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Old June 29th, 2022, 02:11 PM
Paul Keating
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Default [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

My French course offered me the word *fâché* and asked for the
corresponding English. I selected one option from three obvious
possibilities and entered *annoyed,* and was told “No, the correct
translation is *upset.” * Now, at least in my dialect, that is just wrong,
though I have enough nous to grasp that it it's probably okay in AmE. (The
same course tells my wife Janet that *chequebook* is not the correct
English for *chequier:* it can apparently only be *checkbook.*)
From what W3
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Third_New_International_Dictionary>
says, I suspect that *upset* in the sense of "irritated, annoyed, angry" is
a US euphemism that is too recent to have made it into a dictionary
published in 1961, or indeed even into the online Merriam-Webster
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upset>.
This is not a complaint about an otherwise excellent French course. I will
complain (that I am there to learn French, not AmE), but this group is not
the forum for that.
But I would like to have my guess confirmed, modified, nuanced (or
contradicted) by any of my fellow players who know and care enough to
comment.



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  View Parent  #2  
Old June 29th, 2022, 04:27 PM
Shani Naylor
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Default Re: [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

Hi Paul - I've just checked the OED and they have no def for *upset* in
this sense (as an adjective). The closest they have is as a verb: To throw
into mental disorder or discomposure; to trouble or distress.

I had no idea *upset*, in this sense, is a new coinage as it's so common.


On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 7:11 AM Paul Keating <dixonary (AT) boargules (DOT) com> wrote:

> My French course offered me the word *fâché* and asked for the
> corresponding English. I selected one option from three obvious
> possibilities and entered *annoyed,* and was told “No, the correct
> translation is *upset.” * Now, at least in my dialect, that is just
> wrong, though I have enough nous to grasp that it it's probably okay in
> AmE. (The same course tells my wife Janet that *chequebook* is not the
> correct English for *chequier:* it can apparently only be *checkbook.*)
> From what W3
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Third_New_International_Dictionary>
> says, I suspect that *upset* in the sense of "irritated, annoyed, angry"
> is a US euphemism that is too recent to have made it into a dictionary
> published in 1961, or indeed even into the online Merriam-Webster
> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upset>.
> This is not a complaint about an otherwise excellent French course. I will
> complain (that I am there to learn French, not AmE), but this group is not
> the forum for that.
> But I would like to have my guess confirmed, modified, nuanced (or
> contradicted) by any of my fellow players who know and care enough to
> comment.
>
>
>
> --
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> "Dixonary" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to dixonary+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/di...oglegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/dixonary/f21a89c9-09fd-4d2e-bd09-5090aa94bbb2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email& utm_source=footer>
> .
>


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  View Parent  #3  
Old June 30th, 2022, 07:54 AM
John Barrs
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Default Re: [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

Paul

re "upset": I have done a straw poll and *all* my acquaintances in the UK
would primarily go for the state-of-mind of a crossed or wronged person.
While I personally deprecate changes to our language like this, it is
symptomatic of a feely society which concentrates on the personal effects
of an action and I am afraid we have to put up with it if we wish to
continue to communicate to our contemporaries. I continually find that I am
misunderstood because I use a word in its "what I grew up with" meaning...
us old fogeys can probably only really communicate with our coevals
so sympathy, but not agreement

*JohnnyB*

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 at 22:27, Shani Naylor <shani.naylor (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Hi Paul - I've just checked the OED and they have no def for *upset* in
> this sense (as an adjective). The closest they have is as a verb: To
> throw into mental disorder or discomposure; to trouble or distress.
>
> I had no idea *upset*, in this sense, is a new coinage as it's so common..
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 7:11 AM Paul Keating <dixonary (AT) boargules (DOT) com>
> wrote:
>
>> My French course offered me the word *fâché* and asked for the
>> corresponding English. I selected one option from three obvious
>> possibilities and entered *annoyed,* and was told “No, the correct
>> translation is *upset.” * Now, at least in my dialect, that is just
>> wrong, though I have enough nous to grasp that it it's probably okay in
>> AmE. (The same course tells my wife Janet that *chequebook* is not the
>> correct English for *chequier:* it can apparently only be *checkbook.*)
>> From what W3
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster's_Third_New_International_Dictionary>
>> says, I suspect that *upset* in the sense of "irritated, annoyed, angry"
>> is a US euphemism that is too recent to have made it into a dictionary
>> published in 1961, or indeed even into the online Merriam-Webster
>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upset>.
>> This is not a complaint about an otherwise excellent French course. I
>> will complain (that I am there to learn French, not AmE), but this group is
>> not the forum for that.
>> But I would like to have my guess confirmed, modified, nuanced (or
>> contradicted) by any of my fellow players who know and care enough to
>> comment.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Dixonary" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to dixonary+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/di...oglegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/dixonary/f21a89c9-09fd-4d2e-bd09-5090aa94bbb2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email& utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>

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> .
>


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  View Parent  #4  
Old June 30th, 2022, 09:18 AM
Paul Keating
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Default Re: [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

The sense is not in the OED, but that definition was written in 1926 so
absence from there is not an indication. A lot can happen in 100 years, and
the OED3 revisers haven't reached U yet. It's also not in the Collins
(around 2000) which is generally very reliable. It's not in W3 (1961) not
even in the contemporary M-W online.

It looks to me like a euphemistic development of the recorded sense
(physiologically or emotionally disturbed), which is not a far stretch. My
questions are simply 1. Is this as recent as the gaps in the sources
suggest? Your comment suggests the answer is No. And 2. Is the usage
primarily AmE, or is that just a thumbsuck on my part?

P

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  View Parent  #5  
Old June 30th, 2022, 10:00 AM
Efrem Mallach
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Default Re: [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

Paul,

Have you tried asking in a language discussion group, such as (but not limited to) the English Only forum of wordreference.com <http://wordreference.com/>?

Efrem

> On Jun 30, 2022, at 10:18 AM, Paul Keating <keating (AT) acm (DOT) org> wrote:
>
> The sense is not in the OED, but that definition was written in 1926 so absence from there is not an indication. A lot can happen in 100 years, and the OED3 revisers haven't reached U yet. It's also not in the Collins (around 2000) which is generally very reliable. It's not in W3 (1961) not even in the contemporary M-W online.
>
> It looks to me like a euphemistic development of the recorded sense (physiologically or emotionally disturbed), which is not a far stretch. My questions are simply 1. Is this as recent as the gaps in the sources suggest? Your comment suggests the answer is No. And 2. Is the usage primarily AmE, or is that just a thumbsuck on my part?
>
> P
>
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  View Parent  #6  
Old June 30th, 2022, 10:30 AM
Paul Keating
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Default Re: [Dixonary] OT: Semantic field irritated/annoyed/angry versus upset

I recently asked a completely different question on the English Language
site of Stack Exchange. I'm regretting it already, because of the responses
from people who answer the easy question they wished you had asked, and not
the hard one you did ask.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022, 17:00 Efrem Mallach, <efrem.mallach (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Have you tried asking in a language discussion group, such as (but not
> limited to) the English Only forum of wordreference.com?
>
> Efrem
>


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