[Dixonary] BERSEEM defs!

[Dave Cunningham]

Lucky 17 to choose from - just choose two of the most likly r unlikely
definitions before 8 a.m. EDT on Friday 30 September, 2011 without
looking the word up. Thanks.


1. sexy; desirable

2. [OE] maybe; maybe not.

3. dull, bleak, and lifeless

4. _Archaic_ To give birth to.

5. Angry, violent, formidable. [O.N. ber: "bear" and O.N. soemr:
"fitting, seemly"]

6. a ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.

7. a clover.

8. motherly concern

9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco

10. a variety of ash tree, often found with a weeping habit.

11. stone mill worked by hand.

12. To exalt, carry aloft (the soul). _Obs. rare._

13. seamless, without a seam [nonce word: Wycliffe's Bible John 19:23
_now the coat was berseem_; literally _bare of a seam_]

14. The froth formed on the surface of a vat of fermenting beer.

15. a high-tide line

16. an off-white to light-gray clay mineral found in some tropical
soils.

17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.


Dave
DQ, DF

[Dodi Schultz]

I'll try 3 and 17.

—Dodi

[—Keith Hale—]

While voting for 16 & 12 - i want ask: what does "DQ, DF" mean? The
former is probably some or other form of "DisQualified", but i remain
stumped on the latter.

I always thought "ash" was a horrible name for a tree. Kind of like
calling a person "corpse" or "statistic"... no wonder it can't kick
that "weeping habit"!

{*10. a variety of ash tree, often found with a weeping habit. }
> *12. To exalt, carry aloft (the soul). _Obs. rare._
> *16. an off-white to light-gray clay mineral found in some tropical soils.
>
> Dave
> *DQ, DF
>

[Daniel Widdis]

One day, I met a very sexy and desirable young lady. We had a summer
fling, romping in the green fields, and I proposed. She said "maybe;"
then later, "maybe not." I was crushed, and my life became dull, bleak,
and lifeless. Lifeless, until the day my former love gave birth to our
child. Filled with purpose, I tried to visit my child but was repeatedly
spurned by my angry, violent, and formidable ex-lover.

When my quest seemed futile, I climbed to the ledge between the parapet
and the moat, contemplating taking my own life. But on that ledge was a
clover, my love's favorite flower. I took it to her humbly, telling her
where I found it and my wish for the child's best. Filled with motherly
concern, she allowed me to help guide my offspring, putting to rest the
cluster of related dialects she'd been cursing me in.

I decided to contribute the best I knew how. I followed the trail by the
ash trees down to the mill, whereupon I exerted my hardest labor grinding
by hand, then lifting the ground grain aloft in a seamless bag and
carrying it to the brewery and collecting my pay for the day's labor.
From there, it was back to my love's cottage, walking along the beach on
the high tide line, my feet leaving small depressions in the off-white
clay. I left the money purse on the table, bid my child a good night, and
went off to repeat my labor of love the next day, and every next day.

I also cast my votes for 5 and 9, the hardest berseems to fit into this
story.

--
Dan



>
> 5. Angry, violent, formidable. [O.N. ber: "bear" and O.N. soemr:
>"fitting, seemly"]
>
> 9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
>of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco
>
>

[Judy Madnick]

<< 6. a ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.

<< 14. The froth formed on the surface of a vat of fermenting
<< beer.

Judy Madnick

[Dodi Schultz]

Daniel Widdis wrote:

> One day, I met . . .

It was WONDERFUL.

[Dave Cunningham]

<g> You found the sequence!

Dave

On Sep 28, 9:23*pm, Daniel Widdis <wid... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> One day, I met a very sexy and desirable young lady. *We had a summer
> fling, romping in the green fields, and I proposed. *She said "maybe;"
> then later, "maybe not." *I was crushed, and my life became dull, bleak,
> and lifeless. *Lifeless, until the day my former love gave birth to our
> child. *Filled with purpose, I tried to visit my child but was repeatedly
> spurned by my angry, violent, and formidable ex-lover.
>
> When my quest seemed futile, I climbed to the ledge between the parapet
> and the moat, contemplating taking my own life. But on that ledge was a
> clover, my love's favorite flower. *I took it to her humbly, telling her
> where I found it and my wish for the child's best. *Filled with motherly
> concern, she allowed me to help guide my offspring, putting to rest the
> cluster of related dialects she'd been cursing me in.
>
> I decided to contribute the best I knew how. I followed the trail by the
> ash trees down to the mill, whereupon I exerted my hardest labor grinding
> by hand, then lifting the ground grain aloft in a seamless bag and
> carrying it to the brewery and collecting my pay for the day's labor.
> From there, it was back to my love's cottage, walking along the beach on
> the high tide line, my feet leaving small depressions in the off-white
> clay. *I left the money purse on the table, bid my child a good night, and
> went off to repeat my labor of love the next day, and every next day.
>
> I also cast my votes for 5 and 9, the hardest berseems to fit into this
> story.
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> > *5. Angry, violent, formidable. *[O.N. ber: "bear" and O.N. soemr:
> >"fitting, seemly"]
>
> > *9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
> >of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Steve Graham]

Errrr 9 and 17 please

9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco

17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.

"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in pursuit
of the goal"* Friedrich Nietzsche

[John Barrs]

On 29 September 2011 02:03, —Keith Hale— <thoughtstorms (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> i want ask: what does "DQ, DF" mean
>

DF as any brit knows is "defender of the faith" for during the game, "da
dealah is God" and thus responsible for maintaining law and order and
keeping the game safe

(it is FD on all our coins, the Latin _fidei defensor_ as awarded by the
pope to Henry 8th for his anti-reformation writings - that was, of course,
before the pope wouldn't let Henry divorce his (the pope's) neice and thus
we had our own reformation)

JohnnyB

(actually, I don't know what Dave uses DF to mean)

[Guerri Stevens]

I vote for 6 and 17.

Guerri

Dave Cunningham wrote:
>
> 6. a ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.
>
> 17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
> under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.

[Tim B]

2 and 17, please.

Best wishes,
Tim B.

[Millie Morgan]

I thought Dan's tale was so very funny
.... though he clearly has too much time on his hands :)

I'll vote for the nicely connected 4 and 8
> 4. _Archaic_ To give birth to.
> 8. motherly concern


-- Millie

[Dave Cunningham]

"The Once and Future Dealer" of course <g>. I can not believe this
got past Johnny though. Cheers.

Dave


On Sep 29, 5:27*am, John Barrs <johnnyba... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> On 29 September 2011 02:03, —Keith Hale— <thoughtsto... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> > * i want ask: *what does "DQ, DF" mean
>
> *DF as any brit knows is "defender of the faith" for during the game, "da
> dealah is God" and thus responsible for maintaining law and order and
> keeping the game safe
>
> (it is FD on all our coins, the Latin _fidei defensor_ as awarded by the
> pope to Henry 8th for his anti-reformation writings - that was, of course,
> before the pope wouldn't let Henry divorce his (the pope's) neice and thus
> we had our own reformation)
>
> JohnnyB
>
> (actually, I don't know what Dave uses DF to mean)

[France International]

I'll fall for 9 and 17.

[Judy Madnick]

Dan, I think you have too much time on your hands. <G> Good job though!

Judy

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Daniel Widdis" <widdis (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Received: 9/28/2011 9:23:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] BERSEEM defs!


<< One day, I met a very sexy and desirable young lady. We had
<< a summer
<< fling, romping in the green fields, and I proposed. She said
<< "maybe;"
<< then later, "maybe not." I was crushed, and my life became
<< dull, bleak,
<< and lifeless. Lifeless, until the day my former love gave birth to
<< our
<< child. Filled with purpose, I tried to visit my child but was
<< repeatedly
<< spurned by my angry, violent, and formidable ex-lover.

<< When my quest seemed futile, I climbed to the ledge between
<< the parapet
<< and the moat, contemplating taking my own life. But on that
<< ledge was a
<< clover, my love's favorite flower. I took it to her humbly, telling
<< her
<< where I found it and my wish for the child's best. Filled with
<< motherly
<< concern, she allowed me to help guide my offspring, putting to
<< rest the
<< cluster of related dialects she'd been cursing me in.

<< I decided to contribute the best I knew how. I followed the trail
<< by the
<< ash trees down to the mill, whereupon I exerted my hardest
<< labor grinding
<< by hand, then lifting the ground grain aloft in a seamless bag
<< and
<< carrying it to the brewery and collecting my pay for the day's
<< labor.
<< From there, it was back to my love's cottage, walking along the
<< beach on
<< the high tide line, my feet leaving small depressions in the off
<< -white
<< clay. I left the money purse on the table, bid my child a good
<< night, and
<< went off to repeat my labor of love the next day, and every next
<< day.

<< I also cast my votes for 5 and 9, the hardest berseems to fit
<< into this
<< story.

<< --
<< Dan

[—Keith Hale—]

I didn't JUST fall off the turnip truck! It was parsnips, and at
least two weeks ago!
"The Once and Future Dealer" would be TOaFD, or TOFD, or maybe OFD ...
possibly FD.

A guessing war - with the "F" in it - could get ... colourful (or
would that be "off-colourful"?) pretty fast.

Here are a some guesses, in the form of a top 10 list:
#10> Dealer's Friend
# 9> Dracula-Frightened
# 8> Discount Forensics
# 7> Double Frog
# 6> Dreadfully Forward
# 5> Drunk Farmhand
# 4> **Redacted by Homeland Security**
# 3.14159265 (Ï€)> Dave Funningham (possibly DavID Funningham!)
# 3> *NSFW*
# 2> Disarmingly Fragile

and, the # 1 thing "DF" could stand for: DisFrutar
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disfrutar

On 29 September 2011 07:11, Dave Cunningham <cunn5393 (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> wrote:
> "The Once and Future Dealer" of course <g>. Â*I can not believe this
> got past Johnny though. Â*Cheers.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Sep 29, 5:27Â*am, John Barrs <johnnyba... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>> On 29 September 2011 02:03, —Keith Hale— <thoughtsto... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>>
>> > Â* i want ask: Â*what does "DQ, DF" mean
>>
>> Â*DF as any brit knows is "defender of the faith" for during the game, "da
>> dealah is God" and thus responsible for maintaining law and order and
>> keeping the game safe
>>
>> (it is FD on all our coins, the Latin _fidei defensor_ as awarded by the
>> pope to Henry 8th for his anti-reformation writings - that was, of course,
>> before the pope wouldn't let Henry divorce his (the pope's) neice and thus
>> we had our own reformation)
>>
>> JohnnyB
>>
>> (actually, I don't know what Dave uses DF to mean)
>

[Daniel Widdis]

Unless you're in latin. "Rex Quondam, Rex Futurus", except substitute
Dealah for Rex. Because we all know the spelling of "Dealah" with the
"ah" ending is Latin.

Of course, typing "Once and future dealer" into a latin translator yields
"quondam quod posterus paciscor" so one might argue that Q2P2 is a more
appropriate title.

And, for the record, I don't have too much time on my hands. I just needed
a mental break from work. :)

--
Dan




On 9/29/11 8:19 AM, ‹Keith Hale‹ wrote:

>I didn't JUST fall off the turnip truck! It was parsnips, and at
>least two weeks ago!
>"The Once and Future Dealer" would be TOaFD, or TOFD, or maybe OFD ...
>possibly FD.

[France International]

Keith,

Try Latin: (Dealer Quondam, Dealer Futurum.)

--Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "—Keith Hale—" <thoughtstorms (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!


I didn't JUST fall off the turnip truck! It was parsnips, and at
least two weeks ago!
"The Once and Future Dealer" would be TOaFD, or TOFD, or maybe OFD ...
possibly FD.

A guessing war - with the "F" in it - could get ... colourful (or
would that be "off-colourful"?) pretty fast.

Here are a some guesses, in the form of a top 10 list:
#10> Dealer's Friend
# 9> Dracula-Frightened
# 8> Discount Forensics
# 7> Double Frog
# 6> Dreadfully Forward
# 5> Drunk Farmhand
# 4> **Redacted by Homeland Security**
# 3.14159265 (Ï€)> Dave Funningham (possibly DavID Funningham!)
# 3> *NSFW*
# 2> Disarmingly Fragile

and, the # 1 thing "DF" could stand for: DisFrutar
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disfrutar

On 29 September 2011 07:11, Dave Cunningham <cunn5393 (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> wrote:
> "The Once and Future Dealer" of course <g>. I can not believe this
> got past Johnny though. Cheers.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Sep 29, 5:27 am, John Barrs <johnnyba... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>> On 29 September 2011 02:03, —Keith Hale— <thoughtsto... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>>
>> > i want ask: what does "DQ, DF" mean
>>
>> DF as any brit knows is "defender of the faith" for during the game, "da
>> dealah is God" and thus responsible for maintaining law and order and
>> keeping the game safe
>>
>> (it is FD on all our coins, the Latin _fidei defensor_ as awarded by the
>> pope to Henry 8th for his anti-reformation writings - that was, of
>> course,
>> before the pope wouldn't let Henry divorce his (the pope's) neice and
>> thus
>> we had our own reformation)
>>
>> JohnnyB
>>
>> (actually, I don't know what Dave uses DF to mean)
>


-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1809 / Virus Database: 2085/4526 - Release Date: 09/29/11

[Judy Madnick]

<< And, for the record, I don't have too much time on my hands. I
<< just needed
<< a mental break from work. :)

I feel much better. <G>

Judy

[Nancy Shepherdson]

I'll have 8 and 16.

Nancy

[John Barrs]

Darn it, I remember from long ago - now that you remind me - I think I must
have asked before!

HJA RQRF I should really have remembered if not deduced it

JohnnyB

On 29 September 2011 13:11, Dave Cunningham <cunn5393 (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net> wrote:

> "The Once and Future Dealer" of course <g>. I can not believe this
> got past Johnny though. Cheers.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Sep 29, 5:27 am, John Barrs <johnnyba... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > On 29 September 2011 02:03, —Keith Hale— <thoughtsto... (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > i want ask: what does "DQ, DF" mean
> >
> > DF as any brit knows is "defender of the faith" for during the game, "da
> > dealah is God" and thus responsible for maintaining law and order and
> > keeping the game safe
> >
> > (it is FD on all our coins, the Latin _fidei defensor_ as awarded by the
> > pope to Henry 8th for his anti-reformation writings - that was, of
> course,
> > before the pope wouldn't let Henry divorce his (the pope's) neice and
> thus
> > we had our own reformation)
> >
> > JohnnyB
> >
> > (actually, I don't know what Dave uses DF to mean)
>

[Paul Keating]

Vox pop says it's the popular and convincing 17, or as a distant second, 9.
I think both are unconvincing, 17 because of the diction, and 9 just
because.

Since I haven't a clue, I'll have to go for two of Pop's runners-up:

6 and 16.





-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cunningham
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:18 AM
To: Dixonary
Subject: [Dixonary] BERSEEM defs!

Lucky 17 to choose from - just choose two of the most likly r unlikely
definitions before 8 a.m. EDT on Friday 30 September, 2011 without
looking the word up. Thanks.


1. sexy; desirable

2. [OE] maybe; maybe not.

3. dull, bleak, and lifeless

4. _Archaic_ To give birth to.

5. Angry, violent, formidable. [O.N. ber: "bear" and O.N. soemr:
"fitting, seemly"]

6. a ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.

7. a clover.

8. motherly concern

9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco

10. a variety of ash tree, often found with a weeping habit.

11. stone mill worked by hand.

12. To exalt, carry aloft (the soul). _Obs. rare._

13. seamless, without a seam [nonce word: Wycliffe's Bible John 19:23
_now the coat was berseem_; literally _bare of a seam_]

14. The froth formed on the surface of a vat of fermenting beer.

15. a high-tide line

16. an off-white to light-gray clay mineral found in some tropical
soils.

17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.


Dave
DQ, DF

[Toni Savage]

HMMMM.... 4 and 7 are definitely "Roncy-defs", but something pulls me to 17....
*
I'll choose 7 and 17,
*

-- Toni Savage


>________________________________
>From: Dave Cunningham <cunn5393 (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net>
>To: Dixonary <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:18 PM
>Subject: [Dixonary] BERSEEM defs!
>
>Lucky 17 to choose from - just choose two of the most likly r unlikely
>definitions before 8 a.m. EDT on Friday 30 September, 2011 without
>looking the word up..* Thanks.
>
>
>* 1. sexy; desirable
>
>* 2. [OE] maybe; maybe not.
>
>* 3. dull, bleak, and lifeless
>
>* 4. _Archaic_ To give birth to.
>
>* 5. Angry, violent, formidable.* [O.N. ber: "bear" and O.N. soemr:
>"fitting, seemly"]
>
>* 6. a ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.
>
>* 7. a clover.
>
>* 8. motherly concern
>
>* 9. a cluster of related dialects that were once the major language
>of northern Africa west of Egypt; now spoken mostly in Morocco
>
>10. a variety of ash tree, often found with a weeping habit.
>
>11. stone mill worked by hand.
>
>12. To exalt, carry aloft (the soul). _Obs. rare._
>
>13. seamless, without a seam [nonce word: Wycliffe's Bible John 19:23
>_now the coat was berseem_; literally _bare of a seam_]
>
>14. The froth formed on the surface of a vat of fermenting beer.
>
>15. a high-tide line
>
>16. an off-white to light-gray clay mineral found in some tropical
>soils.
>
>17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
>under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.
>
>
>Dave
>* DQ, DF
>
>
>

[EnDash@aol.com]

Numbers 16 and 17 for me, please.

-- Dick Weltz


16. an off-white to light-gray clay mineral found in some tropical
soils.

17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.

[Tony Abell]

I'll go for 2 and 15, just because I like them.

> 2. [OE] maybe; maybe not.

> 15. a high-tide line

[Matthew]

My votes go to:

15. a high-tide line

and

17. (Arab.) a money purse, most often worn tied around the waist
under clothing; now, often, an anonymous donation.

--Matthew Grieco

[Steve Dixon]

I don't like any of these (except for mine) but I will vote for:

#9 - cluster of dialects; and

#14 - vat froth (because it ought to have a name)


steve d

[John Barrs]

Steve

sorry to have been so long but I had to search hard for something my memory
had buried -- re the name for "vat froth"

Eventually: In one of my recipe books occurs the following quote.
"if you find that your beer is too bitter then either use less hops or skim
off the first head, for much of the bitterness is found in the first head or
"corona" which forms"

Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
suitable word for that first violent fermentation

JohnnyB



On 30 September 2011 06:52, Steve Dixon <thejazzmonger (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> I don't like any of these (except for mine) but I will vote for:
>
> #9 - cluster of dialects; and
>
> #14 - vat froth (because it ought to have a name)
>
>
> steve d
>

[Paul Keating]

I love that phrase “something my memory had buried�.

I don’t really have a memory: rather it is something I have heard called a forgettery.

[Tony Abell]

On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:

> Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> suitable word for that first violent fermentation

In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation is
the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as far
as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and always
treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like the
original German (KROY-sen).

[John Barrs]

Tony

I wonder if my recipe book - which dates from 1947 - anglicised the German
becasue that would not have been a popular language in the aftermath of WWII
and the author was an ex-army officer

JohnnyB

On 9 October 2011 20:57, Tony Abell <hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com> wrote:

>
> On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:
>
> > Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> > suitable word for that first violent fermentation
>
> In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation
> is
> the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
> This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as
> far
> as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and
> always
> treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like the
> original German (KROY-sen).
>
>

[thejazzmonger]

See! Humans have been brewing beer since shortly after they began to stand
upright. I knew this was a "thing" that had a name.

Nice one, John.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John Barrs <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Steve
>
> sorry to have been so long but I had to search hard for something my memory
> had buried -- re the name for "vat froth"
>
> Eventually: In one of my recipe books occurs the following quote.
> "if you find that your beer is too bitter then either use less hops or skim
> off the first head, for much of the bitterness is found in the first head or
> "corona" which forms"
>
> Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> suitable word for that first violent fermentation
>
> JohnnyB
>
>
>
> On 30 September 2011 06:52, Steve Dixon <thejazzmonger (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>> I don't like any of these (except for mine) but I will vote for:
>>
>> #9 - cluster of dialects; and
>>
>> #14 - vat froth (because it ought to have a name)
>>
>>
>> steve d
>>
>
>

[Steve Graham]

A crowning achievement indeed.

Thanks, JohnnyB


SDG

-----Original Message-----
From: John Barrs [mailto:johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 12:16 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

Steve

sorry to have been so long but I had to search hard for something my memory had buried -- re the name for "vat froth"

Eventually: In one of my recipe books occurs the following quote.
"if you find that your beer is too bitter then either use less hops or skim off the first head, for much of the bitterness is found in the first head or "corona" which forms"

Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a suitable word for that first violent fermentation

JohnnyB



On 30 September 2011 06:52, Steve Dixon <thejazzmonger (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
I don't like any of these (except for mine) but I will vote for:

#9 - cluster of dialects; and

#14 - vat froth (because it ought to have a name)


steve d

[Paul Keating]

Well, you do know why dogs that are called German Shepherds (Du: duitse herder; G: Deutscher Schäferhund; F: berger allemand; etc) in most languages, are called Alsatians in British English?

From: John Barrs
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:38 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

Tony

I wonder if my recipe book - which dates from 1947 - anglicised the German becasue that would not have been a popular language in the aftermath of WWII and the author was an ex-army officer

JohnnyB


On 9 October 2011 20:57, Tony Abell <hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com> wrote:


On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:

> Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> suitable word for that first violent fermentation


In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation is
the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as far
as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and always
treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like the
original German (KROY-sen).

[Steve Graham]

No I do not - please englighten me! (I'll bite)

(Although German shepherds are called "Deutsche Schäferhunde" (that's the plural) in German and bergers allemands in French)

-----Original Message-----

From: Paul Keating [mailto:pjakeating (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 05:26 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

Well, you do know why dogs that are called German Shepherds (Du: duitse herder; G: Deutscher Schäferhund; F: berger allemand; etc) in most languages, are called Alsatians in British English?

From:John Barrs
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:38 PM
To:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!




Tony

I wonder if my recipe book - which dates from 1947 - anglicised the German becasue that would not have been a popular language in the aftermath of WWII and the author was an ex-army officer

JohnnyB

On 9 October 2011 20:57, Tony Abell <hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com> wrote:

On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:

> Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> suitable word for that first violent fermentation


In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation is
the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as far
as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and always
treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like the
original German (KROY-sen).

[John Barrs]

Paul

the "myth" in my mind is that the pair from which all British dogs are
descended came from Alsace

However, there is an extensive article in wikipaedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsatian_%28dog_breed%29 which has the tone of
authority and which says that they are no longer officially called Alsatians


"The word "Alsatian" still appeared in parentheses as part of the formal
breed name and was only removed in 2010"


JohnnyB


<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsatian_%28dog_breed%29#cite_note-13>
On 10 October 2011 01:26, Paul Keating <pjakeating (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Well, you do know why dogs that are called German Shepherds (Du: duitse
> herder; G: Deutscher Schäferhund; F: berger allemand; etc) in most
> languages, are called *Alsatians* in British English?
>
> *From:* John Barrs <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:38 PM
> *To:* dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> *Subject:* Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!
>
> Tony
>
> I wonder if my recipe book - which dates from 1947 - anglicised the German
> becasue that would not have been a popular language in the aftermath of WWII
> and the author was an ex-army officer
>
> JohnnyB
>
> On 9 October 2011 20:57, Tony Abell <hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:
>>
>> > Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
>> > suitable word for that first violent fermentation
>>
>> In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation
>> is
>> the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
>> This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as
>> far
>> as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and
>> always
>> treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like
>> the
>> original German (KROY-sen).
>>
>>
>

[Steve Graham]

When it comes to doggy things, "official" is relative.

In the UK, the dominant dog registry is called "The Kennel Club" and its web page does indeed use "German Shepherd Dog," which now matches usage of the American Kennel Club. (Sidenote: at least 27 percent of Americans cannot spell "shepherd" correctly.)

When it comes to doggy things, "official" is relative. Most of the world's doggy organizations have joined the Féderacion Cynologique Internationale (FCI), which calls the breed: "Deutscher Schäferhund (166) (German Shepherd Dog)"

Those xenophobic organizations who didn't join are The Kennel Club (UK) the American Kennel Club (US) and the Canadian Kennel Club (Canada)

Anybody care to venture a guess as to how long it will take for "Alsatian" to actually fall out of common use in the UK?

SDG

[Dodi Schultz]

Steve Graham wrote:

> When it comes to doggy things, "official" is relative. Most of the
> world's doggy organizations have joined the Féderacion Cynologique
> Internationale (FCI), which calls the breed: "Deutscher Schäferhund
> (166) (German Shepherd Dog)"

Footnote: Our late player Wayne Scott had such an animal and became
exceedingly annoyed upon hearing anyone refer to his pet simply as a
"German Shepherd". The breed was, he kept reminding us, German Shepherd
*Dog*.

Most of us, of course, continue to call it "German Shepherd".

—Dodi

[Paul Keating]

Because the dogs were re-imported into Britain in 1918-19, and with a devastating war just over, German had negative associations among the British. So the UK Kennel Club renamed the breed Alsatian Wolf Dog. At the time Alsace was regarded as a part of France that had been newly liberated from the German annexation of 1871. So Alsace was a part of Germany that it was okay for the dogs to come from.

It was a highly successful euphemism: I did not encounter the name German Shepherd until my 20s and I don’t think I clearly realized they were the same breed as Alsatians until later. The connection with Alsace also escaped me (as I think it does many BrE speakers). One does not, after all, speak of Alsatian wine, but Alsace wine.

P


From: Steve Graham
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:28 AM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

No I do not - please englighten me! (I'll bite)

(Although German shepherds are called "Deutsche Schäferhunde" (that's the plural) in German and bergers allemands in French)

-----Original Message-----

From: Paul Keating [mailto:pjakeating (AT) gmail (DOT) com]
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 05:26 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

Well, you do know why dogs that are called German Shepherds (Du: duitse herder; G: Deutscher Schäferhund; F: berger allemand; etc) in most languages, are called Alsatians in British English?

From: John Barrs
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:38 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: BERSEEM defs!

Tony

I wonder if my recipe book - which dates from 1947 - anglicised the German becasue that would not have been a popular language in the aftermath of WWII and the author was an ex-army officer

JohnnyB


On 9 October 2011 20:57, Tony Abell <hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com> wrote:


On 2011-10-09 at 15:16 John Barrs wrote:

> Of course, not even the OED has that meaning of corona but I think it a
> suitable word for that first violent fermentation


In fact, the term brewers use for the frothy head of primary fermentation is
the plural German word Kräusen, which derives from the word for "to curl".
This is the word used by brewers (and homebrewers) of all nationalities as far
as I know, and though the spelling is usually anglicized to krausen and always
treated grammatically as a singular, it is pronounced more or less like the
original German (KROY-sen).