Round 2236 new word - yarchagumba

[mshefler]

As I will be away most of Labor Day weekend, the only way this will work is if you email me fake defs of


* * * Y A R C H A G U M B A * * *


No later than 9 PM, EDT, Friday, September 2. Voting will be extended until late on the following Tuesday. Send defs, DQs, etc to stamps@salsgiver.com

[Daniel Widdis]

(Interj.) _Onom._ let's eat cajun food! [fr. pirates in New Orleans]

--
Dan|naD

[Daniel Widdis]

I think we got bit by the tapcisforum messageid bug.

Mike posted the woid and then the rolling scores and then the total scores
a few minutes apart. The forum-to-mail software improperly assigns them
the same message ID (Message-ID:
<mshefler.42m6nxq9v (AT) no-mx (DOT) www.tapcis.com/forums>)

Various clients treat the multiple messages as duplicates and pick
whichever one they want to keep.

Moral of the story: don't post more than one message per hour at
tapcis.com until the bug is fixed (which I thought it was but then it
reverted, probably due to a software update or something).

And I'll repost the defs to the list.

--
Dan




On 9/1/11 7:00 PM, Jim Hart wrote:

>Hmm, I'm reading from the Google groups site and the subject says
>"Round 2236 new word - yarchagumba", but all I see is a message with
>total scores and a Dan|naD from Dan Widdis. The latter impies Dan saw
>the word announcement, so why can't I? One of those pesky subject
>changes perhaps?
>
>Oh wait - the word announcement is in today's email digest. So why not
>on the group site?
>
>Jim
>

[Daniel Widdis]

This is reposted, because the original may have been eaten by your client.

Do not reply to me. Send your defs to mike at the email address listed
below.

--
Dan




On 9/1/11 9:19 AM, mshefler wrote:

>
>As I will be away most of Labor Day weekend, the only way this will work
>is if you email me fake defs of
>
>
>* * * Y A R C H A G U M B A * * *
>
>
>No later than 9 PM, EDT, Friday, September 2. Voting will be extended
>until late on the following Tuesday. Send defs, DQs, etc to
>stamps (AT) salsgiver (DOT) com
>
>
>--
>mshefler

[Dodi Schultz]

Dan Widdis wrote:

> I think we got bit by the tapcisforum messageid bug.
>
> Mike posted the woid and then the rolling scores and then the total scores a few minutes apart. The forum-to-mail software improperly assigns them the same message ID (Message-ID:
> <mshefler.42m6nxq9v (AT) no-mx (DOT) www.tapcis.com/forums>)
>

I'm confused. Isn't it GoogleGroups that distributes stuff to the
players? What does the Tapcis website have to do with it? (I thought it
was just a "mirror".) The Dixonary things I get all come from
"dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com", and that's where this message is going.

BTW, Mike's originals, apparently sent sometime yesterday afternoon,
actually arrived here during the wee hours, intact.

[Daniel Widdis]

Dodi,

Yes, the tapcis.com site is a "mirror". You can think of it like an email
client (Outlook, thunderbird, etc.). It sends and receives from the
googlegroups list just like all of us players. The only difference is
when it sends, it uses the registered email of forum members as the "From"
address.

The other, unfortunate difference is that unlike most email software that
uniquely identifies outgoing messages, the forum software uses a routine
based on the timestamp (in seconds) and it's not when the message is
posted to the forum, but when it's relayed to the list. So if multiple
messages are posted in between times the messages are relayed to the list,
they end up with the same messageid. This is not standard behavior, and
email clients are allowed to do unpredictable things to the received
messages that they rightfully perceive as duplicates.

This isn't usually a problem since only a couple of us ever use the forum,
and among those, only one of us tends to post multiple messages at the
same time (woid, rolling, total scores).

I'm asking the tapcis.com folk to look into this again. We could, of
course, separate the game from the forum but that would be taking away an
option, and the forum actually is better than both GoogleGroups and my own
email software at keeping rounds/votes/OT subjects threaded properly so I
kind of like it.

In the meantime, if you're posting multiple messages at tapcis.com, wait
for your message to appear at googlegroups before you post again. Until
this bug gets fixed (again?).

--
Dan




On 9/2/11 6:35 AM, Dodi Schultz wrote:

>Dan Widdis wrote:
>
>> I think we got bit by the tapcisforum messageid bug.
>>
>> Mike posted the woid and then the rolling scores and then the total
>>scores a few minutes apart. The forum-to-mail software improperly
>>assigns them the same message ID (Message-ID:
>> <mshefler.42m6nxq9v (AT) no-mx (DOT) www.tapcis.com/forums>)
>>
>
>I'm confused. Isn't it GoogleGroups that distributes stuff to the
>players? What does the Tapcis website have to do with it? (I thought it
>was just a "mirror".) The Dixonary things I get all come from
>"dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com", and that's where this message is going.
>
>BTW, Mike's originals, apparently sent sometime yesterday afternoon,
>actually arrived here during the wee hours, intact.

[—Keith Hale—]

That is good to know about tapcis.

One more oddity i get from tapcis-posts is the lack of formatting when
someone (Only mshefler so far?) posts a voting list from there, like
with AMBUBAJAE. I get a big hairball of a post with no carriage
returns at all. But sometimes when people reply to such a post, the
quoted text is 'carriaged out', as with Chris Carson's reply on that
word. (You can see the 'hairball' in my own voting reply of that
round.)

Any thoughts why that happens? (It is the smallest of inconveniences,
i'm mostly just curious.)

On 2 September 2011 11:53, Daniel Widdis <widdis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> Dodi,
>
> Yes, the tapcis.com site is a "mirror". *You can think of it like an email
> client (Outlook, thunderbird, etc.). *It sends and receives from the
> googlegroups list just like all of us players. *The only difference is
> when it sends, it uses the registered email of forum members as the "From"
> address.
>
> The other, unfortunate difference is that unlike most email software that
> uniquely identifies outgoing messages, the forum software uses a routine
> based on the timestamp (in seconds) and it's not when the message is
> posted to the forum, but when it's relayed to the list. *So if multiple
> messages are posted in between times the messages are relayed to the list,
> they end up with the same messageid. *This is not standard behavior, and
> email clients are allowed to do unpredictable things to the received
> messages that they rightfully perceive as duplicates.
>
> This isn't usually a problem since only a couple of us ever use the forum,
> and among those, only one of us tends to post multiple messages at the
> same time (woid, rolling, total scores).
>
> I'm asking the tapcis.com folk to look into this again. *We could, of
> course, separate the game from the forum but that would be taking away an
> option, and the forum actually is better than both GoogleGroups and my own
> email software at keeping rounds/votes/OT subjects threaded properly so I
> kind of like it.
>
> In the meantime, if you're posting multiple messages at tapcis.com, wait
> for your message to appear at googlegroups before you post again. *Until
> this bug gets fixed (again?).
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> On 9/2/11 6:35 AM, Dodi Schultz wrote:
>
>>Dan Widdis wrote:
>>
>>> I think we got bit by the tapcisforum messageid bug.
>>>
>>> Mike posted the woid and then the rolling scores and then the total
>>>scores a few minutes apart. *The forum-to-mail software improperly
>>>assigns them the same message ID (Message-ID:
>>> <mshefler.42m6nxq9v (AT) no-mx (DOT) www.tapcis.com/forums>)
>>>
>>
>>I'm confused. Isn't it GoogleGroups that distributes stuff to the
>>players? What does the Tapcis website have to do with it? (I thought it
>>was just a "mirror".) The Dixonary things I get all come from
>>"dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com", and that's where this message is going.
>>
>>BTW, Mike's originals, apparently sent sometime yesterday afternoon,
>>actually arrived here during the wee hours, intact.
>
>
>

[Daniel Widdis]

I think the hairball has to do with the tapcis forum dragon but I'm not
sure.

(And also the mirroring software which obviously doesn't treat carriage
returns properly... My client (Outlook) seems to play nice with it but
other clients may not.)
--
Dan




On 9/2/11 10:03 AM, ‹Keith Hale‹ wrote:

>That is good to know about tapcis.
>
>One more oddity i get from tapcis-posts is the lack of formatting when
>someone (Only mshefler so far?) posts a voting list from there, like
>with AMBUBAJAE. I get a big hairball of a post with no carriage
>returns at all. But sometimes when people reply to such a post, the
>quoted text is 'carriaged out', as with Chris Carson's reply on that
>word. (You can see the 'hairball' in my own voting reply of that
>round.)
>
>Any thoughts why that happens? (It is the smallest of inconveniences,
>i'm mostly just curious.)
>
>On 2 September 2011 11:53, Daniel Widdis <widdis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>> Dodi,
>>
>> Yes, the tapcis.com site is a "mirror". You can think of it like an
>>email
>> client (Outlook, thunderbird, etc.). It sends and receives from the
>> googlegroups list just like all of us players. The only difference is
>> when it sends, it uses the registered email of forum members as the
>>"From"
>> address.
>>
>> The other, unfortunate difference is that unlike most email software
>>that
>> uniquely identifies outgoing messages, the forum software uses a routine
>> based on the timestamp (in seconds) and it's not when the message is
>> posted to the forum, but when it's relayed to the list. So if multiple
>> messages are posted in between times the messages are relayed to the
>>list,
>> they end up with the same messageid. This is not standard behavior, and
>> email clients are allowed to do unpredictable things to the received
>> messages that they rightfully perceive as duplicates.
>>
>> This isn't usually a problem since only a couple of us ever use the
>>forum,
>> and among those, only one of us tends to post multiple messages at the
>> same time (woid, rolling, total scores).
>>
>> I'm asking the tapcis.com folk to look into this again. We could, of
>> course, separate the game from the forum but that would be taking away
>>an
>> option, and the forum actually is better than both GoogleGroups and my
>>own
>> email software at keeping rounds/votes/OT subjects threaded properly so
>>I
>> kind of like it.
>>
>> In the meantime, if you're posting multiple messages at tapcis.com, wait
>> for your message to appear at googlegroups before you post again. Until
>> this bug gets fixed (again?).
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/11 6:35 AM, Dodi Schultz wrote:
>>
>>>Dan Widdis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think we got bit by the tapcisforum messageid bug.
>>>>
>>>> Mike posted the woid and then the rolling scores and then the total
>>>>scores a few minutes apart. The forum-to-mail software improperly
>>>>assigns them the same message ID (Message-ID:
>>>> <mshefler.42m6nxq9v (AT) no-mx (DOT) www.tapcis.com/forums>)
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm confused. Isn't it GoogleGroups that distributes stuff to the
>>>players? What does the Tapcis website have to do with it? (I thought it
>>>was just a "mirror".) The Dixonary things I get all come from
>>>"dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com", and that's where this message is going.
>>>
>>>BTW, Mike's originals, apparently sent sometime yesterday afternoon,
>>>actually arrived here during the wee hours, intact.
>>
>>
>>

[Dodi Schultz]

Daniel Widdis wrote:
> In the meantime, if you're posting multiple messages at tapcis.com, wait for your message to appear at googlegroups before you post again. Until this bug gets fixed (again?).
>

I send and receive everything by e-mail; I don't ever go to tapcis.com.
I think, IIRC, that the last time there was a survey, most group members
said that's what they do.

[Daniel Widdis]

In which case, you play like normal and hope anyone posting at tapcis.com
(there are only about 3, I think) follow these instructions!

--
Dan




On 9/2/11 3:21 PM, Dodi Schultz wrote:

>Daniel Widdis wrote:
>> In the meantime, if you're posting multiple messages at tapcis.com,
>>wait for your message to appear at googlegroups before you post again.
>>Until this bug gets fixed (again?).
>>
>
>I send and receive everything by e-mail; I don't ever go to tapcis.com.
>I think, IIRC, that the last time there was a survey, most group members
>said that's what they do.
>

[Paul Keating]

Mike posted on tapcis.com and it forwarded his messages to Google, not the
other way around, and a bug in the vBulletin software at tapcis.com has
everything to do with it.

Among the headers of every email is tag called message id. The RFC says the
tag may not be omitted without a good reason, and, if it is present, the id
must be unique. Some software, such as Google Groups, relies on the ids
being unique, because it uses them for threading, and treats two messages
with the same id as duplicates. Software that doesn't bother with threading,
such as Windows mail clients, does not care about duplicates.

VBulletin generates its message id based on the time of day, but uses a
clock of very coarse resolution, and if the same user posts two messages
less than an hour apart, those messages get the same id. This is not only
contrary to the standard, but inexplicably wrong, because generating a
unique number is very easy.

So Google Groups is not at fault, vBulletin is.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dodi Schultz
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 3:35 PM
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: Round 2236 new word - yarchagumba

I'm confused. Isn't it GoogleGroups that distributes stuff to the
players? What does the Tapcis website have to do with it? (I thought it
was just a "mirror".)