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Guerri Stevens
June 23rd, 2011, 07:46 PM
Who are the managers of this site? I ask because I have one of the tapcis.com Email addresses. This Email is now hosted by Google, and without going into my long rant on the subject, Google is making some changes. The tapcis.com Email addresses are considered to be "organizational" or more accurately, "Google Apps" addresses. They are not private, but are owned by tapcis.com. And it is tapcis.com that determines how they may be used.

In my case, what I care about is that apparently the tapcis.com Email address may not be used to join a Google group, which is what I'd like to do with mine. I believe it is a legitimate use, but the tapcis.com management has to do something to permit it.

I sent a private message here to Judy Russell, but I don't think she's checked in lately.

-- Guerri

sidney
June 27th, 2011, 07:56 AM
Guerri, I am not the manager of the site, but as I helped move Tapcis.com to Google Apps I still have admin privileges for the Google Apps setup.

Here is a hint I found on how to subscribe to a Google Group using your Google Apps email address. If this trick no longer works since the recent changes, let me know and I'll try to find the setting that you are talking about. Or if you have a link to information on what that setting is that a Google Apps administrator can use to enable it for the domain, then please let me know and I can take care of it.

It at least used to be true that you can join a Google Group named, for example "groupname" using your Google Apps mail ID "myname@example.com" by going to the URL

http://groups.google.com/group/groupname/boxsubscribe?email=myname@example.com

Dan in Saint Louis
June 27th, 2011, 09:54 AM
It at least used to be true that you can join a Google Group named, for example "groupname" using your Google Apps mail ID "myname@example.com" by going to the URL

http://groups.google.com/group/groupname/boxsubscribe?email=myname@example.com
I wonder if this is the policy that is making my wife's email and Google Group accounts go all wonky? The college at which she teaches uses Google Mail customized to reflect their own domain name (xxx@slu.edu) and they recently sent her a message that some functions would have be split from that account since they did not appear to be university-related.

Since I own the Google Group in question I was able to subscribe her at an alternate address (xxx@landiss.com), but the explanation that Google and the university provided was unintelligible to mere humans.

Mike
June 28th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Google recently changed the architecture for Apps users. The biggest change visible to most people is that mail users now can log in from the standard Gmail login screen, instead of having to go to the customized URL.

I just poked around in my Apps account, and maybe I found what needs to be toggled.

From domain management, choose Organization and Users.

In the lower section, choose the Services tab.

Below the Core Google Apps Suite is a long list of other services, one of which should be Google Groups. In my Google Apps domain, it already was on, but in the Tapcis domain, it might be turned off.

More details about the changes at Google's end (http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/static.py?page=guide.cs&guide=29934&topic=29936).

Guerri Stevens
June 28th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Guerri, I am not the manager of the site, but as I helped move Tapcis.com to Google Apps I still have admin privileges for the Google Apps setup.

Here is a hint I found on how to subscribe to a Google Group using your Google Apps email address. If this trick no longer works since the recent changes, let me know and I'll try to find the setting that you are talking about. Or if you have a link to information on what that setting is that a Google Apps administrator can use to enable it for the domain, then please let me know and I can take care of it.

It at least used to be true that you can join a Google Group named, for example "groupname" using your Google Apps mail ID "myname@example.com" by going to the URL

http://groups.google.com/group/groupname/boxsubscribe?email=myname@example.com
Well, it is not any longer true that you can join with myname@tapcis.com. I don't know whether it ever was true.

Originally the tapcis.com Email was hosted by GoDaddy and so would not have been considered a Google Apps name. In short, the chronology in my case is that the Dixonary game was once played in a Yahoo group. When the players started having problems with Yahoo, the game moved to a Google group, and the moderators set everyone up as they had been set up in the Yahoo group. At least that's how I remember it. At that point GoDaddy was still the host of tapcis.com Email so it would have been assumed to be a personal Email address as opposed to an organizational address (or Google Apps) if such things existed then.

Once the tapcis.com Email moved to Google, everything still seemed OK as far as I could tell. I mostly played the game by Email, but occasionally would go directly to the group and until recently I would log in with my tapcis.com Email and have no problems. Suddenly when I tried to go directly into the Dixonary Google group, I got a message that my "personal" tapcis.com Email address was identical to an organizational Email address and it was not legitimate to have two identical addresses. Ultimately I was able to delete the "personal" address. I created a new Google Email account in case it became necessary to give up on the tapcis.com Email and joined the group using that address.

When I tried to join the group with my tapcis.com Email address I get a message that the owner of the tapcis.com organizational (i.e. Google Apps) account doesn't permit joining a group and if I think that's an error, talk to the domain administrator or some such term. I sent a private forum message to Judy thinking she was the one to ask, but she has evidently not been here recently.

Guerri Stevens
June 28th, 2011, 07:55 PM
I wonder if this is the policy that is making my wife's email and Google Group accounts go all wonky? The college at which she teaches uses Google Mail customized to reflect their own domain name (xxx@slu.edu) and they recently sent her a message that some functions would have be split from that account since they did not appear to be university-related.

Since I own the Google Group in question I was able to subscribe her at an alternate address (xxx@landiss.com), but the explanation that Google and the university provided was unintelligible to mere humans.
That probably is the reason for the wonkiness. I don't know what the terms of the Google organizational accounts are. Assuming the organizational accounts are not free, it would make sense for the college to insist that they be used only for college-related stuff. It would also make sense to me, if I had such an account, not to use it for anything personal. Google points out that the owner of the account has access to your Email. Off the topic, but in this day and age, I would be very careful not to use any business-provided Email account for ANYTHING personal.

Another thing that I *think* has changed with Google is that apparently you MUST have a Google account in order to join a Google group. I guess that is not strictly correct - you were able to add your wife with a non-Google address. But if I go the the Dixonary group and I presume other groups, and I say I want to join or subscribe whatever they call it, Google takes me to a log-in screen identical to the Gmail log-in screen and gives me a link to get a Google account if I don't have one. So maybe the group owner can accept people without Google accounts, but a non-Google account holder cannot simply join.

-- Guerri

Dan in Saint Louis
June 28th, 2011, 09:43 PM
Another thing that I *think* has changed with Google is that apparently you MUST have a Google account in order to join a Google group. I guess that is not strictly correct - you were able to add your wife with a non-Google address. But if I go the the Dixonary group and I presume other groups, and I say I want to join or subscribe whatever they call it, Google takes me to a log-in screen identical to the Gmail log-in screen and gives me a link to get a Google account if I don't have one. So maybe the group owner can accept people without Google accounts, but a non-Google account holder cannot simply join.
Guerri, the clue here is that there is a difference between a "Gmail address" and a "Google account."

You can have direct email sent to you from a Google Group to any address without having a Google Account. You need a Google Account to have full Group privileges such as reading discussions on the Web. Neither one requires a Gmail address.

sidney
June 29th, 2011, 04:09 AM
if I think that's an error, talk to the domain administrator or some such term

I think I'm still listed as a domain administrator. I'll see if I can get find where the setting is to allow joining Google groups.

[update] Try it now. If it still doesn't work I think I know where to look for an additional setting that might be needed.

Guerri Stevens
June 29th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Guerri, the clue here is that there is a difference between a "Gmail address" and a "Google account."

You can have direct email sent to you from a Google Group to any address without having a Google Account. You need a Google Account to have full Group privileges such as reading discussions on the Web. Neither one requires a Gmail address.
You can read discussions in the Dixonary group without having a Google account. That may be something that can be turned on or off by the group's owners, though, and not applicable to all groups. I don't think you can post without being a member of the group, though, and logging in.

Guerri Stevens
June 29th, 2011, 09:12 PM
I think I'm still listed as a domain administrator. I'll see if I can get find where the setting is to allow joining Google groups.

[update] Try it now. If it still doesn't work I think I know where to look for an additional setting that might be needed.
I tried it and it seemed to work. But - and Dan may be interested in this: the screen for joining says "Sign in with your Google Account". Below that is a line for Email and below that a line for Password. I considered experimenting with a non-Google Email address, but decided against trying that.

Once you enter the Email address and password, the next screen says, in part, "anyone can post, people can request invitation to join, anyone can read". I didn't think non-members could post, but maybe they can. Which would explain the spam that appears from time to time.

Dan in Saint Louis
June 30th, 2011, 10:56 AM
the screen for joining says "Sign in with your Google Account". Below that is a line for Email and below that a line for Password. I considered experimenting with a non-Google Email address, but decided against trying that
I own five Google Groups and all are invisible to non-members. The subscribers are a mix of Gmail users and those with non-G mail domains. They work equally well.

"Google Account" uses an email address as an identifier, but it does not have to be Gmail.

Guerri Stevens
July 3rd, 2011, 05:37 AM
I own five Google Groups and all are invisible to non-members. The subscribers are a mix of Gmail users and those with non-G mail domains. They work equally well.

"Google Account" uses an email address as an identifier, but it does not have to be Gmail.
I don't own or participate in managing any Google groups, so don't know anything about how they are managed. I am pretty sure the Dixonary group is visible to non members. I think a change was made at one point so that it would be visible, but would remain a private group. Our numbers were shrinking, and the hope was that we'd attract some new members.