[Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

[Tony Abell]

It's a few hours after the deadline with no additional votes, so I present the
results forthwith. Paul Keating is the next dealer with his typically clever
Stellenbosch University etymology, which earned him 6 unnatural points. Dick
Weltz is the real winner with 5 unnatural points. Three players guessed the real
definition, not counting John Barrs, who knows his herring and was DQ.

Take it away, Paul!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. A traditional Sikkim woman's garment, with a pouch for carrying a baby
built into the upper back, and a large hood that covers both baby's and
wearer's heads for warmth.
Voted for by Scott Crom
SOURCE: Millie Morgan, who voted 9 and 19, and scores 1 + 0 = 1

2. An atmosphere of social harmony.
Voted for by nobody
SOURCE: Scott Crom, who voted 1 and 12, and scores 0 + 0 = 0

3. An artistic papier-mâché creation that incorporates stones, weathered
glass, feathers, dried blossoms, or other small objects.
Voted for by Dodi Schultz, Dan Widdis, Chris Carson
SOURCE: Guerri Stevens, who voted 7 and 12, and scores 3 + 0 = 3

4. A soft cheese made from curds.
Voted for by nobody
SOURCE: Chris Carson, who voted 3 and 18, and scores 0 + 0 = 0

5. [Gael.] A female wood sprite.
Voted for by Tim Lodge, Judy Madnick, Toni Savage, Nancy Shepherdson
SOURCE: Chuck Emery, who didn't vote, and scores 4 + 0 = 4

6. A fat herring with undeveloped roe.
Voted for by Paul Keating, Dick Weltz, Judy Madnick
SOURCE: Webster's 1913 Dictionary, which cannot vote, and scores D3

7. A rich Brazilian coffee sweetened with sugar cane.
Voted for by Dave Cunningham, Dodi Schultz, Guerri Stevens
SOURCE: Mike Shefler, who voted 8 and 19, and scores 3 + 0 = 3

8. A fermented beverage made from succulent plants native to areas of Southern
Africa, Australia, and Madagascar.
Voted for by Matthew Grieco, Dave Cunningham, Mike Shefler
SOURCE: Dick Weltz, who voted *6* and 9, and scores 3 + 2 = 5*

9. A student or alumnus of Stellenbosch University, S. Afr. [prob. abbrev. of
Afk. _tamatie_ tomato, alluding to the color of Stellenbosch University's
rugby jersey]
Voted for by Millie Morgan, Paul Keating, Dick Weltz, Dan Widdis, Toni
Savage
SOURCE: Paul Keating, who voted *6* and 9, and scores 4 + 2 = 6*

10. A large artificial earthen mound with a flattened top, on which the Normans
built castles.
Voted for by nobody
SOURCE: John Barrs, who is DQ, and scores 0 + 0 = 0

11. _Archit._ A narrow frieze having doubly or triply crenated borders.
Voted for by nobody
SOURCE: Dodi Schultz, who voted 3 and 7, and scores 0 + 0 = 0

12. A flat, wooden Polynesian club, carried as a symbol of royal authority.
Voted for by Scott Crom, Guerri Stevens
SOURCE: Matthew Grieco, who voted 8 and 17, and scores 2 + 0 = 2

13. A monetary unit of Thailand worth one hundredth of a baht.
Voted for by Nancy Shepherdson
SOURCE: Toni Savage, who voted 5 and 9, and scores 1 + 0 = 1

14. A musical device used to give a note for tuning instruments or giving an
initial note for an a capella group.
Voted for by nobody
SOURCE: Tim Bourne, who voted 15 and 17, and scores 0 + 0 = 0

15. A common intoxicant in South America.
Voted for by Tim Bourne
SOURCE: Dave Cunningham, who voted 7 and 8, and scores 1 + 0 = 1

16. A category of supernatural creature distinguished from fairies and certain
halflings.
Voted for by Tim Lodge
SOURCE: Dan Widdis, who voted 3 and 9, and scores 1 + 0 = 1

17. [Creole Fr.] Half.
Voted for by Matthew Grieco, Tim Bourne
SOURCE: Tim Lodge, who voted 5 and 16, and scores 2 + 0 = 2

18. A pile of rubble or garbage.
Voted for by Chris Carson
SOURCE: Nancy Shepherdson, who voted 5 and 13, and scores 1 + 0 = 1

19. An abyss; an insatiable person.
Voted for by Millie Morgan, Mike Shefler
SOURCE: Judy Madnick, who voted 5 and *6*, and scores 2 + 2 = 4*

SUMMARY

Player Def# Voted for Points, N+U=T
------------------------------ ---- ----------- ---------------
Barrs ........................ 10 DQ 0 + 0 = 0
Bourne ....................... 14 15 & 17 0 + 0 = 0
Carson ....................... 4 3 & 18 0 + 0 = 0
Crom ......................... 2 1 & 12 0 + 0 = 0
Cunningham ................... 15 7 & 8 1 + 0 = 1
Emery ........................ 5 N/V 4 + 0 = 4
Grieco ....................... 12 8 & 17 2 + 0 = 2
Keating ...................... 9 *6* & 9 4 + 2 = 6
Lodge ........................ 17 5 & 16 2 + 0 = 2
Madnick ...................... 19 5 & *6* 2 + 2 = 4
Morgan ....................... 1 9 & 19 1 + 0 = 1
Savage ....................... 13 5 & 9 1 + 0 = 1
Schultz ...................... 11 3 & 7 0 + 0 = 0
Shefler ...................... 7 8 & 19 3 + 0 = 3
Shepherdson .................. 18 5 & 13 1 + 0 = 1
Stevens ...................... 3 7 & 12 3 + 0 = 3
Webster's 1913 ............... 6 N/A D3
Weltz ........................ 8 *6* & 9 3 + 2 = 5
Widdis ....................... 16 3 & 9 1 + 0 = 1

[EnDash@aol.com]

I am a little confused. After voting, I looked MATIE up on the Web and got
this definition, which matches Paul's:

Matie [ˈmɑ�tɪ]
n
(Social Science / Education) South African informal a student at the
University of Stellenbosch, esp one representing the University in a sport
[perhaps from Afrikaans tamatie tomato, from the red colour of the rugby
jersey]


_Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged_
(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English) © HarperCollins
Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
_http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Matie_ (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Matie)
My online Collins confirms this,but you can't cut and paste from heir
site.
Is it possible that the word has two legitimate but unrelated meanings,
one the herring, and the other the Stellenbosch student?
-- Dick



In a message dated 6/11/2010 10:15:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com writes:

It's a few hours after the deadline with no additional votes, so I present
the
results forthwith. Paul Keating is the next dealer with his typically
clever
Stellenbosch University etymology, which earned him 6 unnatural points.
Dick
Weltz is the real winner with 5 unnatural points. Three players guessed
the real
definition, not counting John Barrs, who knows his herring and was DQ.

[Judy Madnick]

From: EnDash (AT) aol (DOT) com


<< I am a little confused. After voting, I looked MATIE up on the
<< Web and got
<< this definition, which matches Paul's:
<<
<< Matie [ˈmɑ�tɪ]
<< n
<< (Social Science / Education) South African informal a student
<< at the
<< University of Stellenbosch, esp one representing the
<< University in a sport
<< [perhaps from Afrikaans tamatie tomato, from the red colour
<< of the rugby
<< jersey]

I saw that definition also (after I voted) -- and immediately stopped searching, assuming that I had not selected the correct definition. I just searched again, and further down the results' list was the "herring" definition...which I *did* choose!

<< Is it possible that the word has two legitimate but unrelated
<< meanings,
<< one the herring, and the other the Stellenbosch student?

It seems that way.

Judy

[Dodi Schultz]

Dick Weltz writes:

> I am a little confused. After voting, I looked MATIE up on the Web and
> got this definition, which matches Paul's:
>
> *Matie* [Ë^mÉ'Ë?tɪ]
> /n/
> (Social Science / Education) /South African/ /informal/ a student at
> the University of Stellenbosch, esp one representing the University in
> a sport
> [perhaps from Afrikaans /tamatie/ tomato, from the red colour of the
> rugby jersey]
>
> Collins English Dictionary âEUR" Complete and Unabridged
> <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English>
> © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Matie
>
> My online Collins confirms this,but you can't cut and paste from heir
> site.
>
> Is it possible that the word has *two* legitimate but unrelated
> meanings, one the herring, and the other the Stellenbosch student?
>

I was just about to post a similar message! I had looked it up after I
voted and, like Dick, found the Collins definition and so assumed that
#9 was the real def. I don't think this has ever happened before, has
it? Should those who voted for #9 also get points for singling out the
real def? I'm also curious as to how Paul came up with a def identical
to the real one in Collins.

We no longer have a Rules Mother, but would one of the Original Players
like to comment?

--Dodi

[JohnnyB]

Dodi and others

(I thought Toni had been appointed as "Rules Mother" - Having dealt Round 4, she qualifies as one of the longest serving members)

Something similar happened just after I had started with the word guyot (1547) where I DQ'd because I know it as a method of pruning vines. When it wasn't that I asked about multiple meanings and was told "da dealah is god" covers the situation. Subsequently I played a relatively common word (I don't remember which one, maybe "hooding") and eliminated two or three meanings in my round announcement and - as far as I was concerned - played "da dealah is god" and accepted only the definition that I had chosen to apply as a "correct guess". I was thoroughly told-off by some for causing confusion for using a word with too many meanings. Others reminded us all that it is only a game

Johnny(look, no 's')B

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Dodi Schultz
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:16 PM
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results
>
> Dick Weltz writes:
>
>
>
>
> I am a little confused. After voting, I looked MATIE up
> on the Web and got this definition, which matches Paul's:
>
> Matie [ˈmɑ�tɪ]
> n
> (Social Science / Education) South African informal a
> student at the University of Stellenbosch, esp one
> representing the University in a sport
> [perhaps from Afrikaans tamatie tomato, from the red
> colour of the rugby jersey]
>
> Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged
> <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts
> .aspx?English> © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998,
> 2000, 2003 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Matie
>
> My online Collins confirms this,but you can't cut and
> paste from heir site.
>
> Is it possible that the word has two legitimate but
> unrelated meanings, one the herring, and the other the
> Stellenbosch student?
>
>
> I was just about to post a similar message! I had looked it
> up after I voted and, like Dick, found the Collins definition
> and so assumed that #9 was the real def. I don't think this
> has ever happened before, has it? Should those who voted for
> #9 also get points for singling out the real def? I'm also
> curious as to how Paul came up with a def identical to the
> real one in Collins.
>
> We no longer have a Rules Mother, but would one of the
> Original Players like to comment?
>
> --Dodi
>
>
>
>
>

[Judy Madnick]

From: JohnnyB <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

<< Something similar happened just after I had started with the
<< word guyot (1547) where I DQ'd because I know it as a
<< method of pruning vines. When it wasn't that I asked about
<< multiple meanings and was told "da dealah is god" covers the
<< situation.

I usually do a search for the word I choose as dealer to see whether there are multiple meanings. That doesn't mean I might not overlook an obscure meaning, but it's worth a try!

Judy

[Christopher Carson]

I can't claim seniority on Toni, but having survived something like 1700
rounds and first dealing round 315, I'm moved to comment. The question
multiple meanings comes up now and then and I'm not sure it has ever been
satisfactorily answered - at least not codified if it has. Fortunately, the
instance comes up only seldom. My own practice on multiple meanings is to
avoid words that are reasonably common but have an uncommon meaning. For
instance, I wouldn't deal 'farce' even though it might be tempting to use
it's somewhat uncommon definition, "to stuff, as for roasting". In my view
there would be too much confusion with the more common meanings. However,
when I encounter a truly obscure word, I might only use one of the
definitions provided by the dictionary. An example might be 'eadi' which
the dictionary defines as "Obs. 1. Rich, wealthy, luxurious 2. Happy,
fortunate, well-omened." When I dealt the word, I seem to recall that I
chose only one of the definitions for simplicity's sake. Of course a word's
obscurity is in the eye of the dealer, but I think it's easy enough to make
a reasonable judgement, given the nature of the game and knowledge of the
players. I agree with the 'dealer as God' approach but feel that there
should be some judgement applied.

As far as 'MATIE' is concerned, I think that's almost a special case. When
I choose a word for my dealing list, I generally use only one source - most
often the OED 2nd. I don't usually go afield and check multiple
dictionaries to see if there are additional meanings. I would think that
the 'student of Stellenbosch' definition is a narrow, rather specialized
piece of slang or jargon limited to a specific region. As such, it's not
surprising to me at all that Tony probably wasn't aware of it. It did make
things confusing for those of us who looked it up after voting though. I'm
not sure I would have submitted a real, but obscure definition for my fake
def submittal but I don't think doing so violates any rule, written or
unwritten. That said, it would seem to be a very, very rare situation that
probably isn't worth a lot of fuss. After all, to quote one of the original
players (as well as Johnny), "it's only a game." It's easy to lose sight of
that basic principle sometimes.

Chris


--------------------------------------------------
From: "JohnnyB" <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:49 PM
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Subject: RE: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

> Dodi and others
>
> (I thought Toni had been appointed as "Rules Mother" - Having dealt Round
> 4, she qualifies as one of the longest serving members)
>
> Something similar happened just after I had started with the word guyot
> (1547) where I DQ'd because I know it as a method of pruning vines. When
> it wasn't that I asked about multiple meanings and was told "da dealah is
> god" covers the situation. Subsequently I played a relatively common word
> (I don't remember which one, maybe "hooding") and eliminated two or three
> meanings in my round announcement and - as far as I was concerned - played
> "da dealah is god" and accepted only the definition that I had chosen to
> apply as a "correct guess". I was thoroughly told-off by some for causing
> confusion for using a word with too many meanings. Others reminded us all
> that it is only a game
>
> Johnny(look, no 's')B
>

[Tony Abell]

On 2010-06-11 at 14:02 Judy Madnick wrote:

> I usually do a search for the word I choose as dealer to see whether there are
> multiple meanings. That doesn't mean I might not overlook an obscure meaning,
> but it's worth a try!

I always do a search on a word, too, but I do it only to insure that the word is
sufficiently obscure. So I'm only interested in how many hits there are and
whether the top hits are uses of the word in a non-dictionary context. The first
page of matie hits had mostly proper name references, as I recall. So I wasn't
aware of the multiple definitions.

What I'm eager to know is how Paul arrived at his "fake" definition. He always
likes to do an elaborate etymology, but this time he exceeded himself, unless he
knew the Stellenbosch meaning beforehand.

[EnDash@aol.com]

That is what puzzles me, too. Paul?


In a message dated 6/11/2010 2:53:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hello (AT) isanybodyhome (DOT) com writes:

What I'm eager to know is how Paul arrived at his "fake" definition. He
always
likes to do an elaborate etymology, but this time he exceeded himself,
unless he
knew the Stellenbosch meaning beforehand.

[Dave Cunningham]

Precedent prevails - the def the dealer had in mind is the correct answer - no matter wgat other defs are out there.


Dave

[Paul Keating]

The word as posted does not have "two legitimate but unrelated meanings". Matie in the sense of Stellenbosch student is always, always spelt with a capital. The posting explicitly said that the word for which definitions were called was not capitalized in running text.

Since the World Cup starts this week, I thought a South African def would be appropriate. And I know from experience that most players pay little attention to that note on capitalization. And soI relied on this in presenting for the proposed word matie a real definition for what I was sure was the quite different South African word Matie: it wasn't conceivable that Tony's source would have failed to mention capitalization, and so I knew that his dictionary definition, whatever it turned out to be, was going to be very far away from Stellenbosch.

And I was right: it turned out to be the North Sea; which I guessed by taking a punt on the Dutch word maatjesharing. Don't ask me where I know that from: as an immigrant in Holland I always have a Dutch dictionary open on my desktop both at home and at work that I browse in spare moments. I suspect I might have been looking for words that end in -ing that aren't feminine, which is what the rule of thumb says. (It's masculine, even if the fish is female.)

It's true that I did come pretty close to the Collins Online and DSAE definitions out of my head, but you all know I can sound very like a real dictionary when I try. Though I missed the reference to sport, which I shouldn't have (rats!).

Even the ety sounds like the Collins; but Collins got theirs from the DSAE; and I was at Rhodes University where the DSAE was compiled, and it's even remotely possible, though unlikely, that I saw that ety on a 8x5 card once. On the other hand, it is very probable that I personally knew the Dictionary Unit staffer who wrote it.

In any case, it's something that any South African undergraduate in my day was likely to know. Though, for as long as I've known it, that rugby jersey has been a handsome burgundy with gold trim. Maybe it was a brighter red in the 1890s when the word was coined. Or maybe they were thinking of ketchup.

I didn't check a dictionary for a genuine def for Matie because, obviously, I could hardly have avoided seeing matie if it had been there. But as it turned out, I didn't need to.

Since the DSAE is a dead-tree dictionary that none of you are likely to have, its article is below, verbatim, but minus 6 column centimetres of citations and with the not very interesting pronunciation omitted because of font issues.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague

Matie n. Formerly also Maatie. [Prob. abbrev. of Afk. tamatie tomato, alluding to the colour of Stellenbosch University's rugby jersey.]
1.a. A student or alumnus of Stellenbosch University, Western Cape; esp., a member of this university's rugby team. b. Often in pl., used collectively: Stellenbosch University. Also attrib.
2. comb. Matieland, Stellenbosch University; the town of Stellenbosch.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dodi Schultz
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

I was just about to post a similar message! I had looked it up after I voted and, like Dick, found the Collins definition and so assumed that #9 was the real def. I don't think this has ever happened before, has it? Should those who voted for #9 also get points for singling out the real def? I'm also curious as to how Paul came up with a def identical to the real one in Collins.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Abell
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

What I'm eager to know is how Paul arrived at his "fake" definition. He always
likes to do an elaborate etymology, but this time he exceeded himself, unless he
knew the Stellenbosch meaning beforehand.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Weltzl
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

That is what puzzles me, too. Paul?

[Toni Savage]

Yeah...Â*"multiple meanings" has comeÂ*up before, though I can't remember a situation where the meanings were quite SO unrelated!

As has been pointed out, the definition selected by the dealer is the "right" one.Â*

It is REALLY frowned upon to deliberately pick a word with multiple defs and then say, "it is NOT the defintionÂ*[give common defiintion], but a different one," however.

I've come across some really GREATÂ*"secondary" defintions, but... that's a different game.
Â*
-- Toni (who coincidentally just went to see "The Colbert Report" with the REAL Rules Mother who was visiting NY!!)
Â*
Â*



----- Original Message ----
From: JohnnyB <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Sent: Fri, June 11, 2010 12:49:35 PM
Subject: RE: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

Dodi and others

(I thought Toni had been appointed as "Rules Mother" - Having dealt Round 4, she qualifies as one of the longest serving members)

Something similar happened just after I had started with the word guyot (1547) where I DQ'd because I know it as a method of pruning vines. When it wasn't that I asked about multiple meanings and was told "da dealah is god" covers the situation. Subsequently I played a relatively common word (I don't remember which one,Â* maybe "hooding") and eliminated two or three meanings in my round announcement and - as far as I was concerned - playedÂ* "da dealah is god" and accepted only the definition that I had chosen to apply as a "correct guess". I was thoroughly told-off by some for causing confusion for using a word with too many meanings. Others reminded us all that it is only a game

Johnny(look, no 's')B

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Dodi Schultz
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:16 PM
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results
>
> Dick Weltz writes:
>
>
>
> Â*Â*Â*
> Â*Â*Â* I am a little confused. After voting, I looked MATIE up
> on the Web and got this definition, which matches Paul's:
> Â*Â*Â*
> Â*Â*Â* Matie [ˈmÉ‘Ëtɪ]
> Â*Â*Â* n
> Â*Â*Â* (Social Science / Education) South African informal a
> student at the University of Stellenbosch, esp one
> representing the University in a sport
> Â*Â*Â* [perhaps from Afrikaans tamatie tomato, from the red
> colour of the rugby jersey]
>
> Â*Â*Â* Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged
> <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts
> .aspx?English>Â* © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998,
> 2000, 2003Â* http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Matie
>
> Â*Â*Â* My online Collins confirms this,but you can't cut and
> paste from heir site.
>
> Â*Â*Â* Is it possible that the word has two legitimate but
> unrelated meanings, one the herring, and the other the
> Stellenbosch student?
>
>
> I was just about to post a similar message! I had looked it
> up after I voted and, like Dick, found the Collins definition
> and so assumed that #9 was the real def. I don't think this
> has ever happened before, has it? Should those who voted for
> #9 also get points for singling out the real def? I'm also
> curious as to how Paul came up with a def identical to the
> real one in Collins.
>
> We no longer have a Rules Mother, but would one of the
> Original Players like to comment?
>
> --Dodi
>
>
>
>
>

[Toni Savage]

Interesting... I also knew of "maatjesharing" and related Scandinavian words, but I thought someone was trying to be clever...

*-- Toni Savage




________________________________
From: Paul Keating <keating (AT) acm (DOT) org>
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Sent: Fri, June 11, 2010 5:08:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results


The word as posted does not have "two legitimate but unrelated meanings". Matie in the sense of Stellenbosch student is always, always spelt with a capital. The posting*explicitly said that the word for which definitions were called was not capitalized in running text.
*
Since the World Cup starts this week, I thought a*South African def would be appropriate. And I*know from experience that most players pay little attention to that note on capitalization. And soI relied on this in presenting for the proposed word matie a real definition for what I was sure was the quite different South African word*Matie:*it wasn't conceivable that Tony's source would have failed to mention capitalization, and so I knew that his dictionary definition, whatever it turned out to be, was going to be very far away from Stellenbosch.
*
And I was right:*it turned out to be*the North Sea; which I guessed by taking a punt on the*Dutch word maatjesharing. Don't ask me where I know that from: as an immigrant in Holland I always have a Dutch dictionary open on my desktop both at home and at work*that I browse*in spare moments. I suspect I might have been looking for words that end in -ing that aren't feminine, which is what the rule of thumb says. (It's masculine, even if the fish is female.)
*
It's true that I did come pretty close to the Collins*Online and DSAE definitions out of my head, but you all know I can sound very like a real dictionary when I try. Though I missed the*reference to sport, which I shouldn't have (rats!).
*
Even the ety sounds like the Collins; but Collins got*theirs from the DSAE; and I was at Rhodes University where the DSAE was compiled, and it's even remotely possible, though unlikely, that*I saw that ety on a*8x5 card once. On the other hand,*it is very probable that*I personally knew the Dictionary Unit staffer who wrote it.
*
In any case, it's something that any South African undergraduate*in my day was*likely to know. Though, for as long as I've known it, that rugby jersey has been a handsome burgundy with gold trim. Maybe it was a brighter red in the 1890s when the word was coined. Or maybe they were thinking of ketchup.
*
I didn't check a dictionary for a genuine def for Matie because, obviously,*I could hardly have avoided seeing*matie if it*had been*there. But as it turned out, I didn't need to.
*
Since the DSAE is a dead-tree dictionary that none of you are likely to have, its article is below, verbatim, but minus 6 column centimetres of citations and with the not very interesting pronunciation omitted because of font issues.
*
--
Paul Keating
The Hague

Matie*n. Formerly also Maatie. [Prob. *abbrev. of Afk. tamatie tomato, alluding to the colour of Stellenbosch University's rugby jersey.]
1.a. A student or alumnus of Stellenbosch University, Western Cape; esp.., a member of this university's rugby team. b. Often in pl., used collectively: Stellenbosch University. Also attrib.
2. comb. Matieland, Stellenbosch University; the town of Stellenbosch.
*
----- Original Message -----
From: Dodi Schultz
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

I was just about to post a similar message! I had looked it up after I voted and, like Dick, found the Collins definition and so assumed that #9 was the real def. I don't think this has ever happened before, has it? Should those who voted for #9 also get points for singling out the real def? I'm also curious as to how Paul came up with a def identical to the real one in Collins.
*
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Abell
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

What I'm eager to know is how Paul arrived at his "fake" definition.* He always
likes to do an elaborate etymology, but this time he exceeded himself, unless he
knew the Stellenbosch meaning beforehand.
*
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Weltzl
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

That is what puzzles me, too. Paul?

[Dodi Schultz]

Toni Savage wrote:

> . . . coincidentally just went to see "The Colbert Report" with the REAL Rules Mother who was visiting NY!
>

How is she, Toni? And the girls (two, IIRC)? Does she plan to ever
return to The Game?

--Dodi

[Toni Savage]

She's doing great!* She was in NY for meeetings with her publishers and such.* She's very busy, and I doubt she will come back.* The kids are fine, except that Colleen was undergoing surgery*for a broken ankle when we were entering the show... she was madly BlackBerrying*to get status reports.* <Colleen's fine>.* the broken ankle was from volleyball... Theresa is also*still really involved in volleyball, too.
*-- Toni Savage



----- Original Message ----
From: Dodi Schultz <DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org>
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Sent: Sat, June 12, 2010 1:50:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Round 2112 - MATIE Results

Toni Savage wrote:

> . . . coincidentally just went to see "The Colbert Report" with the REAL Rules Mother who was visiting NY!
>*

How is she, Toni? And the girls (two, IIRC)? Does she plan to ever return to The Game?

--Dodi