[Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE

[EnDash@aol.com]

The word for round 2096 is
**********
* *
* FYKE *
* *
**********
As usual, no indication of capitalization or otherwise is implied.
New players are welcome. Don't look in a dictionary. If you know the word,
let me know soon, by email (if too many people know it, we'll pick another
word).
Think up a creative, intriguing, funny or genuine looking definition that
will entice your fellow players to vote for it. Send it BY EMAIL (not as a
public forum message) to me, before the deadline...
Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The Real Rules” at
_http://groups.google.com/group/dixonary/files_
(http://groups.google.com/group/dixonary/files) .
Deadline for submitting your fake definitions directly to me at
_endash (AT) aol (DOT) com_ (mailto:endash (AT) aol (DOT) com) – and not to the group -- will be
Monday, April 12, at 7:00 PM EDT – or the equivalent in your time zone.
Best of luck, Dick


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[Dodi Schultz]

Dick, there's some weird stuff in your message, typographically speaking--at least, as it reached me. In three spots, some oddities appear, as cited below (dunno how they appear to other players):





 Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The Real Rules”





In my screen,  "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no space) by an "a" with a  circumflex accent, a Greek letter, and an "o-e" pushed together and followed (again, no space) with the first two of those characters.





directly to me at endash (AT) aol (DOT) com (mailto:endash (AT) aol (DOT) com) –




Your address is followed by a space, then the first two of those characters above plus what appears to be the opening of a quote.





Monday, April 12, at 7:00 PM EDT – or the equivalent





"EDT" is followed the same way as your address above.

I've described rather than trying to duplicate, since they  might come out entirely different.

Are you pasting in material from a wordprocessor? If so, I suggest telling it to stick to plaintext.

--Dodi








 
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[Tim B]

in parts of Britain, something that is not genuine

nad

Best wishes,
Tim B.


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[JohnnyB]

Dodi

What language coding (encoding) do you have set in your mail viewer or even machine? ... - I can achieve a similar effect on Dick's message by viewing it while changing away from the 'normal' Windows encoding (I can't quite achieve exactly the same set as you see but that is probably because I start with english "en-gb" and "Windows European Standard" and I don't have the ability to change all the way to USA eveywhere.

JohnnyB




> -----Original Message-----
> From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Dodi Schultz
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:22 PM
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE
>
>
> Dick, there's some weird stuff in your message,
> typographically speaking--at least, as it reached me. In
> three spots, some oddities appear, as cited below (dunno how
> they appear to other players):
>
>
>
>
>
> Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The
> Real Rules�
>
>
>
> In my screen, "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no
> space) by an "a" with a circumflex accent, a Greek letter,
> and an "o-e" pushed together and followed (again, no space)
> with the first two of those characters.
>
>
>
>
>
> directly to me at endash (AT) aol (DOT) com <mailto:endash (AT) aol (DOT) com> –
>
>
> Your address is followed by a space, then the first two of
> those characters above plus what appears to be the opening of a quote.
>
>
>
>
>
> Monday, April 12, at 7:00 PM EDT – or the equivalent
>
>
>
> "EDT" is followed the same way as your address above.
>
> I've described rather than trying to duplicate, since they
> might come out entirely different.
>
> Are you pasting in material from a wordprocessor? If so, I
> suggest telling it to stick to plaintext.
>
> --Dodi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
>
>

[Tim B]

>> Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The Real Rules�
>>
>
> In my screen, "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no space) by an "a"
> with a circumflex accent, a Greek letter, and an "o-e" pushed together and
> followed (again, no space) with the first two of those characters.

I see the same as you describe, Dodi. This is not a Windows machine, and I'm viewing in plain text,
I have encoding set to Western (ISO 8859-1).

Best wishes,
Tim B.

[Paul Keating]

Dodi,

In place of the funny characters, you should be seeing opening and closing
double quotes, and an em-dash. If you look at Dick's message on Gmail you
will see they are displayed exactly that way. So, the fault lies not with
the message, but with the way your email client has been told to display it.

Try changing your email client's encoding. It looks like you have it set to
"Western European: Windows" a.k.a. "Latin-1" or "codepage 1252" or "Windows
ANSI" or "ISO 8859-1".

In Outlook Express (XP/2K) or Windows Mail (Vista), with the message
displayed, you change the encoding thus: View | Encoding | Unicode (UTF-8).
Other email clients will have similar menu sequences.

Unicode is an internet standard for email bodies, and has been since 1996.
After 15 years, you're not really entitled to complain anymore if email
arrives in UTF-8 and your email client interprets it wrongly. In this case,
the solution is to shoot the messenger! (Or at least reconfigure it.)

--
Paul Keating
The Hague


----- Original Message -----
From: Dodi Schultz
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 7:21 PM

Dick, there's some weird stuff in your message, typographically speaking--at
least, as it reached me. In three spots, some oddities appear, as cited
below (dunno how they appear to other players):





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[Tim B]

> Try changing your email client's encoding. It looks like you have it set to
> "Western European: Windows" a.k.a. "Latin-1" or "codepage 1252" or "Windows
> ANSI" or "ISO 8859-1".

This is interesting. My software (Linux + Thunderbird, set to Western) shows the original message
correctly with the character set either UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1, and again in either case it shows the
incorrect characters when displaying Dodi's message!

Best wishes,
Tim B.


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[Dodi Schultz]

JohnnyB wrote:

> What language coding (encoding) do you have set in your mail viewer or even machine?
>

Johnny, I'd answer you if I understood your question. I speak only
English. I never set any special "language coding" in my computer or in
my mail software (Thunderbird).

--Dodi





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[Dodi Schultz]

Tim B wrote:
>>> Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The Real Rulesâ€
>>>
>>
>> In my screen, "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no space) by
>> an "a" with a circumflex accent, a Greek letter, and an "o-e" pushed
>> together and followed (again, no space) with the first two of those
>> characters.
>
> I see the same as you describe, Dodi. This is not a Windows machine,
> and I'm viewing in plain text, I have encoding set to Western (ISO
> 8859-1).

Tim, I can't find anything like that in my Thunderbird settings
(although, being technologically challenged, I may not be looking in the
right places). I did find "Language," and it said "English/United
States". Mine IS a Windows machine.

Anyway, the fact that you see what I see at least confirms that I'm not
hallucinating. ;-)

--Dodi



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[Dodi Schultz]

Paul Keating wrote:

> Try changing your email client's encoding. It looks like you have it set to
> "Western European: Windows" a.k.a. "Latin-1" or "codepage 1252" or "Windows
> ANSI" or "ISO 8859-1".
>
> In Outlook Express (XP/2K) or Windows Mail (Vista)
>

My e-mail program is Thunderbird 2.0.0.24--and I don't see why I have to
change anything, since other than these funny punctuation marks in this
particular posting, all my Dixonary stuff, from Dick and you and
everybody else (and my regular e-mail, too) comes through perfectly fine.

--Dodi





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[EnDash@aol.com]

Macs and some other non-windows machines have long had problems with
quotation marks and some other punctuation going over to Windows. It doesn't
necessarily seem to be a function of a particular character set.

Works the other way round, too. I frequently get copied files from friends
in which some punctuation, especially parens and quotes, are rendered on my
Windows machine strangely.

== Dick


In a message dated 4/11/2010 3:57:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:

>>
>> In my screen, "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no space) by
>> an "a" with a circumflex accent, a Greek letter, and an "o-e" pushed
>> together and followed (again, no space) with the first two of those
>> characters.
>
> I see the same as you describe, Dodi. This is not a Windows machine,
> and I'm viewing in plain text, I have encoding set to Western (ISO
> 8859-1).


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[EnDash@aol.com]

I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain as
you can get. My machine is defaulted to United States International, but I
haven't run into this particular problem before in sent text, only
sometimes with stuff I receive.


In a message dated 4/11/2010 1:21:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:

Are you pasting in material from a wordprocessor? If so, I suggest telling
it to stick to plaintext.


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[Paul Keating]

Dodi,

We all made allowances when you used Tapcis, because it was obsolete
software that you loved (as I had) and that you couldn't change.

But now you have software that you can change. Please change it.

Will some Thunderbird fan in the group please provide more explicit
instructions than I can?

--
Paul Keating
The Hague


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodi Schultz" <DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org>
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE


>
> My e-mail program is Thunderbird 2.0.0.24--and I don't see why I have to
> change anything




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[Dodi Schultz]

Dick Weltz wrote:



Macs and some other non-windows machines have long had problems with quotation marks and some other punctuation going over to Windows.


But you're using a Windows machine and so am I. And I don't seem to have problems with ordinary messages from a bunch of correspondents who use Macs.

I've seen this kind of thing only when you or someone else has written a message not in the e-mail program but somewhere else, like in a wordprocessor (using that program's fonts), and pasted it in; one of my overseas correspondents was doing this until we figured out what the difficulty was.

BTW: I could, of course, read the information in your announcement perfectly well; no actual words were changed. I mentioned it only out of concern that later in the round, it could have some effect on someone's definition.

--Dodi







&nbsp;
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[Dodi Schultz]

Dick Weltz wrote:



I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain as you can get.


That is a true fact.&nbsp; I think.

Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my witness.

;-)

--Dodi







&nbsp;
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[Judy Madnick]

All my email is filtered through gmail. Frequently I receive emails with strange characters. If I go to the Web and check the same email on gmail, it looks fine. Apparently gmail does something to the message that creates these strange characters. I wonder whether googlegroups does the same thing. That said, I don't believe I've had a problem with Dixonary messages (but perhaps I've just gotten used to strange characters!!).

Judy

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Dodi Schultz" <DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org>

I've seen this kind of thing only when you or someone else has written a message not in the e-mail program but somewhere else, like in a wordprocessor (using that program's fonts), and pasted it in; one of my overseas correspondents was doing this until we figured out what the difficulty was.


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[Dodi Schultz]

Paul Keating wrote:

> We all made allowances when you used Tapcis, because it was obsolete software that you loved (as I had) and that you couldn't change.
>
> But now you have software that you can change. Please change it.
>
> Will some Thunderbird fan in the group please provide more explicit instructions than I can?
>


Paul, if someone who uses T'bird and understands this stuff can offer
advice, I'll be happy to follow it.

--Dodi




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[EnDash@aol.com]

That could be the problem. I pasted most of the message from a Dixomat file
and then edited it in MS Word (I was mistaken about the use of Notepad) to
change the location of the Rules and to include reminder copy about my
address. The quote marks and dashes came from the editing, but the weird
characters didn't show up on the AOL composing screen, so I didn't know that
they might have had "hidden" characteristics from the Word processor.


In a message dated 4/11/2010 4:31:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:

I've seen this kind of thing only when you or someone else has written a
message not in the e-mail program but somewhere else, like in a
wordprocessor (using that program's fonts), and pasted it in; one of my overseas
correspondents was doing this until we figured out what the difficulty was.



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[Tim B]

> Will some Thunderbird fan in the group please provide more explicit
> instructions than I can?

I'm not sure this is either necessary or sufficient, but the place to change the encoding is
Edit | Preferences | Display,
then click on Fonts (near bottom right),
then choose Unicode (UTF-8) for incoming mail.

Best wishes,
Tim B.




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[Paul Keating]

I have programmer colleagues who still haven't worked this out, so you don't
need to feel bad that you didn't know, but Notepad has been Unicode-aware
since Win2K and XP. The time is long past that Notepad produced only 7-bit
ascii files.

7-bit ascii was once the gold standard. Today it is just as dead as Bretton
Woods.

Is there a compelling reason for us to make believe that the software we use
is only capable of state-of-the-art 1995?

--
Paul Keating
The Hague


----- Original Message -----
From: Dodi Schultz
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE

Dick Weltz wrote:

I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain as
you can get.

That is a true fact. I think.

Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my
witness.

;-)

--Dodi



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[Guerri Stevens]

It looked fine to me, Dodi.

In my Thunderbird setup, using Tools|Options, under the Display
settings, Formatting, then the Fonts button (Configure the fonts and
encodings used by Thunderbird): my settings are (reading from the top so
I don't have to type all the captions in this message): Western, Serif,
Times New Roman, Arial, Courier New. Allow messages to use other fonts
is checked. At the bottom, both outgoing and incoming are set to Western
(ISO-8859-1). For what it's worth.

Guerri

Dodi Schultz wrote:
>
> Dick, there's some weird stuff in your message, typographically
> speaking--at least, as it reached me. In three spots, some oddities
> appear, as cited below (dunno how they appear to other players):...



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[Guerri Stevens]

If you're using Dixomat, you can modify it so the announcement and other
messages are mostly the way you want them. You will still have to edit
the deadlines, but you can stick the rules sentence and the location of
the rules in the canned message, so you don't have to add that manually.

Guerri

EnDash (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:
>
> That could be the problem. I pasted most of the message from a Dixomat
> file and then edited it in MS Word (I was mistaken about the use of
> Notepad) to change the location of the Rules and to include reminder
> copy about my address. The quote marks and dashes came from the editing,
> but the weird characters didn't show up on the AOL composing screen, so
> I didn't know that they might have had "hidden" characteristics from the
> Word processor.
>
> In a message dated 4/11/2010 4:31:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:
>
> I've seen this kind of thing only when you or someone else has
> written a message not in the e-mail program but somewhere else, like
> in a wordprocessor (using that program's fonts), and pasted it in;
> one of my overseas correspondents was doing this until we figured
> out what the difficulty was.
>


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[EnDash@aol.com]

thanks


In a message dated 4/11/2010 5:54:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
guerri (AT) tapcis (DOT) com writes:

If you're using Dixomat, you can modify it so the announcement and other
messages are mostly the way you want them. You will still have to edit
the deadlines, but you can stick the rules sentence and the location of
the rules in the canned message, so you don't have to add that manually.

Guerri

EnDash (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:
>
> That could be the problem. I pasted most of the message from a Dixomat
> file and then edited it in MS Word (I was mistaken about the use of
> Notepad) to change the location of the Rules and to include reminder
> copy about my address. The quote marks and dashes came from the editing,

> but the weird characters didn't show up on the AOL composing screen, so
> I didn't know that they might have had "hidden" characteristics from the
> Word processor.
>
> In a message dated 4/11/2010 4:31:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:
>
> I've seen this kind of thing only when you or someone else has
> written a message not in the e-mail program but somewhere else, like
> in a wordprocessor (using that program's fonts), and pasted it in;
> one of my overseas correspondents was doing this until we figured
> out what the difficulty was.
>


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[Tony Abell]

On 2010-04-11 at 13:21 Dodi Schultz wrote:


> In my screen, "The Real Rules" is immediately preceded (no space) by an "a"
> with a circumflex accent, a Greek letter, and an "o-e" pushed together and
> followed (again, no space) with the first two of those characters.

I received Dick's announcement as a multipart message containing both a plain
text part and an HTML part. The plaintext part was sent as

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

and the HTML part as

Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"

In my client, both versions (plain text and HTML) display correctly. I can only
see the funny characters in your quoted-back message (the middle character,
after the a-with-circumflex, displays as a Euro sign, not a Greek letter).

What you're seeing is UTF-8 characters not being interpreted correctly, but as
ISO-8859-1 or Windows 1252. Since both parts in my copy have Content-Type
headers indicating the character encoding, they are both displayed correctly
even though they are coded differently.

Evidently your particular version of Thunderbird has problems correctly
interpreting the Content-Type headers. Or maybe you're receiving different
messages from the rest of us. Remember, I got both plain text and HTML, but you
have not mentioned getting two versions of the message; that could be a Google
Groups setting.




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[Dodi Schultz]

Dick Weltz wrote:



That could be the problem. I pasted most of the message from a Dixomat file and then edited it in MS Word (I was mistaken about the use of Notepad)&nbsp; . . .


AHA!!

--Dodi








&nbsp;
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[Dodi Schultz]

Paul Keating wrote:

> I have programmer colleagues who still haven't worked this out, so you don't
> need to feel bad that you didn't know, but Notepad has been Unicode-aware . . .
>

Well, actually, that turns out to be irrelevant, since Dick wasn't using
Notepad. We were looking at the result of MS Word fonts.

--Dodi




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[Dodi Schultz]

Tony Abell wrote:
> I received Dick's announcement as a multipart message containing both a plain
> text part and an HTML part. The plaintext part was sent as
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> and the HTML part as
>
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>
> In my client, both versions (plain text and HTML) display correctly. . . .
>
> Evidently your particular version of Thunderbird has problems correctly interpreting the Content-Type headers. Or maybe you're receiving different messages from the rest of us. Remember, I got both plain text and HTML, but you have not mentioned getting two versions of the message . . .
>

I'm baffled. All of my e-mail comes in as single messages.

--Dodi




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[Daniel B. Widdis]

TA> Evidently your particular version of Thunderbird has problems
TA> correctly interpreting the Content-Type headers. Or maybe
TA> you're receiving different messages from the rest of us.

FWIW, I received the same strange symbols as Dodi, and I'm using MS Outlook
2007. The default encoding was "Western European (Windows)". I manually
switched the encoding to Unicode (UTF-8) and got the correct display.

However, I would hesitate to blame Tbird or Dodi's config for being at fault
here. Apparently the content headers were not quite sufficient for Outlook,
either.

I don't know whether it's a configuration of Outlook or of the Google Group
itself. And while I'm likely more tech-savvy than Dodi, I'm still not sure
how to fix mine for the future either.

--
Dan




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[Dodi Schultz]

Tim B wrote:
> I'm not sure this is either necessary or sufficient, but the place to
> change the encoding is
> Edit | Preferences | Display,
> then click on Fonts (near bottom right),
> then choose Unicode (UTF-8) for incoming mail.

Okay, I found "Display" (under "Options," not "Preferences"), and under
"Fonts" it says, for encoding both incoming and outgoing mail, "Western
(ISO-8859-1)", which is what I think you mentioned in your first
comment. And I've just changed incoming to "Unicode (UTF-8)."

Now, Dick, I trust you still have that original announcement. Would you
like to send it to me again, so I can see if it looks any different?

--Dodi




--Dodi



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[Dodi Schultz]

Daniel B. Widdis wrote:

> FWIW, I received the same strange symbols as Dodi, and I'm using MS Outlook
> 2007. The default encoding was "Western European (Windows)". I manually
> switched the encoding to Unicode (UTF-8) and got the correct display.
>
> However, I would hesitate to blame Tbird or Dodi's config for being at fault
> here. Apparently the content headers were not quite sufficient for Outlook,
> either.
>
> I don't know whether it's a configuration of Outlook or of the Google Group
> itself.

As we now know, it was Dick's editing his message with MS Word.

> And while I'm likely more tech-savvy than Dodi . . .

"Likely"? HA HA HA HA HA [etc.]. You forget that I've seen your résumé.

--Dodi




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[Dodi Schultz]

Tim B and Guerri (et al.):

I changed the T'bird encoding back to what it was, and this message is a
test.

After I changed the incoming mail encoding from Western (ISO-8859-1) to
Unicode (UTF-8), I sent the message replying to Dan's note, and I
referred to his credentials document, which can be spelled just plain
"resume" or, more correctly IMO, with accents, thus: résumé. I used the
latter spelling. (Each "e" has an acute accent.)

When the message came back to me in the group distribution, that word
came up on my screen as "r?sum?"!

Now, the encoding in my T'bird is back to Western for both outgoing and
incoming, and we'll see what happens.

--Dodi



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[EnDash@aol.com]

As you can see, it arrived on my screen correctly as résumé.


In a message dated 4/11/2010 10:19:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:

After I changed the incoming mail encoding from Western (ISO-8859-1) to
Unicode (UTF-8), I sent the message replying to Dan's note, and I
referred to his credentials document, which can be spelled just plain
"resume" or, more correctly IMO, with accents, thus: résumé. I used the
latter spelling. (Each "e" has an acute accent.)

When the message came back to me in the group distribution, that word
came up on my screen as "r?sum?"!


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[EnDash@aol.com]

Here it is:




The word for round 2096 is
**********
* *
* FYKE *
* *
**********
As usual, no indication of capitalization or otherwise is implied.
New players are welcome. Don't look in a dictionary. If you know the word,
let me know soon, by email (if too many people know it, we'll pick another
word).
Think up a creative, intriguing, funny or genuine looking definition that
will entice your fellow players to vote for it. Send it BY EMAIL (not as a
public forum message) to me, before the deadline...
Full rules, if you're curious, are in the file “The Real Rules” at
_http://groups.google.com/group/dixonary/files_
(http://groups.google.com/group/dixonary/files) .
Deadline for submitting your fake definitions directly to me at
_endash (AT) aol (DOT) com_ (mailto:endash (AT) aol (DOT) com) – and not to the group -- will be
Monday, April 12, at 7:00 PM EDT – or the equivalent in your time zone.
Best of luck, Dick



In a message dated 4/11/2010 9:58:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
DodiSchultz (AT) nasw (DOT) org writes:

Okay, I found "Display" (under "Options," not "Preferences"), and under
"Fonts" it says, for encoding both incoming and outgoing mail, "Western
(ISO-8859-1)", which is what I think you mentioned in your first
comment. And I've just changed incoming to "Unicode (UTF-8)."

Now, Dick, I trust you still have that original announcement. Would you
like to send it to me again, so I can see if it looks any different?


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[Dodi Schultz]

Dick Weltz wrote:



As you can see, it arrived on my screen correctly as r&eacute;sum&eacute;.


On mine, too, after I restored the original settings in Thunderbird!

And since you explained about using MSWord to edit your original posting, I think everything is clear and all is well.&nbsp; :-)

--Dodi






&nbsp;
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[Daniel B. Widdis]

DS> On mine, too, after I restored the original settings in Thunderbird!

Unfortunately it still displayed in the default (Western European) coding for me. My perusal of the interwebs indicated there’s no way to change the default encoding on my end (I can manually change it to Unicode to read the message, but that doesn’t help the next message) – so the fault appears to be in the client sending the message, not properly identifying its encoding.

Oh well. Not a big deal, and I think we’ve ventured off topic enough on this!

--
Dan



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[Chuck]

Dodi -

Since Windows XP Notepad has had the capability of using more than just
ANSI characters, which can cause interesting effects. See the URL below
for the basic overview:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/win_notepad_utf_description.mspx?mfr=true

The term big-endian, one of the types of what we used to refer to as
byte sex, explains why some characters, if they are more than a byte
long, may be mangled in Windows/Mac or Mac/Windows transport.

I have a virtual program which will run (although not very quickly)
Windows XP on a G4 iBook, and the tricks that are occurring inside, such
as reversing the byte order of all multi-byte integers, to make this
work amaze me. The Intel Macs, of course, need no such tricks, sadly.
But then again, Windows will run quickly on these machines, if that's a
good thing.

I'm sure there are some who are happy that they can now mix Arabic and
Chinese on Notepad, but it used to be my refuge from Unicode, and I miss
the simplicity of the old version. I suppose if I missed it enough I
could get a copy off a Windows 98 machine, but who knows what the unseen
effects of that might be?

Best of luck with all the new vistas this opens up,

- Chuck


Dodi Schultz wrote:
> Dick Weltz wrote:
>
>> I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as
>> plain as you can get.
>
> That is a true fact. I think.
>
> Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my
> witness.
>
> ;-)
>
> --Dodi
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

[Chuck]

On cold dark nights some of us long for our old ASR 33's. I once used
one with 5 bit baudot code paper tape, probably ITA2, but I couldn't
say for sure at this late date. All the rest were ASCII. For a brief
while, probably only a year or two, I could read uninterpreted
Hollerith cards, although they were tougher than paper tape to read.
There used to be a box of 2,000 cards in my basement, but after several
moves the basement is now smaller and the box, along with the line
printer and countless generations of computers, is long gone.

- Chuck

Paul Keating wrote:
> I have programmer colleagues who still haven't worked this out, so you don't
> need to feel bad that you didn't know, but Notepad has been Unicode-aware
> since Win2K and XP. The time is long past that Notepad produced only 7-bit
> ascii files.
>
> 7-bit ascii was once the gold standard. Today it is just as dead as Bretton
> Woods.
>
> Is there a compelling reason for us to make believe that the software we use
> is only capable of state-of-the-art 1995?
>
> --
> Paul Keating
> The Hague
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dodi Schultz
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE
>
> Dick Weltz wrote:
>
> I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain as
> you can get.
>
> That is a true fact. I think.
>
> Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my
> witness.
>
> ;-)
>
> --Dodi
>
>
>
>



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[Daniel B. Widdis]

CE> Since Windows XP Notepad has had the capability of using more than just ANSI characters

Notepad has a fatal flaw of being unable to recognize Mac- or Unix- style line breaks, despite its other non-text goodness. Microsoft acknowledges the flaw but so far refuses to fix it – probably because they already have a replacement, Wordpad, that does things properly.

Since most of my text-based work is with unix-style files, I have found Notepad to be utterly worthless. YMMV.

--
Dan



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[Dodi Schultz]

Chuck wrote:

Since Windows XP Notepad has had the capability of using more than just ANSI characters, which can cause interesting effects.&nbsp;
Chuck, you're referring to an exchange after the initial post of the word for Round 2096. Later--after the message you cite, in which Dick said that he had posted from&nbsp; Notepad--Dick remembered that it wasn't Notepad after all. There was (as I had first suggested) a wordprocessor involved.

--Dodi












&nbsp;
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[Chris Carson]

Now there's a blast from the past. My first piece of 'computer' equipment
was an ASR-33 with a paper tape (5 level baudot, natch) reader/punch and a
built in 110 baud acoustic modem- the one with the rubber cups that you
pushed the telephone handset into. My thought at the time was to put it
into ham radio TTY service but it never got that far. I was able to dial up
3 or 4 university systems, though. I used to read Hollerith myself. One of
my part time jobs in college was as a key punch operator on the night shift
at the local bank. We would keypunch the checks and deposits for 3 small
client banks that didn't have MICR capability as then. More fun than the
keypunch machine was the check sorter - a huge behomoth of a thing full of
pneumatic tubes, belts and rubber rollers that we used to read and sort the
checks that did have MICR. It was about 5 feet high, 10 feet long and 3
feet deep and we would stack a couple of feet of checks in the hopper at one
end of the machine and it would feed them through the mechanism, sorting
them one column of the account number at a time, and drop them into the
appropriate pocket along the front of the machine. If the bank had a 14
digit account number, we had to make 14 sort passes, picking up the checks,
stacking them in the right order and putting them back in the hopper. Whew!
I remember one night when the machine had a jam and compressed about 400
checks into a little wad of paper about an inch wide. You could hear the
"thunk!!" all over the 3rd floor of the bank building. We did a lot of
creative unwadding and keypunching that night.

C



----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck" <chuck (AT) tdi (DOT) ca>
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE


> On cold dark nights some of us long for our old ASR 33's. I once used one
> with 5 bit baudot code paper tape, probably ITA2, but I couldn't say for
> sure at this late date. All the rest were ASCII. For a brief while,
> probably only a year or two, I could read uninterpreted Hollerith cards,
> although they were tougher than paper tape to read. There used to be a
> box of 2,000 cards in my basement, but after several moves the basement is
> now smaller and the box, along with the line printer and countless
> generations of computers, is long gone.
>
> - Chuck
>
> Paul Keating wrote:
>> I have programmer colleagues who still haven't worked this out, so you
>> don't
>> need to feel bad that you didn't know, but Notepad has been Unicode-aware
>> since Win2K and XP. The time is long past that Notepad produced only
>> 7-bit
>> ascii files.
>>
>> 7-bit ascii was once the gold standard. Today it is just as dead as
>> Bretton
>> Woods.
>>
>> Is there a compelling reason for us to make believe that the software we
>> use
>> is only capable of state-of-the-art 1995?
>>
>> --
>> Paul Keating
>> The Hague
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dodi Schultz
>> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
>> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE
>>
>> Dick Weltz wrote:
>>
>> I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain
>> as
>> you can get.
>>
>> That is a true fact. I think.
>>
>> Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my
>> witness.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> --Dodi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
>

[Judy Madnick]

From: "Chris Carson" <clcarson (AT) live (DOT) com>


<< Now there's a blast from the past. My first piece of 'computer'
<< equipment
<< was an ASR-33 with a paper tape (5 level baudot, natch)
<< reader/punch and a
<< built in 110 baud acoustic modem- the one with the rubber
<< cups that you
<< pushed the telephone handset into.

And you thought, "Wow! Isn't 'modern' technology wonderful?!"

Judy


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[Dodi Schultz]

Daniel B. Widdis wrote:



Notepad has a fatal flaw of being unable to recognize Mac- or Unix- style line breaks, despite its other non-text goodness.&Acirc;&nbsp; Microsoft acknowledges the flaw but so far refuses to fix it &acirc;€“ probably because they already have a replacement, Wordpad, that does things properly.

&nbsp;



Since most of my text-based work is with unix-style files, I have found Notepad to be utterly worthless.&Acirc;&nbsp;&Acirc;&nbsp; YMMV.




Dan, why is your stuff now coming through with those same funny characters, and in blue?

--DS








&nbsp;
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[Chris Carson]

Ain't it the truth. Now it's difficult for me to even get my mind around
the concept of a 110 baud modem, let alone an acoustic coupler. It was not
trouble at all to type faster than the system would transmit the data. And
I won't even get into vacuum tubes.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Madnick" <jmadnick (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
>
> And you thought, "Wow! Isn't 'modern' technology wonderful?!"
>



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[Judy Madnick]

From: "Chris Carson" <clcarson (AT) live (DOT) com>

<< Ain't it the truth.

My first computer (c. 1991) was wicked fast -- 10 Mhz in turbo mode! But it ran WordPerfect 5.0! I think the process I remember best (or worst??) was a DOS backup with all the weird coding...and lots and lots of disks!

Judy


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[Tony Abell]

On 2010-04-13 at 15:52 Dodi Schultz wrote:

> Dan, why is your stuff now coming through with those same funny characters, and in blue?

Once again, the message came to me with two parts, one plain text and the other
HTML. The HTML copy had the blue text and a few UTF-8 characters. It appears
to have been created by MS Word, by the way (very ugly HTML).

So far we can conclude two things:

1) Your email client (Thunderbird?) is only showing you the HTML versions and is
hiding the plain text versions of messages that have both, since you cannot see
any option to display one or the other (as I can). Another possibility is that
your Google Groups settings are saying to send only HTML.

2) Your client does not properly recognize or honor the charset parameter of the
Content-Type headers embedded in the messages or their partitions, and is
displaying UTF-8 encoding as though it were Windows 1252 or ISO 8859-1.



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[JohnnyB]

Back in 1961 I was involved with a bit of equipment created by Ferranti. A
4K valve computer about the size of a duplex buiding. It had a 24-bit word
and the registry words were a bank of rows of 24 oscilloscopes - 1 per bit -
for the 3 registers and we sat in a chair and watched the bits change -
about the same speed as sitting and watching a good table-tennis match.
Booting up required hand programming about 54 instructions into the
front-panel switches - until you had told it how to read a 5-track paper
tape - which was the real boot program.
Its only output was also paper-tape and at maximum speed the tape punch
could not punch fast enough to auto-feed the tape back into the reader - and
as paper-tape was the only backing storage we got very adept at winding up
paper tape!

When we eventualy got a "real" machine in 1965 (ie one of the first
not-valve ones) it ran a program which had taken 10 or so hours to process
on the old machine with no recorded CPU usage. - less than 0.01 seconds

I am glad those days are no more, but they were fun to be involved in

JohnnyB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Chris Carson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:07 PM
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE
>
> Ain't it the truth. Now it's difficult for me to even get my
> mind around the concept of a 110 baud modem, let alone an
> acoustic coupler. It was not trouble at all to type faster
> than the system would transmit the data. And I won't even
> get into vacuum tubes.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judy Madnick" <jmadnick (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> >
> > And you thought, "Wow! Isn't 'modern' technology wonderful?!"
> >
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

[Dodi Schultz]

Tony, we went through this with Dick's original announcement. I can and
did change Thunderbird's optional encoding, briefly, to UTF-8 for
incoming and found it was distorting the normal stuff. I changed it back
to 8859-1 for both incoming and outgoing. Dick acknowledged that his
initial announcement had come out of a wordprocessor. Dan, whose stuff
usually comes through perfectly legibly, is (I think) just having a
little fun right now.

--Dodi



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[Paul Keating]

I can't tell war stories like that one, but I do get smiles out of juniors
when I talk about the old manual punch machines, with a travelling 12-key
keypad, over what looked like the platen of an old portable Remington
typewriter, that you had to play chords on to get letters.

I never saw a Ferranti, but I did work on the not distantly related ICL 1900
series.

And there was nothing wrong with 24-bit words, by the way, from the
perspective of scientific computing. That gave you a real of 48 bits and a
double-precision of 96 bits, something only recently achieved in what we are
pleased to call mainstream computing. (To say nothing of the CDC that St.
Nick worked on, that had a 60-bit word and 120-bit double-precision.)

--
Paul Keating
The Hague

----- Original Message -----
From: "JohnnyB" <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE


> Back in 1961 I was involved with a bit of equipment created by Ferranti. A
> 4K valve computer about the size of a duplex buiding.



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[JohnnyB]

Paul

An ICL 1900 was the machine I referred to as a "real" machine - that is
where I really learned to program - the other (Ferranti valve machine) was
fundamental in establishing our ideas because 20 minutes on it was still
much faster than 6 technichians working 8 hour days for 3 weeks on
Brunsvigas -- vis-a-vis precision, didn't ICL FORTRAN have triple-precision
and even double-double precision math? (not that I ever used it, I
disappeared off into PLAN where I did whatever I wanted)

JohnnyB





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[Daniel B. Widdis]

DS> Dan, why is your stuff now coming through with those same funny
characters, and in blue?

It's in blue because that's my default color to write in Outlook.

It's funny characters because in my misguided attempt to get Dick's earlier
message displaying by default in Unicode (UTF-8), I set that as my default
outgoing format. I suspect if you switch your encoding to Unicode (UTF-8)
my message will appear as intended (but still blue).

--
Dan



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[Paul Keating]

I don't remember anything about triple precision but I think the 96-bit
might have been what you are referring to.

We all compiled our programs with what we then called steering lines that
said "compress integer and logical", which meant, "represent integer and
logical as 24 bits." By that reckoning you could have then regarded 48-bit
reals as as double precision, and, if you count perversely in powers, that
would make 96-bit reals triple precision. But Fortran called 96 bits double
precision.

I did learn PLAN, sort of, but the only useful thing I ever did with it was
character comparison, because my primary interest in computing, then as now,
was language processing.

The 1900 stored four 6-bit characters to a word, but you could not easily
compare two 4-character sequences in Fortran, because the compiler
translated such a test into subtracting one value from the other and testing
the result for zero. With 4 characters in the word, subtraction invariably
caused integer overflow. Hence the PLAN routine.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague

----- Original Message -----
From: "JohnnyB" <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
To: <dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 12:09 AM
Subject: RE: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE


> Paul
>
> An ICL 1900 was the machine I referred to as a "real" machine - that is
> where I really learned to program - the other (Ferranti valve machine) was
> fundamental in establishing our ideas because 20 minutes on it was still
> much faster than 6 technichians working 8 hour days for 3 weeks on
> Brunsvigas -- vis-a-vis precision, didn't ICL FORTRAN have
triple-precision
> and even double-double precision math? (not that I ever used it, I
> disappeared off into PLAN where I did whatever I wanted)
>
> JohnnyB
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

[Dodi Schultz]

Daniel B. Widdis wrote:





It’s in blue because that’s my default color to write in Outlook.




Oh. Okay.
&nbsp;



It’s funny characters because in my misguided attempt to get Dick’s earlier message displaying by default in Unicode (UTF-8), I set that as my default outgoing format.&nbsp; I suspect if you switch your encoding to Unicode (UTF-8) my message will appear as intended (but still blue).




Yep, I did that earlier on (for incoming) to see what it did with Dick's stuff. But it also turned acute-accented e's into question marks. So I switched it back, and now everything comes through normal (except your prior message, which you've now explained).

Sometimes when y'all talk programming talk I feel as if I've accidentally wandered onto Pandora. Actually, I kinda like the blue letters. (I think I like my blue better than your blue, though.)

--Dodi








&nbsp;
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[stamps]

As one who has programmed the IBM 1600 in machine code by using the overpunch key on Hollerith
cards, I am eternally grateful for ASCII keyboards.

--
Salsgiver.com Webmail

Fiber Optic Internet and Voice are here!
Find out more at http://www.gotlit.com


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Chuck <chuck (AT) tdi (DOT) ca>
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Sent: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:00:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE

> On cold dark nights some of us long for our old ASR 33's. I once
> used one with 5 bit baudot code paper tape, probably ITA2, but I
> couldn't say for sure at this late date. All the rest were ASCII.
> For a brief while, probably only a year or two, I could read
> uninterpreted Hollerith cards, although they were tougher than
> paper tape to read. There used to be a box of 2,000 cards in my
> basement, but after several moves the basement is now smaller and
> the box, along with the line printer and countless generations of
> computers, is long gone.
>
> - Chuck
>
> Paul Keating wrote:
> > I have programmer colleagues who still haven't worked this out, so you don't
> > need to feel bad that you didn't know, but Notepad has been Unicode-aware
> > since Win2K and XP. The time is long past that Notepad produced only 7-bit
> > ascii files.
> >
> > 7-bit ascii was once the gold standard. Today it is just as dead as Bretton
> > Woods.
> >
> > Is there a compelling reason for us to make believe that the software we use
> > is only capable of state-of-the-art 1995?
> >
> > --
> > Paul Keating
> > The Hague
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dodi Schultz
> > To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Dixonary Round 2096 -- New Word: FYKE
> >
> > Dick Weltz wrote:
> >
> > I pasted it from Notepad, saved as a .txt file, which is about as plain as
> > you can get.
> >
> > That is a true fact. I think.
> >
> > Still I saw what I saw, and I'm sticking to my story. Tim Bourne is my
> > witness.
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > --Dodi
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.
------- End of Original Message -------