So, what would you do?

[Mike]

Many of you are aware that I've been looking for a job for a while. Chasing after a few opportunities wasn't yielding anything, so finally I started posting my resume online. (I'm using a an email address that I can abandon, if needed, and a K7 phone number to keep my home number private.)

So far, I haven't had any potential employers contact me, but since it only has been a few days, I'm not going to fret, yet.

However, I have received email from scammers ("you can make $2K/week by processing international payments through your checking account"), educational offers ("you can get a degree in Computer Science for less than you think"), franchise opportunities (we already have five Subways on the island), and sales opportunities (I don't want to sell anything, much less insurance or telephone service in an MLM environment).

Today, I got a call and a follow-up email from a woman with Allen and Associates. She said she had a few questions about my resume, and asked me to give her a call.

Before calling, I went to the company's web site, where I learned I could get a free resume critique. I also found a page that describes the cost of being unemployed, leading me to suspect that the company was selling its services. I also found a long long long page of "success stories."

Still being suspicious, I checked ripoffreport.com. I saw lots of complaints from people who paid $1,800-$3,600 to get job search assistance, but felt the company didn't deliver. Consumerist.com had one link to a ripoffreport story. Then I checked bbb.org, which says the company has a rating of "D," with a considerable number of complaints.

<sigh>

My natural inclination is to want to return the call. My momma would be aghast at my being rude in any situation.

I contemplated returning the call and saying, "I've seen a lot of bad press about Allen and Associates. If you want me as a client, you're welcome to help me find a job, and I'll pay once I've received an offer."

However, my own judgment says not to bother returning the call, and just move on. I don't think this company can do anything to hurt my job search, and why waste the time contacting someone who only wants to steal my money?

...thoughts?

[sidney]

I don't think this company can do anything to hurt my job search, and why waste the time contacting someone who only wants to steal my money?

I think you've summed it up there.

They probably have a lot more experience scamming people than you have experience dealing with people like that without getting ripped off. It sounds like in this situation a win for you would be not losing money to them. That's not much upside.

Even if they do manage to get you in touch with a potential employer, what are the chances that a company with their reputation will be one that the employer will not want to deal with? Once the employer gets your resume from them, they can't accept it from anywhere else.

[ktinkel]

… why waste the time contacting someone who only wants to steal my money?They are unlikely to have any leads you couldn’t scare up (or haven’t already). If they are not merely incompetent they are out-and-out crooks.

I can only imagine how frustrated you must be at this point, but it is hard to see how dealing with people like this would make things better.

[Jeff]

What would I do?

I'd be thankful for K7. If they had a "real" phone number they could have you by the short & curlies, which you might not know about until you got sheared. Do not call them, unless you disable CID first.

- Jeff

[Judy G. Russell]

my own judgment says not to bother returning the call, and just move on. I don't think this company can do anything to hurt my job search, and why waste the time contacting someone who only wants to steal my money? ...thoughts?Trust your own judgment.

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time in this economy, Mike. But these folks don't sound like the answer... or even any part of one.

[Mike]

Once the employer gets your resume from them, they can't accept it from anywhere else.
I don't think that would be a problem. From what I read on ripoffreport.com:


the company has discussions with the job seeker (and criticizes the resume)
the company generates a tailored list of employers with specific individuals to contact at each employer
the company pats the job seeker on the back and says, "have at it!"

The company's site suggests that it initiates the communications with the employers on the job seeker's behalf, but according to the complaints on ripoffreport.com, no such thing. Even worse, some of the posters on ROR said that when they did reach out, the contact individuals were completely confused why they were being called.

Thus, I tend to believe one poster's assertion that Allen and Associates does nothing more than collect money and generate a list that anyone can make from LinkedIn, D&B, or judicious Googling.

[Mike]

Thanks, Judy, Jeff, Kathleen, and Sidney. It's nice when a second opinion matches my own. :-)

[Dodi Schultz]

Mike, sounds to me like a sibling service to something called "Credit Solutions," which--according to news reports--cons desperate debtors into thinking they're going to be helped out of their financial difficulties. Said debtors allegedly find themselves in a deeper hole than ever. The company's said to be the target of suits by the attorneys general of three states.

No reason for you to return their calls.

Have you thought of going into business for yourself?

--Dodi

[Mike]

I don't know if Allen & Associates is related to "Credit Solutions," Dodi, but there are hundreds? thousands? of companies of that ilk. Our AG claims to have shut down dozens in CA alone.

Yes, I've thought of going into business for myself, but there's one obstacle: I'm not a marketing/sales type of guy. I have difficulty drumming up business, even in a good economy. I also find I don't have time to deal with all the overhead things--business licenses, biz insurance, employee health insurance, the aforementioned sales/marketing, and many of the other things that must be done. All the overhead easily can consume 40 hours a week, leaving almost no time to actually do the work.

[Peter Creasey]

Mike, It is my policy to always try to avoid having any dealings with disreputable people. Nothing can likely be gained with such dealings and bad things can result, directly or indirectly.

I would not get anywhere close to their radar.

You were smart to check them out in advance.

[Mike]

Thank you for the backing.

[Dodi Schultz]

Mike, you don't need licenses, employees, etc. etc. to be a freelance (self-employed) consultant/advisor. And we all know you're good at consulting and advising!

--Dodi

[Mike]

Actually, in my city, I would need a business license. And I would have to pay additional taxes, above and beyond income tax, self-employment tax, etc. Many of the cities and towns in my metro area have that requirement.

And then there's the issue of finding business...

[Gail]

Mike, have you thought of signing on with a legit recruiter? Amy's Mike has gotten a couple of well-paying jobs that way, and the employer pays the fee, not the employee. You work for the recruiter, but the firm can then hire you directly after 6 months.

My son has gotten some good interviews from his recruiter(s) and hopefully will have something soon. <fingers crossed>

[Mike]

I'm registered with one, Gail, but haven't had any results. (It's a rather large company, too!) I just sent something to a recruiter with whom I worked years ago, but I haven't received a response yet.

I wonder if your son-in-law's and your son's recruiters' companies have offices in this area? (Is that too many possessives in one sentence?)

[heinz57g]

mike, i live and work in europe and the far east, so my own opinion is not very valid
in the USofA. but what i did, i asked some of my close friends there, both in banking,
legal and biz admin, and shortly summing up the five answers i got, would be:

-->> Pure Scam.

it took a while, sorry, but i guess, this together with above replies is pretty clear, no?

many greetings, and good luck - heinz -

PS: how 'moveable' are you?

[Mike]

Thanks for your help and the additional feedback, Heinz. I certainly am glad I did not waste my time (or money!)

At the moment, we certainly would consider relocating for the right opportunity. I'm searching locally, but my resume is online, and if I get inquiries from other areas, I'll definitely respond.

[Gail]

I'm registered with one, Gail, but haven't had any results. (It's a rather large company, too!) I just sent something to a recruiter with whom I worked years ago, but I haven't received a response yet.

I wonder if your son-in-law's and your son's recruiters' companies have offices in this area? (Is that too many possessives in one sentence?)

I'll ask them. Amy & Mike are leaving for the Dominican Republic at o'dark thirty tomorrow morning, not returning until next Friday, so I can't ask him until next week, but I'll ask Michael about the ones he's dealt with. He hasn't gotten a job yet, but has been given some pretty good prospects.

[Mike]

I'll ask them.
Thanks! I really appreciate it.

Apropos of this thread, I got another voice mail yesterday, from "Anita at AA Careers."

She told me that my resume had been received, it had been reviewed, and she wanted me to return the call so she could schedule a time for me to meet with them at their Santa Clara office.

I researched it, and its BBB rating is higher, but it's still another organization that charges up-front for the search, and then just provides a list that one can find by Googling or looking through D&B. This particular organization's schtick is to have the scamee visit the office several times before being told of the charge.

Santa Clara is an hour away during the day. I don't think I'll be making the trip.

[ktinkel]

Mike:

Thought this article on the front page of today’s Times would interest you: “Job Search Firms: Big Pitches and Fees, Few Jobs (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/us/17career.html).”

And this one, from yesterday: “Company Rarely Placed Clients in Jobs, Former Employees Say (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/us/17careerbar.html).”

Pat yourself on the back. Small pleasure, but better than laying out $8 grand for nothing as the guy in the first piece said he did.

[Mike]

Thanks, Kathleen. Interestingly, some of the names popped up when I was doing the research on the companies who'd contacted me.

<sigh> So many scammers out there... maybe I should switch to that profession. Except that I find it difficult to lie.

[ktinkel]

Thanks, Kathleen. Interestingly, some of the names popped up when I was doing the research on the companies who'd contacted me.

<sigh> So many scammers out there... maybe I should switch to that profession. Except that I find it difficult to lie.Don’t think it would be a great idea. Besides, talk about a crowded field!

[Mike]

Besides, talk about a crowded field!
Yet there seem to be more and more every day!

[ktinkel]

Yet there seem to be more and more every day!Consider the skill required and the setup cost: virtually nil.

Increasingly, I think we should have to pay to send e-mail. Like a stamp (only cheaper), enough to reduce the mass mailings.

[Mike]

Increasingly, I think we should have to pay to send e-mail. Like a stamp (only cheaper), enough to reduce the mass mailings.
Unfortunately, that would only reduce the spam. Scammers would send fewer messages, but focus on the most lucrative markets. Just like snail mail advertising.

[earler]

Though you could implement a payment for each email message, or block of 100, there are two problems. One is that the isp's would happily used this as profit base and add their cost plus for collecting the payments and turning them into the government, which itself would see another tax to be increased over time. However, the real problem is enforcing such a tax in rogue countries, or those unwilling to implement such a plan.

[ktinkel]

Unfortunately, that would only reduce the spam. Scammers would send fewer messages, but focus on the most lucrative markets. Just like snail mail advertising.I guess. Seemed more civilized than making spamming a hanging offense, internationally. :D

[Mike]

I guess. Seemed more civilized than making spamming a hanging offense, internationally. :D
I'd be happy just to see all their ill gotten gains removed.

Unfortunately, the spammers/scammers are clever enough to stay one step ahead of the people who try to find them. These days, instead of spamming from their own computers and network connections, they use 'bots on unsuspecting victims' machines.

[ktinkel]

I'd be happy just to see all their ill gotten gains removed.I suspect most of the “soldiers” in the spam army are fairly poor and stay that way. It is the guys at the top who make a bundle.

Unfortunately, the spammers/scammers are clever enough to stay one step ahead of the people who try to find them. These days, instead of spamming from their own computers and network connections, they use 'bots on unsuspecting victims' machines.Yep. We fend off roughly six a day at the DTP Forum; it is a dreary and unsatisfying task, but the alternative is to have members battered by message spam and worse.

[Mike]

I suspect most of the “soldiers” in the spam army are fairly poor and stay that way. It is the guys at the top who make a bundle.
Like Amway. <g>
Seriously, though, the ones in the biz for the long haul actually are hauling in the money. The ones not making a lot don't stick with it for long.

...it is a dreary and unsatisfying task, but the alternative is to have members battered by message spam and worse.
That we even have to battle is unsettling.

[ktinkel]

That we even have to battle is unsettling.Yep. Cost of survival.