Netbooks

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Talk to me about that new breed of portable PC called a "netbook." I'm getting interested in the idea of something smaller, under three pounds, battery life three to six hours, etc.

In everyday use, how are they working out? Will they run programs like Excel with reasonable speed? My major portable application (after Web browsing and email) is a data analysis program that probably has just a little more intensive math in it than a complicated spreadsheet.

I guess you install programs over a network connection? Are the screens usable outdoors? I'm not a touch typist, so the keyboard is not really critical.

What's your favorite make and model? Anything new in the pipeline I should wait three to six months for?

Thank you!

[Peter Creasey]

how are they working out?

Dan, It is really difficult to get a handle on the answers to your questions. There seems to be a crescendo of favorable opinions about these devices but little in the way of substantive details. It all seems speculative.

I'm glad you are asking the questions and I look forward to seeing what folks might have to say in the way of useful details/specs.

Sorry if my reply comes across as pablum!

[Judy G. Russell]

Talk to me about that new breed of portable PC called a "netbook." I'm getting interested in the idea of something smaller, under three pounds, battery life three to six hours, etc. In everyday use, how are they working out? Will they run programs like Excel with reasonable speed? My major portable application (after Web browsing and email) is a data analysis program that probably has just a little more intensive math in it than a complicated spreadsheet. I guess you install programs over a network connection? Are the screens usable outdoors? I'm not a touch typist, so the keyboard is not really critical. What's your favorite make and model? Anything new in the pipeline I should wait three to six months for? I haven't used one myself -- but I believe Dick Eastman (former Genealogy Forum on CServe, now at Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter -- eogn.com) does and loves it. I'm not sure which one he's using these days, though. Lemme see what I can find out.

[ndebord]

Talk to me about that new breed of portable PC called a "netbook." I'm getting interested in the idea of something smaller, under three pounds, battery life three to six hours, etc.

In everyday use, how are they working out? Will they run programs like Excel with reasonable speed? My major portable application (after Web browsing and email) is a data analysis program that probably has just a little more intensive math in it than a complicated spreadsheet.

I guess you install programs over a network connection? Are the screens usable outdoors? I'm not a touch typist, so the keyboard is not really critical.

What's your favorite make and model? Anything new in the pipeline I should wait three to six months for?

Thank you!

Dan,

I've been looking at the new netbooks with somewhat of a jaundiced eye. The main processsor is from Intel (Atom) and it is now into its 2nd iteration. It is improving enough to be good. <g> And as the manufacturers compete, they are starting to make the netbooks larger which means 12" screens and good resolution, full-size keyboards and more periphs. This is kind of history redux as I used to have a Compaq Armada M300 latop which weighed 3 lbs, had a 12.1 inch screen and almost 100% keyboard, which being Compaq was equal to any Thinkpad or other IBM keyboard out there... Only thing better was an IBM selectric typewriter!

Via's Nano, Intel's Atom and perhaps AMD's new Yukon are the processors being used in this new category and unless you are doing procesor heavy calculations, you should be fine with these new, light-weight laptops. Look for all the periphs you need and anything else that is a must have.

I think it means that portables are finally coming down in price to levels they should have reached years ago. The first generation Atom chipsets are less impressive, but all the cpu manufacturers are rushing to upgrade their processors and "mission creep" means the screen sizes will go up too.

P.S. Have yet to play with anything impressive. The little 10 inch screen ones I saw in the retail market don't do a thing for me. I want 12 inch screen, a real keyboard and a touchpad that is centered under the space bar (among other things).

[Dan in Saint Louis]

as the manufacturers compete, they are starting to make the netbooks larger which means 12" screens and good resolution, full-size keyboards and more periphs.
If only they could do this and still keep the weight down...

Via's Nano, Intel's Atom and perhaps AMD's new Yukon are the processors being used in this new categoryI have seen the Via's speed criticized. I played with a Lenovo S10 (Atom) yesterday and it seemed pretty quick. I was judging mostly by its Web browser speed, and the speed of opening applications like Wordpad. The automatic re-sizing (in IE) of a 6 megapixel photo (http://landiss.info/albums/DSC_0680.JPG) was essentially instantaneous.

The keyboard did not bother me as I am not a touch typist anyway. I had no trouble with the touch pad or "buttons" during my brief trial conducted while standing in front of a tied-down $360 machine at Circuit City. They had several left to be liquidated, so I will go back later in the week and make them a low offer to see if they will negotiate.

[Judy G. Russell]

I have seen the Via's speed criticized. I played with a Lenovo S10 (Atom) yesterday and it seemed pretty quick.The exact reverse was just posted on a photo forum I'm on -- saying the Via was quick and the Atom too slow!

[Mike]

...make them a low offer to see if they will negotiate.
Probably not. According to articles in The Consumerist (http://consumerist.com/), the prices are set in the computer and the sales staff, including the manager, cannot make any changes.

Even worse, the "liquidation" prices are based on MSRP, not Circuit City's normal retail prices.

The liquidation is being handled by a third-party firm whose mission is to maximize the amount of money received for the inventory.

Consumerist recommends that you check prices on the web before paying anything to Circuit City, especially since you won't be able to get support from the retailer if there are any problems.

[ndebord]

The exact reverse was just posted on a photo forum I'm on -- saying the Via was quick and the Atom too slow!

Judy,

Intel has new versions of the Atom out or coming out which should improve the processor and I believe Via will follow suit. As for AMD, not sure what they are doing for this market yet.

P.S.

Neo, it seems, is AMD's contribution and they supposedly want to call it an ultraportable chipset.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/156393/amd_creating_a_new_laptop_category.html

[fhaber]

I set up a couple of the best I've seen so far - MSI Wind, XP Home. Not slow at all with standard apps. I wouldn't run anything over PS 7 on it (1G RAM). I could see a speed diff between Eset and AVG 8 on this box (went with NOD32).

Keyboard: fair; not as good as the HP. Bigger than most.

Silly RAM setup; you have to disable the internal 1G to go to two.

1024x600 thrills me not at all. You have to scroll down too much.

The LED-lit screen is pretty sensational, otherwise - better than my Dell 22 UltraSharp.

Far better than the eee; haven't tried any Dells or Asuses.

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Talk to me about that new breed of portable PC called a "netbook." I'm getting interested in the idea of something smaller, under three pounds, battery life three to six hours, etc.
And now for the update:

My Lenovo S10 IdeaPad has arrived and is in service.

It is great.

The screen is quite usable, considering it is only 1024 x 600 pixels. Nice non-glare finish, very readable.

The keyboard is clearly smaller, but I am not a touch-typist and it has given me no problems.

Surprisingly fast! One of my programs (http://www.race-technology.com/main_analysis_software_8_946.html) loads data from a digital data logger that we use for motorcycle and other vehicle tests. It logs several channels at 100 samples per second. I filter the data (http://www.race-technology.com/wiki/index.php/AdvancedOptions/AdvancedAndUserFiltering) with Chebyshev filters to minimize the random noise and extract data at the frequency of interest, and then print graphs of the results. Chebyshev filters perform, in the digital domain, complex filtering that would require overly complicated electronics if attempted on an analog signal. I don't even pretend to understand all the math involved (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chebyshev_filter). Sidney probably does!

Anyway, when run on the Lenovo the program computes and displays the filtered results on 60 seconds of data from two variables (12000 samples) in a couple seconds. I really can't tell the difference between the netbook (1 GB RAM) and filtering the same data on an AMD Athlon 4400+ desktop (4 GB RAM).

The WiFi radio has the hottest receiver I've seen yet. I run NetStumbler on two laptops. Sitting on my office windowsill, the Acer sees about 18 WiFi signals in my neighborhood. Sitting next to it, the Lenovo sees 30. A higher percentage of those display "green" signal strength than on the Acer. The Acer's performance seems to be on a par with various laptops visitors have brought over, and with a USB WiFi adapter plugged into my desktop.

All told, the Lenovo is real sweetheart.

[Mike]

Congrats, woo!