View Full Version : The dunce
Jeff
January 4th, 2009, 03:30 PM
The dunce
President George W. Bush will leave behind a legacy of Bushisms, the label stamped on the command*er in chief’s original speaking style. Some of the president’s more notable malaprops and mangled statements: ——— — “I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.” — Sep*tember 2000, explaining his energy policies at an event in Michigan.
— “Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?” — Janu*ary 2000, during a campaign event in South Carolina.
— “There’s no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we will fail.” — Oct. 4, 2001, in Washington. Bush was remarking on a back-to*work plan after the terrorist attacks.
— “It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber.” — April 10, 2002, at the White House, as Bush urged Senate passage of a broad ban on cloning.
— “I want to thank the dozens of welfare-to-work stories, the actual ex*amples of people who made the firm and solemn commitment to work hard to embetter themselves.” — April 18, 2002, at the White House.
— “There’s an old saying in Ten*nessee — I know it’s in Texas, proba*bly in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” — Sept. 17, 2002, in Nashville, Tenn.
— “Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” — Aug. 5, 2004, at the signing ceremony for a defense spending bill.
— “Too many good docs are get*ting out of business. Too many OB/ GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country.” — Sept. 6, 2004, at a rally in Poplar Bluff, Mo.
— “Our most abundant energy source is coal. We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also pre*vents an environmental challenge.” — April 20, 2005, in Washington.
— “We look forward to hearing your vision, so we can more better do our job.” — Sept. 20, 2005, in Gulf*port, Miss.
— “I can’t wait to join you in the joy of welcoming neighbors back into neighborhoods, and small businesses up and running, and cutting those rib*bons that somebody is creating new jobs.” — Sept. 5, 2005, when Bush met with residents of Poplarville, Miss., in the wake of Hurricane Ka*trina.
— “It was not always a given that the United States and America would have a close relationship. After all, 60 years we were at war 60 years ago we were at war.” — June 29, 2006, at the White House, where Bush met with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.
— “Make no mistake about it, I understand how tough it is, sir. I talk to families who die.” — Dec. 7, 2006, in a joint appearance with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
— “These are big achievements for this country, and the people of Bulgaria ought to be proud of the achievements that they have achieved.” — June 11, 2007, in Sofia, Bulgaria.
— “Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for your introduction. Thank you for being such a fine host for the OPEC summit.” — September 2007, in Syd*ney, Australia, where Bush was at*tending an APEC summit.
— “Thank you, Your Holiness. Awesome speech.” April 16, 2008, at a ceremony welcoming Pope Bene*dict XVI to the White House.
— “The fact that they purchased the machine meant somebody had to make the machine. And when some*body makes a machine, it means there’s jobs at the machine-making place.” — May 27, 2008, in Mesa, Ariz.
— “And they have no disregard for human life.” — July 15, 2008, at the White House. Bush was referring to enemy fighters in Afghanistan.
The end, TG
Judy G. Russell
January 4th, 2009, 06:52 PM
The end, TGNot soon enough...
Dodi Schultz
January 5th, 2009, 05:38 PM
You missed a couple of gems:
"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." -- January 2001, upon announcing his education policies
"Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." -- June 2001, in a comment to reporters [Now we know where Sarah Palin looks for geographic guidance.]
"I thought we would succeed quicker than we did, and I am disappointed by the pace of success." -- December 2006, at a joint press conference with Blair
P.S. What do all the asterisks scattered through your posting signify?
--DS
sidney
January 5th, 2009, 08:21 PM
What do all the asterisks scattered through your posting signify?
My guess is that they got misconflated during the copy and pastering thing.
Bill Hirst
January 6th, 2009, 03:10 AM
"Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." -- June 2001, in a comment to reporters [Now we know where Sarah Palin looks for geographic guidance.]
This may explain the mysterious map and geography problem: copied from The New World Order Atlas:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_03/5worldmapDM_468x262.jpg
-Bill
Dodi Schultz
January 6th, 2009, 10:48 AM
NOTHING could explain that map, Bill--but it's delightful.
--DS
Lindsey
January 6th, 2009, 09:50 PM
This may explain the mysterious map and geography problem: copied from The New World Order Atlas:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_03/5worldmapDM_468x262.jpg
I did a little googling, and I can't be sure, because the link I found was dead, but might that be the picture that an Australian blogger said was titled "The World According to the United States of America"?
Lindsey
January 6th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Not soon enough...
Incredible, isn't it, to think that some 70% of the country is anxious to see the back of him?
No wonder Jeb Bush announced today that he would not be seeking the US Senate seat for Florida in 2010, and that this was not the time for him to run for another political office...
Judy G. Russell
January 7th, 2009, 09:26 AM
No wonder Jeb Bush announced today that he would not be seeking the US Senate seat for Florida in 2010, and that this was not the time for him to run for another political office...Yet his old Man, Bush 41, keeps saying Jeb would make a good President and he hopes he is President. Talk about dynasty...
Jeff
January 7th, 2009, 11:42 AM
Incredible, isn't it, to think that some 70% of the country is anxious to see the back of him?
I think it's past time to forcibly secede Texas from the Union. Although that may start another war with Mexico.
- Jeff
Judy G. Russell
January 7th, 2009, 03:50 PM
I think it's past time to forcibly secede Texas from the Union. Although that may start another war with Mexico.Texas isn't the only place to take the rap for this guy! Kennebunkport is in Maine, his family is from Connecticut!
Lindsey
January 7th, 2009, 11:34 PM
Yet his old Man, Bush 41, keeps saying Jeb would make a good President and he hopes he is President. Talk about dynasty...
Jeb probably would have been a better president than his older brother (not that it would take much to be better than the WORST PRESIDENT EVER), and in fact, I think he was planning to run in 2000 except that he lost his first bid for the governorship of Florida in 1994, and George won the governorship of Texas that same year, which set him up to run for president instead.
I do hope that at this point, though, the country has had it with the Bushes. I didn't much care for the old man as president, and he is head and shoulders over his progeny.
Lindsey
January 7th, 2009, 11:36 PM
I think it's past time to forcibly secede Texas from the Union. Although that may start another war with Mexico.
I'd go along with that! Except that I think maybe we could keep Austin, the place Molly Ivins used to refer to as "the little blue dot in the big red state."
Lindsey
January 7th, 2009, 11:37 PM
Texas isn't the only place to take the rap for this guy! Kennebunkport is in Maine, his family is from Connecticut!
Yeah, but it was Texas that elected him and launched his political career.
Judy G. Russell
January 8th, 2009, 12:58 AM
I think maybe we could keep Austin, the place Molly Ivins used to refer to as "the little blue dot in the big red state."And San Antonio too please.
Judy G. Russell
January 8th, 2009, 12:59 AM
Yeah, but it was Texas that elected him and launched his political career.I don't excuse 'em; I just don't blame them alone.
Judy G. Russell
January 8th, 2009, 01:00 AM
Jeb probably would have been a better president than his older brother (not that it would take much to be better than the WORST PRESIDENT EVER)Exactly. Talk about being damned with faint praise!
I do hope that at this point, though, the country has had it with the Bushes. I didn't much care for the old man as president, and he is head and shoulders over his progeny.Oh I am so with you on that. No more Bushes. Never. Ever.
Jeff
January 8th, 2009, 12:12 PM
And San Antonio too please.
Oh, yes to Molly and the Alamo. Mexico would embrace the former and bypass the later, all the while proclaiming a defensive war against invasive wee^H^H shrubs.
- Jeff
Bill Hirst
January 8th, 2009, 04:17 PM
I did a little googling, and I can't be sure, because the link I found was dead, but might that be the picture that an Australian blogger said was titled "The World According to the United States of America"?
The map is from an article titled "How the world really shapes up" at http://tinyurl.com/4q78ow, a.k.a. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-439315/How-world-really-shapes-up.html. If that link doesn't work, You could google "distorted map daily mail". There are several maps in the article and I picked "toy imports" as the funniest.
-Bill
Lindsey
January 8th, 2009, 10:16 PM
And San Antonio too please.
Oh, yes! Excellent point! San Antonio is a lovely city.
Lindsey
January 8th, 2009, 10:20 PM
The map is from an article titled "How the world really shapes up" at http://tinyurl.com/4q78ow, a.k.a. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-439315/How-world-really-shapes-up.html. If that link doesn't work, You could google "distorted map daily mail". There are several maps in the article and I picked "toy imports" as the funniest.
Aha! Oh, those are cool! I guess Americans are all kids at heart...
Hmmm, OTOH, Russia and China import almost no toys. Are we entertaining ourselves to death???
Mike
January 9th, 2009, 03:50 AM
And San Antonio too please.
And though there's nothing of major importance there, Maverick County, TX is blue.
Bill Hirst
January 9th, 2009, 06:33 AM
Aha! Oh, those are cool! I guess Americans are all kids at heart...
Hmmm, OTOH, Russia and China import almost no toys. Are we entertaining ourselves to death???
Just running away to Second Life.
-Bill
Judy G. Russell
January 9th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Oh, yes! Excellent point! San Antonio is a lovely city.Exactly. One of the very few places in Texas where I could live (if I had to).
Judy G. Russell
January 9th, 2009, 10:26 AM
And though there's nothing of major importance there, Maverick County, TX is blue.There are more than a few Blue Texas counties. But you can keep most of 'em anyway. I play a game with myself when I travel. The game is called: "Could I live here?" And for the vast majority of Texas (I say, as the daughter, granddaughter and great granddaughter of Texans), the answer is not only no, but HELL no.
MollyM/CA
January 10th, 2009, 12:10 AM
The other 30% are the satirists, parodists, and cartoonists.
I guess we can't count Bollywood but I hope this movie comes here:
The President is Coming (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/2009/01/07/2009-01-07_bollywoods_goodbye_to_george_w_bush_a_fi.html)
Lindsey
January 10th, 2009, 01:19 AM
And though there's nothing of major importance there, Maverick County, TX is blue.
I guess they're being true to their name! (I guess Maverick County didn't go for the Team of Mavericks in November, but I suppose that's exactly what you would expect of true Mavericks.)
Mike
January 10th, 2009, 02:19 AM
I play a game with myself when I travel. The game is called: "Could I live here?"
I do that, too. Austin? yes. San Antonio? Hmmm... I'd rather visit often.
Judy G. Russell
January 10th, 2009, 08:40 AM
I do that, too. Austin? yes. San Antonio? Hmmm... I'd rather visit often.I couldn't even live in Austin. It's... it's... it's in Texas.
Mike
January 10th, 2009, 10:42 PM
I couldn't even live in Austin. It's... it's... it's in Texas.
Oh, there'd have to be a REALLY GOOD reason (actually, much more than a hundred thousand of them) to move there--we wouldn't do it on a lark. But it's the one place in that state where I could live if I really had to.
Judy G. Russell
January 11th, 2009, 09:52 AM
Oh, there'd have to be a REALLY GOOD reason (actually, much more than a hundred thousand of them) to move there--we wouldn't do it on a lark. But it's the one place in that state where I could live if I really had to.In my cawse it'd have to be a much MUCH more than a hundred thousand reasons. I mean, it's... it's... it's TEXAS.
ndebord
January 11th, 2009, 10:10 AM
In my cawse it'd have to be a much MUCH more than a hundred thousand reasons. I mean, it's... it's... it's TEXAS.
Judy,
Well you could always compromise (and channel the last two presidents) and live here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texarkana
;-)
Judy G. Russell
January 11th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Well you could always compromise (and channel the last two presidents) and live here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texarkana;-)Ewwwwwww. No. No. No no no...
Mike
January 12th, 2009, 03:14 AM
I mean, it's... it's... it's TEXAS.
And there are airports there.
Judy G. Russell
January 12th, 2009, 10:04 AM
And there are airports there.I like airports. Airports let you LEAVE places like that.
ndebord
January 12th, 2009, 07:50 PM
And there are airports there.
Mike,
But will they let just anybody fly out of them? I remember being threatened with a chain gang in Clarksville TN after we closed a local bar by singing "Marching through Georgia" in 1968 (we being a mixed group of 'Nam vets from places like Detroit, Chicago and New York, finding ourselves stuck in ridgerunner country).
(After all, we were only responding to the locals at the bar who were singing "Dixie.")
Judy G. Russell
January 12th, 2009, 08:58 PM
I remember being threatened with a chain gang in Clarksville TN after we closed a local bar by singing "Marching through Georgia" in 1968 (we being a mixed group of 'Nam vets from places like Detroit, Chicago and New York, finding ourselves stuck in ridgerunner country).I got very much the same sort of reaction when I announced, at Stone Mountain, Georgia, that the South lost the Civil War... (something you'd never know by watching the laser show they do there...)
Mike
January 13th, 2009, 03:03 AM
I like airports. Airports let you LEAVE places like that.
Yup. But despite being in TX, Austin actually has livable areas. One can leave to do some travel, and might actually want to return home! Especially with a couple hundred reasons to do so.
Judy G. Russell
January 13th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Yup. But despite being in TX, Austin actually has livable areas. One can leave to do some travel, and might actually want to return home! Especially with a couple hundred reasons to do so.You're too influenced by your job situation, I'm sure.
ndebord
January 13th, 2009, 08:41 PM
I got very much the same sort of reaction when I announced, at Stone Mountain, Georgia, that the South lost the Civil War... (something you'd never know by watching the laser show they do there...)
Judy,
You DO like to live dangerous, don't you. <g>
I remember Augusta, Disgusta Georgia and red clay hills... however all is forgiven by the divine food in Savannah
Mike
January 14th, 2009, 04:17 AM
You're too influenced by your job situation, I'm sure.
Less by that than by personal experience supplemented by feedback from over a dozen people close to me, including my B-I-L (who spent a lot of time in many of the world's major cities when he was a high-level marketeer for a rather large company) and my lovely S-I-L, who was raised in TX, and has seen a lot.
My ex lived in San Antonio when we were dating, although he'd been raised just north of Austin. He hated SA, and always pined for Austin. He definitely was more comfortable in the latter!
Judy G. Russell
January 14th, 2009, 08:36 AM
My ex lived in San Antonio when we were dating, although he'd been raised just north of Austin. He hated SA, and always pined for Austin. He definitely was more comfortable in the latter!I can understand that -- SA is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Auston, well, if they'd move it to, say, Missouri, I'd consider it.
Judy G. Russell
January 14th, 2009, 08:38 AM
You DO like to live dangerous, don't you. <g> Well, it was really annoying. They have this amazing laser light show at Stone Mountain, and it was fun, until I realized that anybody who didn't know better (which would include foreign tourists as well as redneck Dixie types) would never get a clue that the North won from the presentation!
I remember Augusta, Disgusta Georgia and red clay hills... however all is forgiven by the divine food in SavannahThat red clay is amazing. It exists in Virginia too. My nephews once undertook to "paint" my mother's white house using that red clay -- the stains never came off.
ndebord
January 14th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Well, it was really annoying. They have this amazing laser light show at Stone Mountain, and it was fun, until I realized that anybody who didn't know better (which would include foreign tourists as well as redneck Dixie types) would never get a clue that the North won from the presentation!
That red clay is amazing. It exists in Virginia too. My nephews once undertook to "paint" my mother's white house using that red clay -- the stains never came off.
Judy,
I'm not sure that amazing is the word I would use to describe that red "stuff." And as I don't wish this post to hit the bit bucket, I shan't get any more explicit!
<g>
Lindsey
January 15th, 2009, 12:37 AM
I got very much the same sort of reaction when I announced, at Stone Mountain, Georgia, that the South lost the Civil War... (something you'd never know by watching the laser show they do there...)
Well, hey, you've seen the Jefferson Davis Monument (http://www.monumenthouse.com/richmond/monument/3089) in Richmond, right? Notice that the basic design is a Roman victory column? (One of the original design proposals for the Davis Monument was to construct a triumphal arch across Broad Street...)
Southerners are good at self-delusion.
Mike
January 15th, 2009, 02:25 AM
Auston, well, if they'd move it to, say, Missouri, I'd consider it.
Because of the heat? TX is much less humid than MO.
Really, Austin is an island of sanity in that state.
Judy G. Russell
January 15th, 2009, 08:24 AM
I'm not sure that amazing is the word I would use to describe that red "stuff." Considering that it is probably the longest lasting indelible stain agent known to man, I'd say "amazing" works as a descriptor!
Judy G. Russell
January 15th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Well, hey, you've seen the Jefferson Davis Monument (http://www.monumenthouse.com/richmond/monument/3089) in Richmond, right? Notice that the basic design is a Roman victory column? (One of the original design proposals for the Davis Monument was to construct a triumphal arch across Broad Street...) Southerners are good at self-delusion.My grandfather always told us kids that the South never lost the Civil War; they just suspended operations on account of a lack of money. But, he said, every time we bought a Dixie cup...
Judy G. Russell
January 15th, 2009, 08:26 AM
Because of the heat? TX is much less humid than MO.No, because MO is more blue than TX.
Lindsey
January 16th, 2009, 01:32 AM
My grandfather always told us kids that the South never lost the Civil War; they just suspended operations on account of a lack of money. But, he said, every time we bought a Dixie cup...
LOL!!
Mike
January 16th, 2009, 03:45 AM
No, because MO is more blue than TX.
OIC. I'm less concerned about what the state as a whole might do as I am about my neighbors.
Look at CA's colors. We're blue along the coast, but most of the inland is red, red, red.
Judy G. Russell
January 16th, 2009, 10:17 AM
OIC. I'm less concerned about what the state as a whole might do as I am about my neighbors. Look at CA's colors. We're blue along the coast, but most of the inland is red, red, red.I hear you, but I'd like to feel safe more than a few miles from where I live, too!
Mike
January 17th, 2009, 03:03 AM
I hear you, but I'd like to feel safe more than a few miles from where I live, too!
That's where I figure the airport will be handy!
Judy G. Russell
January 17th, 2009, 08:28 AM
That's where I figure the airport will be handy!Good point!
Mike
January 18th, 2009, 02:34 AM
<beam!>
ndebord
January 18th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Considering that it is probably the longest lasting indelible stain agent known to man, I'd say "amazing" works as a descriptor!
Judy,
No wonder Lee invaded Pennsylvania. He wanted to get away from the red clay!
;-)
ndebord
January 18th, 2009, 07:08 PM
OIC. I'm less concerned about what the state as a whole might do as I am about my neighbors.
Look at CA's colors. We're blue along the coast, but most of the inland is red, red, red.
Mike,
That red, red, red is from the desert heat which has boiled its residents' brains!
<ggggg>
MollyM/CA
January 18th, 2009, 09:05 PM
And some inland counties went blue (by a handful of votes) only because of recent incursions of Bay Area commuters. It was really scary, looking at the election map of CA as the night went on.
I expect to see some changes with the new redistricting -- different gerrymandering?
m
Lindsey
January 18th, 2009, 09:42 PM
I expect to see some changes with the new redistricting -- different gerrymandering?
Somewhere I read that California would likely lose one CD after the next census, and if that's true, then that alone would make the gerrymandering different!
I'd really like to see the drawing of district boundaries taken out of the hands of the legislature, though, and put in the hands of an independent commission. A couple of states already do that -- I think Iowa is one -- and I'd like to see all of them do it that way.
Judy G. Russell
January 18th, 2009, 10:50 PM
No wonder Lee invaded Pennsylvania. He wanted to get away from the red clay! ;-)Lee was a smart man...
Mike
January 19th, 2009, 03:45 AM
That red, red, red is from the desert heat which has boiled its residents' brains!
And maybe the hexavalent chromium, too?
Mike
January 19th, 2009, 03:56 AM
Actually, a few counties farther from the Bay Area also went blue, which really surprised me. I wonder how much of of the change, as minor as it is, is due to the public's disdain for the soon-to-be-ex-President.
Mike
January 19th, 2009, 04:01 AM
I'd really like to see the drawing of district boundaries taken out of the hands of the legislature, though, and put in the hands of an independent commission.
That was a proposition in the election, which passed 63.5% to 36.5%. Unfortunately, it only applies to CA representatives. US House districts still are set by the state legislature, although [t]he measure imposes additional requirements that the Legislature must consider when drawing these districts. Among the new requirements is that the Legislature maintain neighborhoods and “communities of interest” within one district to the extent possible. (The term communities of interest is not defined by the measure.)
ndebord
January 19th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Lee was a smart man...
Judy,
I don't read a lot of Civil War histories, but I was browsing the other day and found one in which the premise was that Lee's attack in the center was not a mistake but was done to focus the Union's attention as Stuart was supposed to attack the rear, but Custer (yes that Custer) foiled it.
[General Lee] said in a voice tremulous with emotion: "I never saw troops behave more magnificently than Pickett's division of Virginians did to-day [sic] in that grand charge upon the enemy. And if they had been supported as they were to have been--but for some reason not yet explained to me, were not--we would have held the position and the day would have been ours." After a moment's pause he added in a loud voice, in a tone almost of agony, "Too bad! Too bad! OH! TOO BAD!"
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Triumph-Lees-Gettysburg-Failed/dp/0425207919
Judy G. Russell
January 19th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I don't read a lot of Civil War histories, but I was browsing the other day and found one in which the premise was that Lee's attack in the center was not a mistake but was done to focus the Union's attention as Stuart was supposed to attack the rear, but Custer (yes that Custer) foiled it.Custer was also, generally speaking, a very smart man... who made one big mistake...
Lindsey
January 20th, 2009, 02:05 AM
That was a proposition in the election, which passed 63.5% to 36.5%. Unfortunately, it only applies to CA representatives. US House districts still are set by the state legislature, although [t]he measure imposes additional requirements that the Legislature must consider when drawing these districts. Among the new requirements is that the Legislature maintain neighborhoods and “communities of interest” within one district to the extent possible. (The term communities of interest is not defined by the measure.)
Well, at least that's a step in the right direction! If it works well for the state House districts, then maybe it will be possible to extend it to cover Congressional districts as well.
Lindsey
January 20th, 2009, 02:59 AM
Judy,
I don't read a lot of Civil War histories, but I was browsing the other day and found one in which the premise was that Lee's attack in the center was not a mistake but was done to focus the Union's attention as Stuart was supposed to attack the rear, but Custer (yes that Custer) foiled it.
[General Lee] said in a voice tremulous with emotion: "I never saw troops behave more magnificently than Pickett's division of Virginians did to-day [sic] in that grand charge upon the enemy. And if they had been supported as they were to have been--but for some reason not yet explained to me, were not--we would have held the position and the day would have been ours." After a moment's pause he added in a loud voice, in a tone almost of agony, "Too bad! Too bad! OH! TOO BAD!"
Pickett never forgave Lee for that. After the war, he told John S. Mosby, after the two had paid what turned out a very chilly courtesy call on Lee in Richmond, "That old man slaughtered my division at Gettysburg." (To which Mosby, after a pause, answered, "Well -- it made you immortal.")
But Lee didn't care for Pickett any more than Pickett cared for Lee. It was Pickett's part of the defensive line around Richmond that Grant's forces finally broke through at Five Forks, leading to the evacuation of Richmond. Pickett was away at a shad bake when the Union forces attacked, and by the time he returned to the battlefield, it was too late to do anything. Lee was less than pleased, though truth to be told, Grant would have broken the line at some point, it was just a question of when.
Longstreet had tried to talk Lee out of remaining on the offensive after the first day at Gettysburg; he wanted to force the Union Army to attack, because he felt the defenders had an inherent advantage, and they had used that strategy to good effect at Fredericksburg. Years later, Edward Porter Alexander, who was in charge of the artillery for Longstreet's Corps at Gettysburg, did fault Lee for some of the decisions he made at Gettysburg, notably the decision to remain on the offensive after the first day of the battle, and in the selection of the place for Pickett's attack. But he gives a very thoughtful analysis in Fighting for the Confederacy in which he outlines a number of things that went wrong in the course of that battle, not all of them Lee's fault.
My great-grandfather was with the 1st Virginia Infantry, which was part of Pickett's Division. I don't know for sure whether he was part of the charge at Gettysburg, though. He was a regimental quartermaster sergeant, and he may have been in the rear with the supply wagons, I don't know. But lucky for me he survived the war, or I wouldn't be here!
Mike
January 20th, 2009, 05:26 AM
...maybe it will be possible to extend it to cover Congressional districts as well.
I'm sure hoping! It will take another proposition, but I have more optimism here than I did when I lived in oHIo. In that case, the state had a ballot issue to start term limits. It passed by a wide margin, but the incumbent idiots still were re-elected! WTF?
ndebord
January 20th, 2009, 08:22 AM
Custer was also, generally speaking, a very smart man... who made one big mistake...
Judy,
Smart, but with a flaw. Too aggressive for his own good and didn't listen well to others. <g> Reno supposedly told him not to do what made him famous (or is that infamous?).
ndebord
January 20th, 2009, 08:31 AM
Pickett never forgave Lee for that. After the war, he told John S. Mosby, after the two had paid what turned out a very chilly courtesy call on Lee in Richmond, "That old man slaughtered my division at Gettysburg." (To which Mosby, after a pause, answered, "Well -- it made you immortal.")
But Lee didn't care for Pickett any more than Pickett cared for Lee. It was Pickett's part of the defensive line around Richmond that Grant's forces finally broke through at Five Forks, leading to the evacuation of Richmond. Pickett was away at a shad bake when the Union forces attacked, and by the time he returned to the battlefield, it was too late to do anything. Lee was less than pleased, though truth to be told, Grant would have broken the line at some point, it was just a question of when.
Longstreet had tried to talk Lee out of remaining on the offensive after the first day at Gettysburg; he wanted to force the Union Army to attack, because he felt the defenders had an inherent advantage, and they had used that strategy to good effect at Fredericksburg. Years later, Edward Porter Alexander, who was in charge of the artillery for Longstreet's Corps at Gettysburg, did fault Lee for some of the decisions he made at Gettysburg, notably the decision to remain on the offensive after the first day of the battle, and in the selection of the place for Pickett's attack. But he gives a very thoughtful analysis in Fighting for the Confederacy in which he outlines a number of things that went wrong in the course of that battle, not all of them Lee's fault.
My great-grandfather was with the 1st Virginia Infantry, which was part of Pickett's Division. I don't know for sure whether he was part of the charge at Gettysburg, though. He was a regimental quartermaster sergeant, and he may have been in the rear with the supply wagons, I don't know. But lucky for me he survived the war, or I wouldn't be here!
Judy,
My great-grandfather joined right away with the 1st Minnesotans. But he was invalidated out at the battle of the James River with Typhus. After waking up in a dead tent in a field hospital after 3 days, <vbg> he went to Seminary school and became a Luthern minister (He was a Lt., who got the job because he was the local J.P.).
ndebord
January 20th, 2009, 08:49 AM
And maybe the hexavalent chromium, too?
Mike,
Chromium.... shudder... Lived in Hoboken NJ for a bit and they tore down a couple of expensive condos built on top of old industrial sites that had that stuff.
ndebord
January 20th, 2009, 09:38 AM
I'm sure hoping! It will take another proposition, but I have more optimism here than I did when I lived in oHIo. In that case, the state had a ballot issue to start term limits. It passed by a wide margin, but the incumbent idiots still were re-elected! WTF?
Mike,
Gerrymandering... a plague on the house of democracy. As for term limits, I have always held that 3 terms is the magic number, no more, no less.
Mike
January 21st, 2009, 04:11 AM
Chromium....
Unfortunately, in the Central Valley in CA, quite a few families got sick from all the hexavalent chromium in the groundwater. (Watch Erin Brockovich for more information.)
Jeff
January 21st, 2009, 11:29 AM
Unfortunately, in the Central Valley in CA, quite a few families got sick from all the hexavalent chromium in the groundwater. (Watch Erin Brockovich for more information.)
OMG. That had a factual basis?
- Jeff
Judy G. Russell
January 21st, 2009, 02:21 PM
... with a flaw. Too aggressive for his own good and didn't listen well to othersSigh... and how many others have we encountered like that... recently!?
Judy G. Russell
January 21st, 2009, 02:29 PM
My great-grandfather joined right away with the 1st Minnesotans. But he was invalidated out at the battle of the James River with Typhus. After waking up in a dead tent in a field hospital after 3 days, <vbg> he went to Seminary school and became a Luthern minister (He was a Lt., who got the job because he was the local J.P.).Neat story! I may, or may not, have anyone in my direct line who served. In most of my lines, the male was either too old or too young. However, my great great grandfather Baird is a bit of an enigma. The family story is that his name was Jasper Baird, son of William Baird, of Cherokee County AL, who went out one day in the early 1870s through Indian country and was never heard from again. My great great grandmother then married Abigah Livingston, produced another eight kids, moved to Texas and the family remained there (or moved to Oklahoma). There's a hitch. The only Jasper Baird, son of William Baird, I can find in the area of Cherokee County AL at the right time didn't die in the 1870s. He died in 1909 in a Confederate Soldiers' Home in Arkansas. The possibilities: (a) a major coincidence of names and this isn't the right Jasper Baird; (b) he and my great great grandmother were never married; (c) he and my great great grandmother were divorced (something families at that time would not admit); or (d) he abandoned my great great grandmother and their daughter. So far I have no reason not to think that this is (a) rather than (b), (c) or (d), so I could be descended from a Confederate!
ndebord
January 21st, 2009, 09:58 PM
Neat story! I may, or may not, have anyone in my direct line who served. In most of my lines, the male was either too old or too young. However, my great great grandfather Baird is a bit of an enigma. The family story is that his name was Jasper Baird, son of William Baird, of Cherokee County AL, who went out one day in the early 1870s through Indian country and was never heard from again. My great great grandmother then married Abigah Livingston, produced another eight kids, moved to Texas and the family remained there (or moved to Oklahoma). There's a hitch. The only Jasper Baird, son of William Baird, I can find in the area of Cherokee County AL at the right time didn't die in the 1870s. He died in 1909 in a Confederate Soldiers' Home in Arkansas. The possibilities: (a) a major coincidence of names and this isn't the right Jasper Baird; (b) he and my great great grandmother were never married; (c) he and my great great grandmother were divorced (something families at that time would not admit); or (d) he abandoned my great great grandmother and their daughter. So far I have no reason not to think that this is (a) rather than (b), (c) or (d), so I could be descended from a Confederate!
One of my ancient relatives said that our family on my mother's side came over from Germany in 1837 and someone fought in the Mexican American war, but I can't find anything to document that, unlike the Civil War, where I have mY great-grandfather's diary. Nobody in the family, until this generation went to Texas and to be pioneer stock in Indian country is a great adventure in hindsight and not so exciting if you had to live through it! Always wanted to be a cowboy until I spent time in Army bases in the south and then decided that the SW also was also not a good place to be for a northern boy like myself.
Although my great-grandfather has the most bone-chilling story I've heard about in our family tree, I grew up listening to my Uncle who mustanged up to Lt. in WWII in the Marines and then stuck around in the reserves long enough to be called back for Korea. The stories he told me when I was a kid enthralled me. (By that time, he was a friendly drunk... one war too many.) I wish he had written a diary, but don't think there is anything other than his stories to tell his tale. My grandfather had a battery of French 75s in WWI, but he died shortly after I was born and his widow was a pacifist and never talked about her husband's role in that war. He tried to get back in for WWII but was deemed too old and trained raw recruits for the duration. As for my father, he was given a medical discharge after sleepwalking on a DE in the South Pacific in '43. Come to think about it, I don't think my family has missed a war and with the exception of my Uncle, up to my generation everyone was a citizen soldier. Now, of course, I have seen 3 of this generation in the military since 9/11 and now, only one. Two got out (a niece with two kids to raise and a nephew who decided that life was better as a civilian). The one who is still in is definitely a lifer. (My son the cop managed to be between generations of warfighters.)
Judy G. Russell
January 21st, 2009, 10:31 PM
I don't think my family has missed a war and with the exception of my Uncle, up to my generation everyone was a citizen soldier.The Civil War may be the only one my family missed, depending on whether or not I'm descended from that Jasper Baird. I even had grandfathers on both sides of WWI!
Lindsey
January 21st, 2009, 11:52 PM
My great-grandfather joined right away with the 1st Minnesotans. But he was invalidated out at the battle of the James River with Typhus. After waking up in a dead tent in a field hospital after 3 days, <vbg> he went to Seminary school and became a Luthern minister (He was a Lt., who got the job because he was the local J.P.).
This is interesting -- these guys are nearly mirror images of one another. My great-grandfather joined the 1st Virginia at the beginning of the war, as well -- April 21, 1861, shortly after Virginia seceded. He was wounded at the Battle of Fredericksburg, and the family story is that he was reported killed. A family member (if the story is true, I suspect it was his brother-in-law, who was a cabinetmaker in the employ of Belvin & Atkinson, a furniture manufacturer who doubled -- as many carpentry and cabinetmaking firms did in those days -- as undertakers) travelled to the army camp there to collect his body. Apparently, my great-grandfather was within earshot (or quickly notified) when his relative presented himself to the officer in charge and announced that he had come for the body of William Harper Dean He impishly walked up to his relative, tapped him on the shoulder, pointed to the carpet bag he was carrying, and asked, "You planning to put me in that damned thing?"
Battle of the James River: this may be another case of nomenclature differences between northern and southern names for battles, but do you mean what is commonly called here the Battle of Seven Pines, (a.k.a. the Battle of Fair Oaks), May 31-June1, 1862? It was part of McClellan's Peninsula Campaign, quickly followed by the Seven Days Battles. A history that I read of the First Virginia said that participants in the Battle of Seven Pines said it was the fiercest fighting they experienced during the entire war, even worse than Gettysburg. Of course, they may have been influenced by the fact that it was the first fighting that most of them had seen, but it was indeed fierce -- second only to Shiloh at that point in terms of casualties, among them the Confederate general Joe Johnston, which is how Robert E. Lee came to assume command of what he would call the Army of Northern Virginia.
I live on part of that battlefield, as does my sister, and I'm sure the property my parents live on was trampled by both armies at that time, too. The road along which my sister lives was the route of the Union army advance on Fair Oaks Station, and farmhouses behind her property were used as army field hospitals. When I was a kid, it was nothing for people to dig up minié balls and uniform buttons in their back yards.
After my great-grandfather retired from the tobacco business, around 1900, he bought a farm not a mile down the road from where my sister now lives. I have often wondered how he felt about living on the site of a bloody battle in which he had been a participant.
Mike
January 22nd, 2009, 04:45 AM
[Erin Brockovich] OMG. That had a factual basis?
Yup. There really is an Erin Brockovich, and the movie pretty much is a bio.
Judy G. Russell
January 22nd, 2009, 08:29 AM
I have often wondered how he felt about living on the site of a bloody battle in which he had been a participant.Probably grateful to be alive.
ndebord
January 22nd, 2009, 09:12 AM
This is interesting -- these guys are nearly mirror images of one another. My great-grandfather joined the 1st Virginia at the beginning of the war, as well -- April 21, 1861, shortly after Virginia seceded. He was wounded at the Battle of Fredericksburg, and the family story is that he was reported killed. A family member (if the story is true, I suspect it was his brother-in-law, who was a cabinetmaker in the employ of Belvin & Atkinson, a furniture manufacturer who doubled -- as many carpentry and cabinetmaking firms did in those days -- as undertakers) travelled to the army camp there to collect his body. Apparently, my great-grandfather was within earshot (or quickly notified) when his relative presented himself to the officer in charge and announced that he had come for the body of William Harper Dean He impishly walked up to his relative, tapped him on the shoulder, pointed to the carpet bag he was carrying, and asked, "You planning to put me in that damned thing?"
Battle of the James River: this may be another case of nomenclature differences between northern and southern names for battles, but do you mean what is commonly called here the Battle of Seven Pines, (a.k.a. the Battle of Fair Oaks), May 31-June1, 1862? It was part of McClellan's Peninsula Campaign, quickly followed by the Seven Days Battles. A history that I read of the First Virginia said that participants in the Battle of Seven Pines said it was the fiercest fighting they experienced during the entire war, even worse than Gettysburg. Of course, they may have been influenced by the fact that it was the first fighting that most of them had seen, but it was indeed fierce -- second only to Shiloh at that point in terms of casualties, among them the Confederate general Joe Johnston, which is how Robert E. Lee came to assume command of what he would call the Army of Northern Virginia.
I live on part of that battlefield, as does my sister, and I'm sure the property my parents live on was trampled by both armies at that time, too. The road along which my sister lives was the route of the Union army advance on Fair Oaks Station, and farmhouses behind her property were used as army field hospitals. When I was a kid, it was nothing for people to dig up minié balls and uniform buttons in their back yards.
After my great-grandfather retired from the tobacco business, around 1900, he bought a farm not a mile down the road from where my sister now lives. I have often wondered how he felt about living on the site of a bloody battle in which he had been a participant.
Lindsey,
I don't know if it was the Battle of Seven Pines or the Seven days Battles, as he kept referring to it as the Battle of the James River, but then as he was found by his men on the banks of the James River, that is what he wrote in his journal (he said that he was there for 24 hours or so, unable to move). I often wondered if he ever went to the Gettysburg reunion, but as he was not there for the battle and as his journal stopped with his return to Minnesota, I tend to doubt it. By the time I was interested in history, we were not in touch with that branch of the family and there was no one alive to tell me secondhand stories from his mouth to their ears. My grandmother gave me the journal late in her life as she knew that I was then interested in military history (this being after I came back from 'Nam).
Fredericksburg, by all accounts, was one of the bloodiest battles fought. That dark, impish sense of humor you mention is very common in battle, but few can carry it off. I was a joke a minute kind of guy, mainly to convince myself that running the other way was a bad idea. <weak grin> My wife says my humor is corn fed (that is her good definition of it!) and constant to the point of overkill, but she, I'm quite sure, is just pulling my leg!
It's funny that some people are squeamish about living on a battlefield (or a cemetery) since every plot of earth has probably been fought over in the space of human life on this planet. To live with history ever present, gives you great opportunity to revisit the past, if you are of a mind to do that kind of thing. Where I grew up, we dug up arrowheads (Kawkawlin, MI) all the time as we lived just off the ridge which was the original path and next to a river so there were tribes living all over our neighborhood.
Jeff
January 22nd, 2009, 11:46 AM
Yup. There really is an Erin Brockovich, and the movie pretty much is a bio.
I had no idea, and that misapprehension may be fairly widespread. I just rechecked my Maltin's movie guide and all it says about a factual basis is "That's the real Erin Brockovich playing a waitress."
- Jeff
Dan in Saint Louis
January 22nd, 2009, 02:51 PM
"That's the real Erin Brockovich playing a waitress."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Brockovich
Lindsey
January 22nd, 2009, 05:26 PM
I had no idea, and that misapprehension may be fairly widespread. I just rechecked my Maltin's movie guide and all it says about a factual basis is "That's the real Erin Brockovich playing a waitress."
A waitress, BTW, that they called "Julia R." ;)
Lindsey
January 22nd, 2009, 05:27 PM
Probably grateful to be alive.
You're probably right about that!
Lindsey
January 22nd, 2009, 06:17 PM
I don't know if it was the Battle of Seven Pines or the Seven days Battles, as he kept referring to it as the Battle of the James River, but then as he was found by his men on the banks of the James River, that is what he wrote in his journal (he said that he was there for 24 hours or so, unable to move).
Hmmm, well, the 1st Minnesota fought at Seven Pines, as part of Sedgewick's Division, but they were involved in McClellan's entire Peninsula Campaign, at Yorktown, Savage's Station, White Oak Swamp, and Malvern Hill in addition to Seven Pines. The Seven Pines battle, and most of the other Seven Days battles, would have been closer to the Chickahominy than to the James, but Malvern Hill is right there at the James River, and from Malvern Hill McClellan retreated to Harrison's Landing on the James, from which place the troops were evacuated. I wonder if Malvern Hill is the battle he meant? Then, too, in advancing along the York Peninsula, they were marching between the James and York Rivers (and further inland, between the James and the Pamunkey and Mattaponi Rivers, which feed into the York, and along the Chickahominy, which feeds into the James). So I suppose in general terms, he could have been referring to the entire Campaign.
Mike
January 23rd, 2009, 04:09 AM
I just rechecked my Maltin's movie guide and all it says about a factual basis is "That's the real Erin Brockovich playing a waitress."
That's sad. Indeed, the real Erin Brockovich played a waitress in the movie in a cameo, but her own story is reflected in the movie.
Dan's link is a good one, as is Erin's personal site (http://www.brockovich.com/).
ndebord
January 23rd, 2009, 09:09 PM
Hmmm, well, the 1st Minnesota fought at Seven Pines, as part of Sedgewick's Division, but they were involved in McClellan's entire Peninsula Campaign, at Yorktown, Savage's Station, White Oak Swamp, and Malvern Hill in addition to Seven Pines. The Seven Pines battle, and most of the other Seven Days battles, would have been closer to the Chickahominy than to the James, but Malvern Hill is right there at the James River, and from Malvern Hill McClellan retreated to Harrison's Landing on the James, from which place the troops were evacuated. I wonder if Malvern Hill is the battle he meant? Then, too, in advancing along the York Peninsula, they were marching between the James and York Rivers (and further inland, between the James and the Pamunkey and Mattaponi Rivers, which feed into the York, and along the Chickahominy, which feeds into the James). So I suppose in general terms, he could have been referring to the entire Campaign.
Lindsey,
I see you have explored it in far more detail than I. Unfortunately, if there were discussions between my ancestors about the details of his journal, I'm not privy to them and I don't think there is any other place to get that info. My grandmother, who was interested, said that she only had the journal and hadn't talked to him herself about the Civil War. But my grandmother was a formidable woman and I never, ever questioned her about anything... just said "Yes M"am" and did whatever she told me to do.
Lindsey
January 28th, 2009, 01:44 AM
I see you have explored it in far more detail than I. Unfortunately, if there were discussions between my ancestors about the details of his journal, I'm not privy to them and I don't think there is any other place to get that info. My grandmother, who was interested, said that she only had the journal and hadn't talked to him herself about the Civil War. But my grandmother was a formidable woman and I never, ever questioned her about anything... just said "Yes M"am" and did whatever she told me to do.
Well, as I said, I live right on the battlefield!
I'll bet if you ever wanted to look into it in detail, you could look at your great-grandfather's service record at the National Archives and that may well tell you just where he fell ill. But the Peninsula Campaign, and the Seven Days in particular, is the only fighting that I can think of that took place at least partly along the James River.
When I was a kid, you could still see faint remnants of trenches on the airport grounds (which were probably more from the 1865 siege of Richmond). Until 10 or 15 years ago, you could still see Civil War trenches in a largely undeveloped area north of the city where J.E.B. Stuart made his famous ride around McClellan's lines during the Seven Days Battles. Now there's a shopping mall there. {sigh}
Do you know if anyone in your family still has the journal? If someone does, it might be worth considering donating it to an appropriate archive, where it could (hopefully) receive proper archival treatment against deterioration. Diaries of ordinary soldiers can be wonderful sources.
ndebord
January 28th, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, as I said, I live right on the battlefield!
I'll bet if you ever wanted to look into it in detail, you could look at your great-grandfather's service record at the National Archives and that may well tell you just where he fell ill. But the Peninsula Campaign, and the Seven Days in particular, is the only fighting that I can think of that took place at least partly along the James River.
When I was a kid, you could still see faint remnants of trenches on the airport grounds (which were probably more from the 1865 siege of Richmond). Until 10 or 15 years ago, you could still see Civil War trenches in a largely undeveloped area north of the city where J.E.B. Stuart made his famous ride around McClellan's lines during the Seven Days Battles. Now there's a shopping mall there. {sigh}
Do you know if anyone in your family still has the journal? If someone does, it might be worth considering donating it to an appropriate archive, where it could (hopefully) receive proper archival treatment against deterioration. Diaries of ordinary soldiers can be wonderful sources.
Lindsey,
I have the journal, not in pristine condition, as it was stored in my mother's basement... and she lived by a river... and so eventually it was damaged, but readable. I was a bit of a rolling stone after 'Nam for some years and so did not travel with a large amount of possessions.
Lindsey
January 29th, 2009, 02:40 AM
I have the journal, not in pristine condition, as it was stored in my mother's basement... and she lived by a river... and so eventually it was damaged, but readable. I was a bit of a rolling stone after 'Nam for some years and so did not travel with a large amount of possessions.
Oh, that's fantastic! Do give some thought to donating it to an archive at some point. That's a way to preserve it for the long term.
Some months back, I read an account of the life of a midwife named Martha Ballard, who lived on the Maine frontier during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, based chiefly on her diary. It wasn't a full transcript of the actual diary; the entries in it were quite short and seemingly mundane. Rather, Laura Ulrich, the historian putting the account together, divided the book into chronological sections, each emphasizing a particular theme. She started each section with maybe a month's worth of entries from the journal, and then in the rest of the section, expanded on the entries, explaining the background against which they were written, filling in further information about people, events, and common practices from town records and other sources, and using it to illustrate some aspect of life, especially the life of women, in a New England town in that period. The book (A Midwife's Tale) won a Pulitzer Prize and was the subject of an episode of PBS's "American Experience".
This was just an ordinary woman, remarkable chiefly for having kept her diary so faithfully over so many years. It is thus all the more remarkable that her diary even survives. It was passed down to a granddaughter -- or maybe great-granddaughter, I can't remember -- who was one of the early women doctors in the 19th century. She in turn donated it (or willed it) to an archive in Massachusetts, where it has been as a supplemental source in a number of histories of post-colonial New England, and was there for the very patient and thorough Laura Ulrich to tease out the fuller story of the diarist's own life.
I had a funny experience several years ago. I had to take a business trip to IBM's disaster recovery facility at Sterling Forest, NY, to take care of the remote end of our annual Business Recovery Plan testing. Sterling Forest is right on the border between New York and New Jersey. My mother's Rackett ancestors were from Orange County, NY, and since I was going to be right there, I decided to take a few days of vacation to do some research at the local archives. I spent part of two days at the Orange County Genealogical Society in Goshen, and I found there a manuscript copy of a three-part article about the Rackett family that had been written for the NYG&BS Register by genealogist Betty Bradway, along with photocopies from the Rackett family Bible, which had evidently belonged to my 4g-grandfather and had entries in his hand. Imagine my surprise when I checked the footnotes in the article and discovered that the original of that Bible is located in the archives of the Library of Virginia -- not 10 minutes from my house! Evidently, it was inherited by my gg-grandfather, who brought it with him when he moved his family to Richmond after the Civil War.
Judy G. Russell
January 29th, 2009, 08:58 AM
I checked the footnotes in the article and discovered that the original of that Bible is located in the archives of the Library of Virginia -- not 10 minutes from my house! Evidently, it was inherited by my gg-grandfather, who brought it with him when he moved his family to Richmond after the Civil War.Oh man... what I would give for a find like that...
Lindsey
January 30th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Oh man... what I would give for a find like that...
I certainly never expected anything like that in my family! Nobody ever saves anything! The cool thing was that it was very clear who had made the early entries, because they are written in the form "My brother Absalom...", "My sister Hannah...," My dawter Hannah...", "My daughter Azuba...".
Judy G. Russell
January 30th, 2009, 11:54 AM
I certainly never expected anything like that in my family! Nobody ever saves anything! The cool thing was that it was very clear who had made the early entries, because they are written in the form "My brother Absalom...", "My sister Hannah...," My dawter Hannah...", "My daughter Azuba...".That's just terrific! Me, I get things like repeated references to a "David Baker Bible" which no-one living has ever seen...
Lindsey
January 31st, 2009, 02:05 AM
That's just terrific! Me, I get things like repeated references to a "David Baker Bible" which no-one living has ever seen...
There was one entry that explained I had seen on my father side of the family tree. My great-aunt Winnie was the keeper of all of the information about her mother's family. She had the line back to Isaac Loofborrow's parents, father's name John, exact birth and death dates, also exact birth and death dates for Isaac's mother -- but no name. "How can you know the exact birth and death dates and not know the person's name?" I wondered.
Well -- there is an entry in Samuel Rackett's Bible that says simply, "Our mother was born in the ^May^ year 1711 and died in the year 1750 [of?] October." No name. Just "our mother." (Fortunately, there is other documentation that says that her maiden name was Hannah King; she was the Widow Tuthill when she married Jonathan Rackett.)
Does he do that with his father? Oh, no; for his father it's "Jonathan Rackett the father of Samuel Rackett was born August 14th 1714." No ambiguity there! :rolleyes:
Post hoc: It occurs to me I am being a little unfair to Samuel here. He was the youngest child, and was born in 1749, so he would not have been old enough to remember his mother when she died in 1750. His father remarried in 1753; his stepmother would be the only mother he would have known, and he may not even have known what his real mother's name was.
Judy G. Russell
January 31st, 2009, 07:35 AM
It occurs to me I am being a little unfair to Samuel here. He was the youngest child, and was born in 1749, so he would not have been old enough to remember his mother when she died in 1750. His father remarried in 1753; his stepmother would be the only mother he would have known, and he may not even have known what his real mother's name was.That's probably being too kind. The fact is, women just weren't recorded in the same way in most records. I have seen a photocopy of a Wiseman family Bible where the father is listed in all details and the wife as "Mary, wife of William." Fortunately, the German records I'm working with at the moment give a lot more detail, but still emphasizing the patrilineal: "Geissler, Hugo Ernst, son of Hermann Geissler and Emma, nee Graumüller, dau of Johann Christian Graumüller..."
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