"That One"

[Judy G. Russell]

You knew it had to happen, right?

[ktinkel]

You knew it had to happen, right?The tee-shirt? Or the insulting comment in last night’s debate?

What on earth is wrong with McCain? He still seemed unable/unwilling to look at Obama.

[Judy G. Russell]

The tee-shirt? Or the insulting comment in last night’s debate?Both, of course!

What on earth is wrong with McCain? He still seemed unable/unwilling to look at Obama.It appears, intentionally or not, that McCain truly does not believe he should have to be sharing the stage with the likes of "that one." Whether it's a sense of entitlement -- that he deserves to be President -- or a dislike of Obama -- or something else, it is unsettling and doing him no good whatsoever. He was far better last night than in the first debate, but still not good.

[ndebord]

Both, of course!

It appears, intentionally or not, that McCain truly does not believe he should have to be sharing the stage with the likes of "that one." Whether it's a sense of entitlement -- that he deserves to be President -- or a dislike of Obama -- or something else, it is unsettling and doing him no good whatsoever. He was far better last night than in the first debate, but still not good.

Judy,

Neither candidate strayed far afield from their stump speeches, but McCain couldn't seem to string together anything longer than a few phrases, and often disjointed at that. He did well only when he thumped his chest and extolled his service to his country and his belief that this made him an expert in foreign affairs; kind of an ersatz remake of Kiplingism, a poor analogy I know.

[ndebord]

The tee-shirt? Or the insulting comment in last night’s debate?

What on earth is wrong with McCain? He still seemed unable/unwilling to look at Obama.

Kathleen,

Third generation Naval royalty: a continuation of a long trend in the Navy going back to Preble, Rodgers, Decatur (sp) and Stewart (just to name a few).

There is a level of entitlement there that is pretty much unmatched in any other branch of our military.

[ktinkel]

Both, of course!

It appears, intentionally or not, that McCain truly does not believe he should have to be sharing the stage with the likes of "that one." Whether it's a sense of entitlement -- that he deserves to be President -- or a dislike of Obama -- or something else, it is unsettling and doing him no good whatsoever. He was far better last night than in the first debate, but still not good.Well, I don’t particularly want him to succeed, so not doing good is fine with me (a bit boring, but hey! the price of democracy).

But if he wins with such a lame performance, it will be very painful.

[Judy G. Russell]

Neither candidate strayed far afield from their stump speeches, but McCain couldn't seem to string together anything longer than a few phrases, and often disjointed at that. He did well only when he thumped his chest and extolled his service to his country and his belief that this made him an expert in foreign affairs; kind of an ersatz remake of Kiplingism, a poor analogy I know.What I wanna know is, if he knows how to get Osama bin Laden, and knows how to do all the other things he says he knows how to do, how come he hasn't shared that knowledge with anybody??? And if it's so @#$%$ important to be ready to be President without on-the-job training, why in the name of all that's holy did he pick Miss Dodo for his vice presidential candidate???

[Judy G. Russell]

Well, I don’t particularly want him to succeed, so not doing good is fine with me (a bit boring, but hey! the price of democracy). But if he wins with such a lame performance, it will be very painful.It will be worse than painful... especially if (God forbid!!!) anything should happen to him and we should be left with the likes of that idiot from the frozen north!

[Mike]

You knew it had to happen, right?
I used to use that term to refer to someone else when I was trying to be funny, and usually, someone would laugh.

I've been doing it since high school, but I won't be saying it any more!

[ndebord]

What I wanna know is, if he knows how to get Osama bin Laden, and knows how to do all the other things he says he knows how to do, how come he hasn't shared that knowledge with anybody??? And if it's so @#$%$ important to be ready to be President without on-the-job training, why in the name of all that's holy did he pick Miss Dodo for his vice presidential candidate???

Judy,

He just went back to the philosophy that the only thing a VP is good for is to go out for coffee and sandwiches.

(Plus, of course, her presence shores up the fundamentalist base of the No Nothing Party.)

[Judy G. Russell]

I used to use that term to refer to someone else when I was trying to be funny, and usually, someone would laugh. I've been doing it since high school, but I won't be saying it any more!Let's hope we all regain our senses of humor soon.

[Judy G. Russell]

He just went back to the philosophy that the only thing a VP is good for is to go out for coffee and sandwiches. (Plus, of course, her presence shores up the fundamentalist base of the No Nothing Party.)I just find it so absolutely amazing that the John McCain of 2000 could have changed so much. Does he want to be President that badly? Don't answer that... it's purely rhetorical.

[ktinkel]

Kathleen,

Third generation Naval royalty: a continuation of a long trend in the Navy going back to Preble, Rodgers, Decatur (sp) and Stewart (just to name a few).

There is a level of entitlement there that is pretty much unmatched in any other branch of our military.Even among doofuses and low-scorers, huh?

[ndebord]

Even among doofuses and low-scorers, huh?

Kathleen,

Particularly among those! Family first (grades are for the middles classes).

[ndebord]

You knew it had to happen, right?


Judy,

thought up a variation


"I'm voting for THAT half-White one."

(good for voters in southern Ohio and West Virginia as I just got done reading the latest New Yorker and am depressed beyond all belief right now.)

[Judy G. Russell]

(good for voters in southern Ohio and West Virginia as I just got done reading the latest New Yorker and am depressed beyond all belief right now.)It surely is depressing to think that there could still be that sort of bias, but keep in mind: it has only been in our lifetimes that the racial situation here even started to be seriously redressed. Changing attitudes takes time -- generations, not just years.

[ndebord]

It surely is depressing to think that there could still be that sort of bias, but keep in mind: it has only been in our lifetimes that the racial situation here even started to be seriously redressed. Changing attitudes takes time -- generations, not just years.

Judy,

We don't have generations, nor years, not even months. We have 24 days to save the nation imo.

[ktinkel]

Judy,

We don't have generations, nor years, not even months. We have 24 days to save the nation imo.Unfortunately, I think I agree with you. Oy.

[Judy G. Russell]

We don't have generations, nor years, not even months. We have 24 days to save the nation imo.I tend to agree with you, and so have done everything I can, including doing something I have never done in my life: I donated money to a political campaign. Other than that, and voting, and urging people to vote, all I can do is hope and pray that the polls (Wash Post has Obama up by 10 points now) are right.

[sidney]

Wash Post has Obama up by 10 points now

fivethirtyeight.com has Obama's win probability up to 94.1%, their highest estimate yet.

They have an interesting article today about other ways to look at the statistics to put it in perspective. The only Presidential candidate to win who was as far behind in the Gallup polls in October as McCain is now since the first Gallup poll in 1936 was Reagan in 1980 (trailed 47 to 39 percent). That is one race out of 18, which 5.6% of the races, about the same as fivethirtyeight's estimate of McCain's chances.

There are more details in the article itself (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/another-way-to-look-at-mccains-odds.html), including pointing out that McCain is no Reagan and that Obama has more than the Gallup national average 7 point lead in the key states he needs to get the electoral majority so McCain would need to pick up another couple of points to actually win.

Still, good news but no time for complacency. As they say, vote early and vote often!

[Judy G. Russell]

The only Presidential candidate to win who was as far behind in the Gallup polls in October as McCain is now since the first Gallup poll in 1936 was Reagan in 1980 (trailed 47 to 39 percent).The Times says the same thing today. Gods, I wish election day was tomorrow instead of still three weeks away...

[ktinkel]

The Times says the same thing today. Gods, I wish election day was tomorrow instead of still three weeks away...Me, too. I keep thinking of monkey wrenches ready to be thrown — whether by politicians, the economy, mother nature, whomever.

[Judy G. Russell]

I keep thinking of monkey wrenches ready to be thrown — whether by politicians, the economy, mother nature, whomever.I keep thinking of 2000, and a popular vote win with an electoral vote loss. I don't think that's at all likely this time, but...

[ktinkel]

I keep thinking of 2000, and a popular vote win with an electoral vote loss. I don't think that's at all likely this time, but...Bite your tongue! <g>

[Dan in Saint Louis]

I keep thinking of 2000, and a popular vote win with an electoral vote loss. I don't think that's at all likely this time, but...An outcome present in 0.24% of fivethirtyeight.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/)'s scenarios.

[Judy G. Russell]

Bite your tongue! <g>It's just hard to believe that, somehow, this won't get stolen at the last minute...

[Judy G. Russell]

An outcome present in 0.24% of fivethirtyeight.com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/)'s scenarios.Anything above zero is too high a risk.

[ndebord]

It's just hard to believe that, somehow, this won't get stolen at the last minute...

Judy,

If this is a lawless regime (imo) and they are capable of doing anything to help a successor win power, particularly if that limits their future likelihood of being in the dock, then we are in for a mess come election day.

[Judy G. Russell]

If this is a lawless regime (imo) and they are capable of doing anything to help a successor win power, particularly if that limits their future likelihood of being in the dock, then we are in for a mess come election day.I suspect (I hope) these guys are the "you never did anything for me" types and, unless they're being paid for it and handsomely, will not lift a finger for McCain.

[ndebord]

I suspect (I hope) these guys are the "you never did anything for me" types and, unless they're being paid for it and handsomely, will not lift a finger for McCain.

Judy,

I think your reasoning here is suspect and that, like Nixon, these lineal descendents of his precepts know fully well that they have committed impeachable offenses.

[Jeff]

Me, too. I keep thinking of monkey wrenches ready to be thrown — whether by politicians, the economy, mother nature, whomever.

Oh, you mean like the fact that it has just been discovered that the mail-in ballots here require TWO stamps (long ballot), and the USPS will return any with just one. And that two stamp is not stated on the envelope, because the County Clerk didn't know that detail of the 2nd Law of Therm^H^H Murphy.

- Jeff

[ktinkel]

Oh, you mean like the fact that it has just been discovered that the mail-in ballots here require TWO stamps (long ballot), and the USPS will return any with just one. And that two stamp is not stated on the envelope, because the County Clerk didn't know that detail of the 2nd Law of Therm^H^H Murphy.O.M.G.

Holding head in hands.

[sidney]

and the USPS will return any with just one

I just read an article in which a spokesperson for the Post Office in Colorado said that the ballots would be delivered postage due and only returned if they were not accepted (and paid for, I assumed) at the destination, and the El Paso County (if I remember the name correctly) election commissioner said that they would not return any. I would guess that it is up to the individual county election board.

[Judy G. Russell]

I just read an article in which a spokesperson for the Post Office in Colorado said that the ballots would be delivered postage due and only returned if they were not accepted (and paid for, I assumed) at the destination, and the El Paso County (if I remember the name correctly) election commissioner said that they would not return any. I would guess that it is up to the individual county election board.The election board BETTER not return any. What a travesty!

[Judy G. Russell]

I think your reasoning here is suspect and that, like Nixon, these lineal descendents of his precepts know fully well that they have committed impeachable offenses.What do they care about impeachable offenses? Their terms are up the day the new President is sworn in. You can't impeach somebody who's already out of office.

[ndebord]

What do they care about impeachable offenses? Their terms are up the day the new President is sworn in. You can't impeach somebody who's already out of office.

Judy,

"In 1876, Secretary of War General William Belknap [who served in the scandal-plagued Republican administration of Pres. Ulysses Grant], accused of accepting a bribe, resigned just hours before the House was scheduled to consider articles of impeachment. The House went ahead and unanimously impeached him, and by a vote of 37-29 the Senate rejected the argument that Belknap’s resignation should abort the case. The Senate proceeded with the trial, but Belknap was narrowly acquitted. A number of the Senators who voted for acquittal explained that they felt they lacked jurisdiction because of his resignation…"

[Judy G. Russell]

"In 1876, Secretary of War General William Belknap [who served in the scandal-plagued Republican administration of Pres. Ulysses Grant], accused of accepting a bribe, resigned just hours before the House was scheduled to consider articles of impeachment. The House went ahead and unanimously impeached him, and by a vote of 37-29 the Senate rejected the argument that Belknap’s resignation should abort the case. The Senate proceeded with the trial, but Belknap was narrowly acquitted. A number of the Senators who voted for acquittal explained that they felt they lacked jurisdiction because of his resignation…"There's a big difference between a General officer and a President or Vice President. There are no terms of office for a General. We're not talking here about a President who resigns. We're talking about a President who's served out his term. Whether it's January 21, 2009 or 10 years later makes no difference. If he's out, he's out and there's nothing to impeach him from.

[ndebord]

There's a big difference between a General officer and a President or Vice President. There are no terms of office for a General. We're not talking here about a President who resigns. We're talking about a President who's served out his term. Whether it's January 21, 2009 or 10 years later makes no difference. If he's out, he's out and there's nothing to impeach him from.

Judy,

Surely there must be some recourse after he leaves office?

[Judy G. Russell]

Surely there must be some recourse after he leaves office?Realistically, the recourse against a President like that is to undo the damage he's done. He will slither off back to Crawford and whine about his legacy.

[Jeff]

I just read an article in which a spokesperson for the Post Office in Colorado said that the ballots would be delivered postage due and only returned if they were not accepted (and paid for, I assumed) at the destination, and the El Paso County (if I remember the name correctly) election commissioner said that they would not return any. I would guess that it is up to the individual county election board.

Just this morning I received back a lengthly email from the local County Clerk which says in essence that upon discovering the beginning of the debacle she opened an account with every PO in the county to pay for the missing postage; the one missing stamp or even all of it. "This ballot has an extra page causing the problem, but nevertheless next time we'll do better." And no one even had to go to the Supreme Court about it.

- Jeff

[Judy G. Russell]

Just this morning I received back a lengthly email from the local County Clerk which says in essence that upon discovering the beginning of the debacle she opened an account with every PO in the county to pay for the missing postage; the one missing stamp or even all of it. "This ballot has an extra page causing the problem, but nevertheless next time we'll do better." And no one even had to go to the Supreme Court about it.Good for her! An excellent solution.

[Bill Hirst]

So no evil conspiracy to disenfranchise swing voters--just a simple case of "oops." I commend the Clerk for promptly correcting the problem.

--Bill

[Jeff]

So no evil conspiracy to disenfranchise swing voters--just a simple case of "oops." I commend the Clerk for promptly correcting the problem.

--Bill

Yeah, she did about as promptly as a scalded cat, right after the problem became apparent. This is a "polling place" election, not mail only ballot, in spite of which requested mail ballots have gone out to about half of the population the county. Good Clerk, good mail returns, and I've told her so. The election won't go because of no-shows here.

- Jeff

[ktinkel]

As most of you probably know, the Al Smith dinner, a charity fund-raiser for Catholic charities of NYC, has an annual dinner for politicos. It usually* features mutual roasts by the two candidates in years with a presidential race. Last night Obama referred to himself as “that one,” which got a good laugh, even from McCain. (He also said some say he has the politics of Alfred E. Smith and the ears of Alfred E. Neuman, which got a better laugh.)

Obama was pretty good, though McCain was funnier — better sense of timing.


_______
*Usually, because four years ago the Catholic church, and in particular Cardinal Egan of NYC, had a fatwa out on Kerry for his public views on abortion. The cardinal didn’t want Kerry to appear, so they also did not invite Bush. So much for having a sense of humor.

[Peter Creasey]

the Al Smith dinner, a charity fund-raiser for Catholic charities of NYC, has an annual dinner for politicos. It usually* features mutual roasts by the two candidates ... McCain was funnier — better sense of timing.

K, McCain had a very funny reference to "that one".

As you suggest, McCain had the audience almost rolling in the aisles.

Here's a video (let him warm up before you judge) --> McCain Video (http://wcbstv.com/video/?id=118836@wcbs.dayport.com)

[Judy G. Russell]

Obama was pretty good, though McCain was funnier — better sense of timing.They both were pretty funny but yeah, I agree, McCain was funnier.

[ktinkel]

K, McCain had a very funny reference to "that one".True, though I think Obama’s reference to the term was good too.

McCain was especially cute when he said he was glad to see he had some supporters at the Democratic event, then pointed and said thank you to Hillary.

[ktinkel]

They both were pretty funny but yeah, I agree, McCain was funnier.There is an article in today’s Times on the dinner, explaining (sort of) how the jokes come about. Seems members of the campaign staffs (including the candidates) contribute some of them and assemble them into a talk, but some come from outside.

Something about that jocular exchange makes me uneasy. On the one hand — and this is what one usually hears — isn’t it civilized to see these sworn opponents exchanging an hour or two of pleasantries. But it also makes them both seem less sincere in their debates and rallies. It is as if it is all play-acting, which it may well be.

[Dodi Schultz]

Guess-it-was-funny-THEN department:

A friend just sent me a link to a piece published in January 2001, soon after George W's first inauguration:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784

--DS

[Judy G. Russell]

Something about that jocular exchange makes me uneasy. On the one hand — and this is what one usually hears — isn’t it civilized to see these sworn opponents exchanging an hour or two of pleasantries. But it also makes them both seem less sincere in their debates and rallies. It is as if it is all play-acting, which it may well be.I don't think John McCain's anger is play-acting at all.

[Judy G. Russell]

Guess-it-was-funny-THEN department:
A friend just sent me a link to a piece published in January 2001, soon after George W's first inauguration:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784Oh. My. Lord. Yeah, it may have been funny then. Now it seems prescient!

[ktinkel]

I don't think John McCain's anger is play-acting at all.I agree. But the forced jocularity is what I was reacting to. On both sides.

I think John McCain sees his legacy slipping away from him, and he is furious. I would hate to have to live with that man.

[ndebord]

I agree. But the forced jocularity is what I was reacting to. On both sides.

I think John McCain sees his legacy slipping away from him, and he is furious. I would hate to have to live with that man.

Kathleen,

If he loses, she won't have to. Prenup. He goes away with some of her money and she moves on. Probable? Probably not, but still...

[Judy G. Russell]

I agree. But the forced jocularity is what I was reacting to. On both sides. I think John McCain sees his legacy slipping away from him, and he is furious. I would hate to have to live with that man.You know, I'm not sure that Obama isn't genuinely enjoying some of this. Not the nastiness, but the idiocy of some of this must be entertaining in a way.

[ktinkel]

You know, I'm not sure that Obama isn't genuinely enjoying some of this. Not the nastiness, but the idiocy of some of this must be entertaining in a way.Yeah. Of course, that is what some describe as his “elitism” (I think they really mean “aloofness”).

There is an illuminating article on Obama (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/magazine/19obama-t.html) by Matt Bai in today’s New York Times Magazine. Bai did a good job on this piece. It filled in some of the gaps in my perception of Obama and his objectives.

[ktinkel]

Guess-it-was-funny-THEN department:

A friend just sent me a link to a piece published in January 2001, soon after George W's first inaugurationGot to admire the Onion — they had W pegged from Day One.

Too bad so few were paying attention. :(

[Judy G. Russell]

Yeah. Of course, that is what some describe as his “elitism” (I think they really mean “aloofness”).The guy is a bit aloof, or perhaps reserved is a better word. But I keep thinking that I don't want a "regular joe" as president (or even as a plumber!). I want somebody that I can regard as smarter than I am!

There is an illuminating article on Obama (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/magazine/19obama-t.html) by Matt Bai in today’s New York Times Magazine. Bai did a good job on this piece. It filled in some of the gaps in my perception of Obama and his objectives.I read that. Good job of reporting.

[ktinkel]

If he loses, she won't have to. Prenup. He goes away with some of her money and she moves on. Probable? Probably not, but still...I suppose. But that hardly affects the nation, right? His sex life doesn’t improve OUR quality of life! <g>

Actually, I think she likes him. FWIW.

[ndebord]

I suppose. But that hardly affects the nation, right? His sex life doesn’t improve OUR quality of life! <g>

Actually, I think she likes him. FWIW.

kathleen,

You're right. Despite his numerous affairs, she's stuck by her man.

[ktinkel]

The guy is a bit aloof, or perhaps reserved is a better word. But I keep thinking that I don't want a "regular joe" as president (or even as a plumber!). I want somebody that I can regard as smarter than I am!For president, more or less as smart, anyway — a generalist with really good judgment when it comes to advisers.

For a plumber, I am usually in the position of needing a brilliant specialist! Tout de suite!

[Judy G. Russell]

For president, more or less as smart, anyway — a generalist with really good judgment when it comes to advisers.I sure as heck don't want somebody who is dumber than I am!