New computer time...

[Judy G. Russell]

... I may end up getting a new computer sooner than I thought (this six-year-old box is starting to have serious problems). So...

1. Core 2 duo or quad?

2. MB suggestions?

3. DDR2 or DDR3?

4. CD/DVD writer suggestions?

5. Should I consider a 64 bit OS?

I have fairly serious Photoshop requirements but other than that, my uses are pretty mundane.

[earler]

1. core 2 duo is fine.
2. I like asus motherboards.
3. DDR2 is sufficient and cheaper than DDR3.
4. Just about any dvd burner. These are commodities today.
5. As 64bit, well 16 bit software won't run. I'd wait before moving to 64bit. Remember that you can always do this on one of today's modern systems.
6. You will need 2 gig of ram. If you install 4 only 3 will be seen by 32bit systems.

[fhaber]

Basically, d'accord on Earle's suggestions. MSI and Gigabit are also top-tier now, if the builder prefers them.

If you're Vista-ing, I do notice a difference Quad over Core2. This is a sad commentary. Otherwise, clock will buy you more than cores. This may change (CS4 PS, for instance, esp. filters.). 2.5GHz of quad costs the same as 3.x of Core2. You guess.

Spec "silence; big, slow-turning fans, an extra $30 for the heatsink/fan." Make sure all the temp monitoring, speed-stepping, and fan control works before accepting delivery and anteing up fully.

Buy a dustbuster, clean all filters (if any) frequently, and blow out the dust bunnies semiannually, at least. This matters more now. Clean your window AC more frequently, too. These new machines can draw 350W or more without blinking. OTOH, they sleep better, and draw *less* at idle.

Do buy a decent graphic card ($100 and up). I know you don't shoot aliens, but processing *on the graphics card* will be very viable in a year or so. And when, kicking and screaming, you're forced into Vista, you'll want to try Aero for at least five minutes before re-donning your hair shirt and going Classic.

2G RAM with two slots open is prudent now, as is 32-bit. In five years, we'll all be virtualizing and running multiple opsyses on the same machine. For this, bring RAM. Ask the builder whether the MB is stable with 8G in four slots, because you *will* be using that much before the new machine itself goes obsolescent.

Fine Points: Unless you're keeping the old machine as a hot spare, buy one USB floppy drive for the household. I need mine weekly. Survey also your need for replacements for old SCSI and serial-port gear.

[Judy G. Russell]

You will need 2 gig of ram. If you install 4 only 3 will be seen by 32bit systems.And Photoshop can use every bit of the 3... Thanks.

[Judy G. Russell]

the builder ...I still do business with Precision. They'll do anything I spec out, but they usually use Intel MBs.

Spec "silence; big, slow-turning fans, an extra $30 for the heatsink/fan." Make sure all the temp monitoring, speed-stepping, and fan control works before accepting delivery and anteing up fully.Gotcha.

2G RAM with two slots open is prudent now, as is 32-bit. ... Ask the builder whether the MB is stable with 8G in four slots, because you *will* be using that much before the new machine itself goes obsolescent.I can use as much NOW as I can get the OS to recognize.

Fine Points: Unless you're keeping the old machine as a hot spare, buy one USB floppy drive for the household. I need mine weekly. Survey also your need for replacements for old SCSI and serial-port gear.I think I'm out of SCSI and serial-port stuff (I am also out of USB ports and will be very happy to have a lot more!), and haven't even touched a floppy in nearly two years.

What about monitors? I'm still running an old LG 995E and really need to upgrade.

[Dan in Saint Louis]

5. Should I consider a 64 bit OS?Beware of unavailable hardware drivers.

[Judy G. Russell]

Beware of unavailable hardware drivers.Is that a yes or a no?

[Mike]

1. Core 2 duo or quad?
My new box is a 2.4GHz Core 2 duo, and I've never managed to get the combined processor utilization over 50%.

[earler]

I'd go for a 24" monitor today. Prices have dropped considerably. However, a 22" one is also good.

If you have the machine built, find a case that has the 2nd set of usb ports on the top front. More convenient than at the bottom front, though if you get the latter be sure and get a couple of flexusb adapters, say from cablestogo.com. The typical usb ports side by side are such that you can't connect 2 thumb drives at the same time unless you have the flexusb adapters. Further, they fold upwards; this prevents something to stumble over.

Today you can get a quite decent and powerful machine for about $1200 or so. This includes a good video card, not one for games, the memory and a couple of 500 gig drives.

Do get a at least a 500 va power supply from a good supplier, like antec.

[Judy G. Russell]

be sure and get a couple of flexusb adapters, say from cablestogo.comOh now those are handy doodads. Gotta order them now no matter what I do with the rest of this stuff.

[Judy G. Russell]

My new box is a 2.4GHz Core 2 duo, and I've never managed to get the combined processor utilization over 50%.I'd be willing to bet I could bring it to its knees with just a couple of major Photoshop (or PS-related) operations. Try taking three 200Mb TIFF images and combining them into an HDR...

[ktinkel]

I'd be willing to bet I could bring it to its knees with just a couple of major Photoshop (or PS-related) operations. Try taking three 200Mb TIFF images and combining them into an HDR...I suppose there are some differences in the way Macs and PCs use RAM, but serious Photoshop users on Macs want quad.

Besides that, Adobe upgrades always seem to challenge the hardware, so you may a well try to bank a bit of capacity for the next upgrade (or the one after).

Or just not update, of course.

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Is that a yes or a no?That is "many hardware items that run well on 32-bit versions of Windows may not yet have 64-bit drivers." Check the manufacturer's Web site for 64-bit drivers for your favorite printer, scanner, mouse-or-pointing-device, etc.

Some may have drivers built into 64-bit Windows, but those may not include all the features.

[ktinkel]

What about monitors? If you are assembling photos you almost can’t have too wide a monitor. Or two, side by side, which seems to be increasingly common.

(There is a great snapshot of Al Gore at his computer, with three 24- or 30-inch LCDs arranged in triptych formation in front of him; you could aspire to that!)

I have 24-inch monitors; next time I will go for a 30-inch. Not only do some tasks require a lot of space, and many programs scatter palettes and menus all over the place, but even for more mundane tasks — working on web sites, for example — I often need to have two or three “pages” in front of me (two browsers, for example). The 24-inch monitor fills up fast in those contexts.

The other thing to think about is pixel size. PCs today often use really fine screens, which is great for images. But you should check to see how much you need to fuss to get readable type.

Here is one recent recommendation from someone on the DTP Forum that might be of some use:

I helped a client set up a 24" imac and got monitor envy. Ordered a Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP. I chose this one after reading a review of four or five 24" displays. This one came out on top for color gamut and accuracy, at least in the sub-$1000 range. So far, so good. Two DVI inputs, one VGA, S-video and HDMI. Built in media card reader and four USB ports. Good stand, including rotation.

I was using a 19" Viewsonic CRT at 1600x1200 and was having trouble reading smaller text. Now it is all crisp.
And there is a long year-old thread about monitors (http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4471&highlight=display) there as well. The original poster ended up choosing a 24-inch monitor.

[fhaber]

My new box is a 2.4GHz Core 2 duo, and I've never managed to get the combined processor utilization over 50%.

Just run Prime 95 on the CPU, and the new beta client of Folding@Home on the GPU. Presto, room heater.

(Specious advice to you, sorry. It's really for Judy, the better to really abuse^H^H stress out the new box for its first 48 hours.)

[fhaber]

...serious Photoshop users on Macs want quad.

And it would be sloppy not to mention that Apple makes a damn fine and fairly priced workstation in the Mac Pro series.

(Yes, Judy needs another PS license somewhat less than some other things, like food.)

[Judy G. Russell]

Adobe upgrades always seem to challenge the hardware, so you may a well try to bank a bit of capacity for the next upgrade (or the one after).I'm already on the cusp of upgrading: I'm still running CS (and am thinking of at least CS3).

[Judy G. Russell]

That is "many hardware items that run well on 32-bit versions of Windows may not yet have 64-bit drivers." Check the manufacturer's Web site for 64-bit drivers for your favorite printer, scanner, mouse-or-pointing-device, etc. Some may have drivers built into 64-bit Windows, but those may not include all the features.Aha! Well, mouse and keyboard need to be replaced, scanner and printer are new but I should check that. Thanks.

[Judy G. Russell]

PCs today often use really fine screens, which is great for images. But you should check to see how much you need to fuss to get readable type. Good point. I have a wide screen monitor at work and have to keep switching to bigger font to read text (versus working on images).

Here is one recent recommendation from someone on the DTP Forum that might be of some use... And there is a long year-old thread about monitors (http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4471&highlight=display) there as well. The original poster ended up choosing a 24-inch monitor.Great, thanks very much! (I really should pop in over there more often but I'm still working on photos and videos from Africa... Time is something I can't get enough of!)

[Judy G. Russell]

the better to really abuse^H^H stress out the new box for its first 48 hours.I let Precision do that. They do a 48-hour burn-in procedure (or at least they did the last time I had them build a box for me).

[Judy G. Russell]

And it would be sloppy not to mention that Apple makes a damn fine and fairly priced workstation in the Mac Pro series. (Yes, Judy needs another PS license somewhat less than some other things, like food.)The Photoshop license would be only part of what it would cost to switch over from the stuff I've learned to use, to things that run on the Mac... I have simply too many things that are Windows-only to make the switch. (I ain't learning another genealogy program and I really don't want to dual boot...)

[poakes]

The Photoshop license would be only part of what it would cost to switch over from the stuff I've learned to use, to things that run on the Mac... I have simply too many things that are Windows-only to make the switch. (I ain't learning another genealogy program and I really don't want to dual boot...)

I seem to recall you've got a OEM copy of XP sitting around somewhere. That plus VMWare's Fusion gives you both worlds.

I've been running that combo on my MacBook Pro for some time and have been quite happy with it.

-poakes

[Judy G. Russell]

I seem to recall you've got a OEM copy of XP sitting around somewhere. That plus VMWare's Fusion gives you both worlds. I've been running that combo on my MacBook Pro for some time and have been quite happy with it.I'll look at it, but am not much on Mac stuff.

[Mike]

Try taking three 200Mb TIFF images and combining them into an HDR...
I'll see you and raise you with

Building thumbnails for an entire directory/subdirectory hierarchy, while
Playing MP3s through Quintessential Player, while
Having 10 open tabs in Firefox, some of which are running Flash animations, while
Saving one of those web pages to PDF with Acrobat Pro, while
Editing an image in PaintShop Pro, with a bucket full of "undo" steps.When I would enter codes at mycoderewards.com with my old computer, it practically would die because of the amount of Flash on that page (if ever there was an example of "don't do this on a web page," mycokerewards.com is it!). The new computer doesn't even hesitate!

I find the amount of memory to be more significant in getting tasks completed than the processor speed!

[Mike]

They do a 48-hour burn-in procedure (or at least they did the last time I had them build a box for me).
One piece of advice the sysadmin at my former job gave me: when you get the computer home, before plugging it in, open it up and make sure all the chips and boards are completely seated in their sockets. Sometimes they vibrate loose during transit (even just a few miles in the back of the car).

He says that in his experience, loose chips/boards was the major cause of inconsistent operation.

[ktinkel]

Good point. I have a wide screen monitor at work and have to keep switching to bigger font to read text (versus working on images).

Great, thanks very much! (I really should pop in over there more often but I'm still working on photos and videos from Africa... Time is something I can't get enough of!)I know — oh, boy, do I know!

:)

[ktinkel]

And it would be sloppy not to mention that Apple makes a damn fine and fairly priced workstation in the Mac Pro series.

(Yes, Judy needs another PS license somewhat less than some other things, like food.)Yeah, but I don’t figure Judy for a Mac somehow.

But some of the lessons are transferable!

[ktinkel]

I'm already on the cusp of upgrading: I'm still running CS (and am thinking of at least CS3).CS3 is current; we are less than a year from CS4. Alas, maybe.

But they always make it (just) worthwhile to upgrade.

[Judy G. Russell]

I find the amount of memory to be more significant in getting tasks completed than the processor speed!That, I've heard from everyone. Which is why I want a motherboard with capacity for 8Gb and, initially at least, 4Gb populated.

[Judy G. Russell]

One piece of advice the sysadmin at my former job gave me: when you get the computer home, before plugging it in, open it up and make sure all the chips and boards are completely seated in their sockets. Sometimes they vibrate loose during transit (even just a few miles in the back of the car). He says that in his experience, loose chips/boards was the major cause of inconsistent operation.Interesting! I've never had that happen, but there's always a first time, so I'll check for sure. Thanks.

[Judy G. Russell]

CS3 is current; we are less than a year from CS4. Alas, maybe. But they always make it (just) worthwhile to upgrade.I'll wait until the new one comes out. Thanks.

[Mike]

Which is why I want a motherboard with capacity for 8Gb and, initially at least, 4Gb populated.
That's a good start!

[Mike]

I've never had that happen, but there's always a first time, so I'll check for sure.
You're welcome. It never has happened to me with a new computer, but I've had loose chips later down the line, and it's easier to open the computer and check everything before all the cables are attached!

[Judy G. Russell]

That's a good start!Now all I have to do is get it all specced out, ordered... and (ulp...) paid for.

[Judy G. Russell]

I don’t figure Judy for a Mac somehow.YEEEEEK! I just priced the Mac Pro! YEEEEEK! No, I'm staying with a plain vanilla non-Mac box, thanks anyway.

[ktinkel]

YEEEEEK! I just priced the Mac Pro! YEEEEEK! No, I'm staying with a plain vanilla non-Mac box, thanks anyway.Isn’t it outrageous? I have in the past always bought the tower, in the middle of the range, but Apple has basically done away with that.

Last fall I bought an iMac. And because I hated the screen quality of the new model (shiny, set up for gamers), I actually bought the last box from the old version, with a nice matte screen.

Many designers and photographers have been scratching their heads about the Apple line. Normally most of use would have bought the pro, but not at those prices. Everything is an option, and expensive.

Anyway, I never figured you should/would go for a Mac. Too much work.

[Judy G. Russell]

Normally most of use would have bought the pro, but not at those prices. Everything is an option, and expensive. Anyway, I never figured you should/would go for a Mac. Too much work.I'd have at least looked at one but not at those prices. Yeeeeek!

[Mike]

Now all I have to do is get it all specced out, ordered... and (ulp...) paid for.
In the end, you'll be glad you have it!

[fhaber]

I'd have at least looked at one but not at those prices. Yeeeeek!

Hey, two Xeons don't come cheap. If you did 3D or rendering, you'd look at $3k as entry. Dell and HP are close to these prices, unless you're corporate-bulk.

(You can get refurbs for $2k, occasionally.)

[Judy G. Russell]

If you did 3D or rendering, you'd look at $3k as entry...Fortunately, I don't do either of those, so I can keep my costs WAY down from that!

[MollyM/CA]

Here are the specs for what my son and I worked out for me.

Infinity 8800 Pro (NO MONITOR)
www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Infinity_8800_Pro/

CAS: CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Tower 420W Case W/ Side-panel Window
CS_FAN: Extra Case Cooling Fan [+3] (3 x Fans [+6])
CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz 1066FSB 8MB L2
Cache 64-bit [+86]
CD: Sony Q170A 18x Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
CD2: Sony Q170A 18x Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
CABLE: Round Cable Upgrade for Hard Drive, Optical Drive & Floppy Drive
FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
FAN: CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling System (Superior Cooling Performance
+ Extreme Silent at 20dBA)
FLOPPY: 1.44 MB FLOPPY DRIVE [+10] (BLACK COLOR)
HDD: Single Hard Drive (1TB (500GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM
HDD [+134])
HDD2: 1TB (500GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive [+269]
IEEE_CARD: IEEE 1394 CARD AND DRIVER [+19]
MODEM: Creative Labs PCI 56K v.92 FAX Modem [+16]
MOTHERBOARD: (Quad-Core FSB1333) EVGA nForce 680i SLI Chipset LGA775
FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard [+47]
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)4GB (4x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel
Memory [+200] (Mushkin Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD [-83]
PRO_WIRING: Professional Wiring for All WIRINGs Inside The System Chasis
with High Performance Thermal Compound on CPU
POWERSUPPLY: 750 Watts Power Supplies [+110] (($30 off Mail-in Rebate)
**Recommended** Thermaltake ToughPower 750W - Quad SLI Ready)
SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD

TEMP: SILVERSTONE EUDEMON SST-FP52 LCD DISPLAY FRONT PANEL
USB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered
by NVIDIA)
WNC: Netgear WG311T Super G 108Mbps PCI Adapter [+40]

I also have a 750 gig Seagate Free Agent external HD, something like $200 on sale at Costco once upon a time -- holds all my CD backups and other WAV/MP3 books and personal recordings.

Here are some things I especially like about the computer.

Water-cooled and major heavy-duty fans and fins: I used to have to turn the computer off mid-day from June through September, many days. This one has a temperature indicator, and it's never gone above 30(C).

Speed and memory: loading hundreds of megabytes into Photoshop, Illustrator, Audition (audio editor) takes moments instead of minutes, and rendering is fast too. It's probably an OS issue rather than hardware, but on both older (slower and XP) computers, it seemed that Adobe wouldn't let go of memory or cache space, or something, as rendering and changing the view (as in backing up in Photoshop) got slower and slower and slower with each photo/whatever, and I would finally have to close everything down and reboot or go mad. That's with moderate sized files one at a time. Now I can hardly make one move in a solitaire game.

Round cables -- make it much easier to see what's what inside.
Swing-out sides on tower.
Card readers part of tower -- saves a USB port and will take anyone's cards, not just my CFs. They read fast, too.

USB/Firewire ports on top and top front (except we forgot to get a card for the front ones -- something to check. They're part of tower but card isn't part of preconfigured system--). (Better get Firewire capability, at least one port, you may want something that's only Firewire or have something that will work better with it.)

The HDD's are hooked up two and two (RAID arrays) of almost a terabyte each, and when I figure out what I need to edit my AVCHD videos I'll need it. There's never any problem with running out of cache with stills and audio!

I got a NEC Multisync 2490 (24") monitor and it's as wide as I care to look at, given that the room is such that I can't get very far away from it. I think I'd go with another rather than a wider monitor, though, if I run out of see-room. It seemed to have the best color specs for the price, and without doing much most photos look like what I thought I saw.

Things I don't like: Sony CD/DVD drives failed, partly, after a few weeks -- probably from the tiny plastic belts overheating from backing up CDs one after another for way too long. They've more or less recovered. They will read and write double-sided DVDs so I can back up my irreplaceable DVDs. The new video camera insists on Blue-ray for writing direct from the camera, so I'll probably try to hang on until those come down. (Another thing you might consider; I didn't think I needed a new video camera either or ever, but as it turned out...)

********************

Part of the present was the Adobe Premiere Production Suite, the video parts of which I haven't the faintest idea of how to use (partly because I only have one video in a format it will read), and which includes a truly mickey-mouse sound editor rather than Audition.

But the Bridge program that began being bundled at some point --CS3? -- with Photoshop and Illustrator (probably all the editing programs) is worth its weight in gold, especially if you also have Thumbs Plus for file handling/viewing/not-so-power editing. It displays all the photos (or other media) as thumbnails, and you can select a group and open them in Camera Raw view, which lets you make adjustments as if the camera had done them before you shot, and has an onboard crop frame and straightener, among other amenities. You can get through a dozen or hundreds of photos in about a tenth of the time and with less eyestrain.

Adobe note-- it's always "updating" its software, and you have to find the place where you can make it tell you it's going download a couple hundred megabytes of updates.

[Judy G. Russell]

Here are the specs for what my son and I worked out for me.Great info, Molly! Thanks!