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sidney
April 17th, 2008, 02:12 AM
I just came across this blog entry with pictures of the world's worst intersections and traffic jams (http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/03/worlds-worst-intersections-traffic-jams.html).

I'm particulary amazed by the frightening simplicity of the "Magic Roundabout" in England, which is pictured about a quarter way down the page after some very high tech and complex highway interchanges.

The traffic jams are stuck down near the bottom of the page, which I guess makes sense.

Peter Creasey
April 17th, 2008, 09:00 AM
blog entry with pictures of the world's worst intersections and traffic jams

Sidney, Fascinating! And also most unsettling!

earler
April 17th, 2008, 10:57 AM
Roundabouts, invented in mexico (where they are called glorietas) or in england, they are now being implemented a great deal in france because they do avoid accidents at intersections where people don't yield the right of way or go through red lights. The roundabouts slow traffic, yes, but they work because accidents are fewer.

Judy G. Russell
April 17th, 2008, 11:41 PM
...they work because accidents are fewer.That most assuredly has NOT been the experience here in the US, where major and expensive traffic reconstruction projects have been slowly but steadily eliminating the #@$#%@$ things.

Mike
April 18th, 2008, 02:24 AM
I just came across this blog entry with pictures of the world's worst intersections and traffic jams (http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/03/worlds-worst-intersections-traffic-jams.html).
Interesting page, Sidney. Thanks!

The first item on that page reminded me of the MacArthur Maze in Oakland (coordinates 37.8271, -122.2911). I found it on Google Earth (version 4.3 just released, woo!). Clicking one of the links led me to a Wikipedia page on the Maze!

An interesting bit of trivia: the freeway heading north from the Maze, roughly parallel to the San Francisco Bay, is called the East Shore Freeway. Officially, it is Interstate 580 West and Interstate 80 East.

Isn't geography wonderful?

earler
April 18th, 2008, 06:04 AM
Well, the french statistics confirm that roundabouts do reduce accidents. People do run lights and don't pay attention to priority at intersections. Even at the anecdotal level, I can say this. My wife is an assistant mayor in our village. The number of accidents after the installation of a roundabout has declined. I'm not that surprised that the usa doesn't recognize this because it doesn't enfornce wearing of protective headgear for motorcyclists. In many states passing on the right is tolerated, even permitted!

Judy G. Russell
April 18th, 2008, 04:12 PM
An interesting bit of trivia: the freeway heading north from the Maze, roughly parallel to the San Francisco Bay, is called the East Shore Freeway. Officially, it is Interstate 580 West and Interstate 80 East.My head hurts...

Judy G. Russell
April 18th, 2008, 04:14 PM
The number of accidents after the installation of a roundabout has declined.Most people pay more attention to traffic patterns that are new. Give those roundabouts a decade or two and see what happens then...

earler
April 18th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Many accidents occur when people go through an intersection without paying attention if another car is arriving from the right or the left. Worse, there are those who go through red lights. The roundabouts have been used for a while here, and have proven their value. So more are being installed.

Judy G. Russell
April 18th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Many accidents occur when people go through an intersection without paying attention if another car is arriving from the right or the left. Worse, there are those who go through red lights. The roundabouts have been used for a while here, and have proven their value. So more are being installed.I wish you the joy of them. Me, I'm delighted to have them GONE.

Dan in Saint Louis
April 18th, 2008, 08:16 PM
My head hurts...
I have an old email sig file I used when sending mail from Florissant Valley Community College:

~~~~~~~~~~
From Florissant Valley Community College, which is neither in Florissant nor in a valley. It is, however, near West Florissant Road (which is east of Florissant, both Road and city) and Florissant Road North (which is south of New Florissant Road South). Actually, it is in Ferguson.

That's in the County. In the City of St. Louis, West Florissant is north of North Florissant. Don't confuse either one with Florissant (in Valley Park) or the Florissant which runs past UMSL, because both of those are west of West Florissant AND south of Florissant Road South. Got it?
~~~~~~~~~~

Judy G. Russell
April 18th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Got it?I'm sure I got it. Is there a cure????

Mike
April 19th, 2008, 03:23 AM
My head hurts...
Try giving directions to someone not familiar with the area!

earler
April 19th, 2008, 05:30 AM
I suppose you'd be happy to see the elimination of speed limits both in town and in the countryside, as well as the removal of all traffic lights. Then you could drive as fast as you wish and won't have to stop at red lights.

Judy G. Russell
April 19th, 2008, 01:48 PM
I suppose you'd be happy to see the elimination of speed limits both in town and in the countryside, as well as the removal of all traffic lights. Then you could drive as fast as you wish and won't have to stop at red lights.Errr... huh?

Judy G. Russell
April 19th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Try giving directions to someone not familiar with the area!It doesn't sound like even a map would help! Directions would have to be by physical references ("fourth traffic light")!

Mike
April 20th, 2008, 03:23 AM
Directions would have to be by physical references ("fourth traffic light")!
Indeed. Often we tell people "get into the second lane from the left while on the bridge, and stay in that lane until you see the sign for Xxxxxxxx."

And we pray the lanes don't get rearranged!

Judy G. Russell
April 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM
And we pray the lanes don't get rearranged!Somebody'd have to rewrite the song about Charlie and the MTA ("Did he ever return, no he never returned...").

Mike
April 21st, 2008, 02:21 AM
Somebody'd have to rewrite the song about Charlie and the MTA ("Did he ever return, no he never returned...").
Actually, I think it would be very easy for someone who doesn't know the area to get trapped on the freeway ramps and starve to death!

Judy G. Russell
April 21st, 2008, 06:08 PM
Actually, I think it would be very easy for someone who doesn't know the area to get trapped on the freeway ramps and starve to death!Remind me to pack emergency supplies if I ever drive out there again!

Lindsey
April 21st, 2008, 10:39 PM
Actually, I think it would be very easy for someone who doesn't know the area to get trapped on the freeway ramps and starve to death!
That was my fear when I had to drive from Kennedy Airport into New Jersey a few years ago. And I think I might still be trying to find my way off of Long Island if I hadn't had one of those GPS thingies in the rental car with me.

--Lindsey

Mike
April 22nd, 2008, 02:32 AM
Remind me to pack emergency supplies if I ever drive out there again!
We keep getting reminded to have three days' worth of supplies on hand at all times.

That's primarily in case of earthquake, but it might be a good rule of thumb for motoring, too.

Mike
April 22nd, 2008, 02:34 AM
And I think I might still be trying to find my way off of Long Island if I hadn't had one of those GPS thingies in the rental car with me.
Oh, you would have starved by now.

Lindsey
April 22nd, 2008, 11:45 PM
I just came across this blog entry with pictures of the world's worst intersections and traffic jams (http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/03/worlds-worst-intersections-traffic-jams.html).
The traffic circle around the Arc de Triumph in Paris has to be seen to be believed. Notice that there are no lanes marked off in that circle. The guy is right, it's a free-for-all (especially during the morning rush hour!), and I'm not sure even that term adequately describes it. But I suppose that in a sense, it is very French. :p

Not that lines are always all that helpful. The "magic mushroom circle" in England looks like something that only the people who invented the game of cricket could have designed -- or understood!

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 22nd, 2008, 11:51 PM
Oh, you would have starved by now.
I remember going past Shea Stadium; I suppose I could have popped in for a hot dog!

--Lindsey

Mike
April 23rd, 2008, 01:46 AM
I remember going past Shea Stadium; I suppose I could have popped in for a hot dog!
That might get you to the next gas stop!

earler
April 23rd, 2008, 09:23 AM
L'arc de triomphe is a bit messy, but since those already there have the priority over vehicles entering, there is some sense to it all, and almost never an accident there. It's just a larger round about, with 8 different avenues to choose from.

Lindsey
April 23rd, 2008, 11:07 PM
L'arc de triomphe is a bit messy, but since those already there have the priority over vehicles entering, there is some sense to it all, and almost never an accident there. It's just a larger round about, with 8 different avenues to choose from.
"A bit messy" is the supreme understatement! But somehow they do manage to avoid turning it into a demolition derby, in spite of motorbikes zipping back and forth.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 24th, 2008, 10:41 PM
I'll stick my neck out and add a joke from the "Rhymes With Orange (http://www.rhymeswithorange.com/)" comic strip of 4/23 (not yet available online), since it ties in with both the thread subject and the season.

The title in the first panel is IF IT WERE TODAY (21st century Haggadah).

Moses would come up to the eight-lane highway, raise his staff,

part the sea of cars and allow the Jews to cross to safety...

...Then every year after we'd celebrate "Overpass." (L'chaim!)

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 25th, 2008, 04:29 PM
We keep getting reminded to have three days' worth of supplies on hand at all times. That's primarily in case of earthquake, but it might be a good rule of thumb for motoring, too.Particularly with some of the roads and, worse, the #$%#$ signs!

Judy G. Russell
April 25th, 2008, 04:40 PM
The traffic circle around the Arc de Triumph in Paris has to be seen to be believed. I just closed my eyes and hoped the taxi driver wouldn't get us killed...

ndebord
April 25th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Particularly with some of the roads and, worse, the #$%#$ signs!

Judy,

You expect signs in Joisey?

;-)

Mike
April 26th, 2008, 01:38 AM
Particularly with some of the roads and, worse, the #$%#$ signs!
Heading south from Oakland on I-880, as one is nearing Hayward, there is a sign that indicates:

+-----------+
| A STREET |
|DOWNTOWN|
| ONE MILE |
+-----------+

While it's trying to convey the exit is for A Street and the rest of downtown, each time I see it, I interpret it as "any random street downtown." I've learned I'm not the only one!

Judy G. Russell
April 26th, 2008, 10:51 PM
You expect signs in Joisey?Joisey is still better than Massachusetts, where the first sign telling you what this exit is for is usually posted at a place where you see it just as you are passing this exit...

Judy G. Russell
April 26th, 2008, 10:52 PM
While it's trying to convey the exit is for A Street and the rest of downtown, each time I see it, I interpret it as "any random street downtown." I've learned I'm not the only one!I'd probably be sitting there asking myself WHICH street downtown???

sidney
April 27th, 2008, 12:15 AM
Joisey is still better than Massachusetts, where the first sign telling you what this exit is for is usually posted at a place where you see it just as you are passing this exit...

That's still better than the signs in Massachusetts that you do see in time, which will say, for example "Rt 2A Boston" so you think that is the way to turn if you are heading to Boston, but which really means "This road is named Rt 2A and this way is the direction on this road that eventually ends up in Boston about three hours later than if you stay on the correct route that you are now on".

Mike
April 27th, 2008, 02:46 AM
I'd probably be sitting there asking myself WHICH street downtown???
Bingo!

earler
April 27th, 2008, 06:39 AM
I remember those huge signs along the roads in piteous condition in massachusetts that said, "pardon the inconvenience while massachusetts builds a great new highway system, paul dever governor". Then you saw a bunch of teenagers and young men sitting around construction sites drinking beer. Those 'workers', almost all sons, brothers-in-law, etc. of the kennedys and other notable families of the state who were 'employed' to build the roads. This was in the early 1950s, by the way.

ndebord
April 27th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Joisey is still better than Massachusetts, where the first sign telling you what this exit is for is usually posted at a place where you see it just as you are passing this exit...

Judy,

Agreed. Neither state wins awards for intelligence in signage.

I will go for one of those phones with approx. gps in them, the next time my contract is up.

Judy G. Russell
April 27th, 2008, 01:58 PM
I will go for one of those phones with approx. gps in them, the next time my contract is up.I occasionally think I should have gotten the nav (GPS) feature when I bought the Acura. Then I remember the nav system that guided some poor idjit right into a river...

Judy G. Russell
April 27th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Those 'workers', almost all sons, brothers-in-law, etc. of the kennedys and other notable families of the state who were 'employed' to build the roads.Your prejudices are showing again... Even then, the notable families did not send their sons (or even in-laws) out to pose as construction workers.

Mike
April 28th, 2008, 01:48 AM
...the nav system that guided some poor idjit right into a river...
Because the idjit ignored the signs that said, "Wait for ferry"!

earler
April 28th, 2008, 04:21 PM
No, the kennedy progeny didn't spend time at construction sites. They didn't have to. There was always the kennedy compound on the cape. But, there were plenty of lesser political families who "found" work for their progeny on such sites.

In any case, what I saw was what I saw. It did help create what you call prejudices. I'd call it understanding.

Judy G. Russell
April 28th, 2008, 06:03 PM
No, the kennedy progeny didn't spend time at construction sites.Thank you for admitting that you were totally wrong when you originally said that it was the sons and in-laws of the Kennedys who were these "construction workers."

Judy G. Russell
April 28th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Because the idjit ignored the signs that said, "Wait for ferry"!Well, there is that possibility as well!

earler
April 28th, 2008, 06:58 PM
No, I did say brothers-in-law, sons-in-law, etc. Note the etc. In other words, though old joe's sons didn't do duty there, there were relatives and relatives of relatives. That is the way masschusetts politics ran for years. The kennedys were only one of the many families involved in the endemic corruption of that state. Of course, it has continued. You do remember the demise of mary jo when teddy's car hit the water, don't you? No legal action was taken against teddy. It was buried, as deeply as that car.

Judy G. Russell
April 29th, 2008, 07:51 PM
No, I did say brothers-in-law, sons-in-law, etc.Who don't you go back and read what you actually wrote and then we can end this fruitless discussion.

Lindsey
April 30th, 2008, 12:39 AM
I just closed my eyes and hoped the taxi driver wouldn't get us killed...
Just like in NYC!

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 30th, 2008, 12:42 AM
I occasionally think I should have gotten the nav (GPS) feature when I bought the Acura. Then I remember the nav system that guided some poor idjit right into a river...
Well -- only because the idjit didn't realize that when you got to a ferry crossing, you had to wait for the ferry.

--Lindsey

(Ooops, I should have read the next page of messages -- I see Mike knew that story, too!)

Judy G. Russell
May 1st, 2008, 10:01 AM
Just like in NYC!NYC cabbies are by far the most... uh... energetic I've ever seen. In New Delhi, the issue was all the other traffic as well as the fact that everyone seemed to be playing a colossal game of chicken. In NYC, it's the cabbies themselves.

Judy G. Russell
May 1st, 2008, 10:03 AM
Well -- only because the idjit didn't realize that when you got to a ferry crossing, you had to wait for the ferry.But the GPS didn't tell him so, y'know... (what... I should have to know something myself??? like not sticking my fingers into an operating lawn mower???)

MollyM/CA
May 1st, 2008, 08:17 PM
That most assuredly has NOT been the experience here in the US, where major and expensive traffic reconstruction projects have been slowly but steadily eliminating the #@$#%@$ things.

No they haven't, they've sent them all to Ripon. We now, in a still-small town which once had few traffic problems, have a roundabout with 4 stop signs replacing a 4-way stop, and another normal (! no stop signs) which has replaced a 4-way stop at the corner of an elementary school, eliminating the crosswalks and leaving the kids with a very very long block to walk before coming to one. We can't wait until the high school kids find out how much fun it is to race one another around them. They've already raised the curbs on a couple after a few drivers took the short way across, and had a Kop Krash during a chase. Wonderful inventions.

ndebord
May 2nd, 2008, 04:25 PM
No, I did say brothers-in-law, sons-in-law, etc. Note the etc. In other words, though old joe's sons didn't do duty there, there were relatives and relatives of relatives. That is the way masschusetts politics ran for years. The kennedys were only one of the many families involved in the endemic corruption of that state. Of course, it has continued. You do remember the demise of mary jo when teddy's car hit the water, don't you? No legal action was taken against teddy. It was buried, as deeply as that car.

Earl,

Although I luv dishing as much as anyone, ancient history interests me less than the current skullduggery of the Republicans. I think of Arkansas and Karl Rove and this little piece on the latest iteration of the continuing saga of the Nixonian Dirty Tricks pranksters.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Breakins_plague_Justice_Department_whistleblowers_ 0430.html

Judy G. Russell
May 2nd, 2008, 04:44 PM
They've already raised the curbs on a couple after a few drivers took the short way across, and had a Kop Krash during a chase. Wonderful inventions.Yeah, well, hey... it's one way of figuring out who's swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool, I guess.

Jeff
May 3rd, 2008, 12:02 PM
Yeah, well, hey... it's one way of figuring out who's swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool, I guess.

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20051025/FRONTPAGE/51024003

“Since it’s a roundabout, there are not usually injuries,” said Rick Magnuson, an Aspen community safety officer.

Magnuson knows more than the average cop about roundabouts — 1,200 times more.

“Besides my job as a police officer, I’m also a performance artist,” Magnuson said. “I did a performance art piece in a Ryder truck with a gold fish in a bowl on the dashboard. I did 1,200 laps and got pulled over. I got in a little bit of trouble, but it was my day off.”

- Jeff

Judy G. Russell
May 3rd, 2008, 10:28 PM
“I did a performance art piece in a Ryder truck with a gold fish in a bowl on the dashboard. I did 1,200 laps and got pulled over. I got in a little bit of trouble, but it was my day off.”Some people have waaaaaaay too much time on their hands!

Jeff
May 4th, 2008, 11:30 AM
Some people have waaaaaaay too much time on their hands!

Yeah. His next performance art piece was to run for police chief of aspen. His 1,200 laps around the circle of hell was in Glenwood Springs some 40 miles north, which nevertheless somehow came up during the campaign.

- Jeff

Judy G. Russell
May 4th, 2008, 10:57 PM
His next performance art piece was to run for police chief of aspen.You elect your chiefs of police out there???

earler
May 5th, 2008, 06:06 AM
It's a curiosity of the usa that many sheriffs and police chiefs are elected. Same for judges, as you already know.

Jeff
May 5th, 2008, 02:02 PM
You elect your chiefs of police out there???

Yeah, in some of the more enlightened towns we do. It's called "community policing". Aspen cops also wear jeans and boots. The present dustup up valley has to do with what hybrid vehicle to buy for the cop's feet, as the Colorado crime lab has traced a large carbon footprint too close to home.

The gold fish lost the race.

- Jeff

Judy G. Russell
May 5th, 2008, 03:04 PM
It's called "community policing". Aspen cops also wear jeans and boots.I think I might have some concerns about calling for help to a police department whose chief I voted against in the last election...