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Judy G. Russell
September 29th, 2007, 08:17 AM
And this (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=506_1190449064) is what our government means by "supporting the troops"...?

Lindsey
October 1st, 2007, 06:31 PM
And this (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=506_1190449064) is what our government means by "supporting the troops"...?
Jesus. I wish I could say that I was shocked, but I don't think I can be shocked by anything that happens under the purview of this administration any more. They are completely shameless.

Oh, and by the way: Sy Hersh says get ready for an expansion into Iran (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh).

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 1st, 2007, 10:39 PM
Jesus. I wish I could say that I was shocked, but I don't think I can be shocked by anything that happens under the purview of this administration any more. They are completely shameless.It'll be interesting to see just what tomorrow's report into Blackwater says too...

Oh, and by the way: Sy Hersh says get ready for an expansion into Iran (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh).There's no doubt that that's what he wants -- whether he'll get it is another question altogether.

ndebord
October 2nd, 2007, 01:29 PM
Jesus. I wish I could say that I was shocked, but I don't think I can be shocked by anything that happens under the purview of this administration any more. They are completely shameless.

Oh, and by the way: Sy Hersh says get ready for an expansion into Iran (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh).

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

We've been in Iran since at least 2004 with our "no finding paper required" SOGs working out of the Pentagon.

Lindsey
October 3rd, 2007, 05:10 PM
It'll be interesting to see just what tomorrow's report into Blackwater says too...
I guess you saw this (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054718.php) regarding the State Department report that the Republicans wanted Waxman to delay his investigation for.

And just for giggles, the FBI investigation of the most recent Blackwater incident that is underway? Should the FBI investigators who will arrive in Baghdad next week wish to venture outside the Green Zone to investigate the crime scene, they will be escorted by, and be under the protection of . . . Blackwater.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
October 3rd, 2007, 05:11 PM
We've been in Iran since at least 2004 with our "no finding paper required" SOGs working out of the Pentagon.
You know, I guess that would not surprise me, either. <sigh>

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 3rd, 2007, 11:24 PM
I guess you saw this (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054718.php) regarding the State Department report that the Republicans wanted Waxman to delay his investigation for."We're outsourcing our investigations of Blackwater to Blackwater." Sigh... why am I not surprised...?

Mike
October 4th, 2007, 03:08 AM
And this (http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=266464), as well.

Judy G. Russell
October 4th, 2007, 08:57 AM
And this (http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=266464), as well.From the article (that National Guardsmen who served 22 months didn't get education benefits): "Here's what happened: Anderson's orders, and the orders of 1,161 other Minnesota guard members, were written for 729 days. Had they been written for 730 days -- one day more -- the soldiers would receive those benefits to pay for school."

That's outrageous.

ndebord
October 4th, 2007, 12:45 PM
From the article (that National Guardsmen who served 22 months didn't get education benefits): "Here's what happened: Anderson's orders, and the orders of 1,161 other Minnesota guard members, were written for 729 days. Had they been written for 730 days -- one day more -- the soldiers would receive those benefits to pay for school."

That's outrageous.

Judy,

A long history of the VA and Pentagon shaving benefits for soldiers. Think of the benefit march where Ike made his bones in D.C. doing his imitation of a Cossack or the 800,000 bad paper discharges given 'Nam Vets who were promised that if they left quietly, without demanding a court martial they could get a general discharge in 5 years (NOT).

War on the cheap (for the grunts) and billions and billions for outsourced paramilitary.

Lindsey
October 4th, 2007, 04:37 PM
And this (http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.aspx?storyid=266464), as well.
And yet we can throw money at Blackwater and Halliburton and not get upset when millions and even billions goes unaccounted for. Jesus H. Christ.

Both Hobot and Anderson believe the Pentagon deliberately wrote orders for 729 days instead of 730.

Oh, of course. I have no doubt whatsoever but that it was deliberate. Remember Cheney telling the armed forces in the course of the 2000 campaign, "Help is on the way!" Some help.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 4th, 2007, 04:47 PM
War on the cheap (for the grunts) and billions and billions for outsourced paramilitary.But hey... we support our troops, don't we... geez...

Mike
October 5th, 2007, 12:27 AM
That's outrageous.
And yet just about every Repug, when entering a discussion about ending the war, repeats the old, tired, "to end it now would be an insult to our service members."

Right.

Mike
October 5th, 2007, 12:29 AM
Oh, of course. I have no doubt whatsoever but that it was deliberate.
I have no doubt, either. After all, 729 is such a round number.

I didn't realize the service days had to be a number that's evenly divisible by 9.

Judy G. Russell
October 8th, 2007, 10:42 PM
And yet just about every Repug, when entering a discussion about ending the war, repeats the old, tired, "to end it now would be an insult to our service members." Right.The war was one of many issues at our family reunion this past weekend. The consensus, among the right-wingers and left-wingers in the family: just get us out of there.

Mike
October 9th, 2007, 12:48 AM
The consensus, among the right-wingers and left-wingers in the family: just get us out of there.
My mom (we all love her) would tell us that our family's consensus is to "support the troops," and she'd have all the justifications why this war is necessary.

Poor Brent had to learn the hard way that he should never enter any discussions about politics with her. She'll tell anyone what his/her opinion should be.

Still, we all love her. She'll need that strength in the coming days...

Judy G. Russell
October 9th, 2007, 08:57 AM
My mom (we all love her) would tell us that our family's consensus is to "support the troops," and she'd have all the justifications why this war is necessary. Poor Brent had to learn the hard way that he should never enter any discussions about politics with her. She'll tell anyone what his/her opinion should be.Oh my... yeah, I have a number of close relatives like that myself.

Still, we all love her. She'll need that strength in the coming days...Yes, she will. That plus more.

ndebord
October 9th, 2007, 12:30 PM
The war was one of many issues at our family reunion this past weekend. The consensus, among the right-wingers and left-wingers in the family: just get us out of there.

Judy,

On that note, my niece's husband (the Warthog mechanic, after almost four years now of visiting all the nice vacation spots of Iraq and South Central Asia) has managed to get home. His next assignment will be 18 months in South Korea! By which time I hope we are out of this sandstorm.

Do have one nephew who is still flying into Iraq on a C5 on a regular basis.

Lindsey
October 9th, 2007, 06:22 PM
The consensus, among the right-wingers and left-wingers in the family: just get us out of there.
That seems to be the consensus in some 70% of the country these days. If only Washington would listen!

We're not doing ourselves or anyone else any good by staying there.

I was doing a lot of reading on the American Revolution over the summer. At the beginning of the Revolution, opinion was very much divided among the populace, with about a third each being for independence, for remaining united with Britain, and not caring much one way or the other. New Jersey was one colony with a lot of loyalist sentiment at the start of the war, and Washington was greatly angered at how little support his army got from the populace as they were retreating through New Jersey in 1776. But within a few months, the occupying British troops had made themselves so thoroughly obnoxious by the high-handed contempt with which they treated the locals that public opinion turned completely around.

Massacres of civilians living on the frontier by British allies in the Iroquois Confederation while they were in the company of British forces didn't do much to win hearts and minds, either.

The way Iraqi civilians have been treated by Blackwater and, yes, some US servicemen, has to be at least as galling to Iraqis as British high-handedness was to us. Is it any wonder so many of them think it OK to target Americans?

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 9th, 2007, 07:17 PM
On that note, my niece's husband (the Warthog mechanic, after almost four years now of visiting all the nice vacation spots of Iraq and South Central Asia) has managed to get home. His next assignment will be 18 months in South Korea! By which time I hope we are out of this sandstorm.South Korea isn't exactly my idea of a plum assignment, but it beats the #$%@# out of Iraq.

Do have one nephew who is still flying into Iraq on a C5 on a regular basis.Yikes... I have one cousin still over there, and a terrific student who'll likely be headed back all too soon.

Judy G. Russell
October 9th, 2007, 07:18 PM
The way Iraqi civilians have been treated by Blackwater and, yes, some US servicemen, has to be at least as galling to Iraqis as British high-handedness was to us. Is it any wonder so many of them think it OK to target Americans?It's amazing how people expect the Iraqis to be grateful to an invader. No matter what their own leaders were like, once those leaders were gone, they want their country back.

Lindsey
October 11th, 2007, 12:37 AM
It's amazing how people expect the Iraqis to be grateful to an invader. No matter what their own leaders were like, once those leaders were gone, they want their country back.
Not to mention that, no matter how much I dislike George W. Bush and cannot wait to see him out of the White House, if, say, the Chinese decided to invade and force a "regime change," I sure would not be cheering for them to succeed!!!

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 11th, 2007, 08:46 AM
Not to mention that, no matter how much I dislike George W. Bush and cannot wait to see him out of the White House, if, say, the Chinese decided to invade and force a "regime change," I sure would not be cheering for them to succeed!!!Exactly. Absolutely. He's a problem, yes, but he's our problem and we'll handle him our way, thank you very much.

Mike
October 12th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Exactly. Absolutely. He's a problem, yes, but he's our problem and we'll handle him our way, thank you very much.
Though maybe we could send him some toys that were made in China.

ndebord
October 12th, 2007, 07:19 PM
It's amazing how people expect the Iraqis to be grateful to an invader. No matter what their own leaders were like, once those leaders were gone, they want their country back.

Judy,

'Tis a pity that the country they want back never really existed. Should make the Iraq/Iran conflict look like a tempest in a teapot.

Lindsey
October 12th, 2007, 10:32 PM
Though maybe we could send him some toys that were made in China.
LOL!!!! Yeah, that would be perfect justice!

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 12th, 2007, 10:51 PM
Though maybe we could send him some toys that were made in China.Given the way his brain works (or doesn't...), maybe he's already had a few!

Judy G. Russell
October 12th, 2007, 10:55 PM
'Tis a pity that the country they want back never really existed. Should make the Iraq/Iran conflict look like a tempest in a teapot.It already does.

Mike
October 13th, 2007, 02:40 AM
LOL!