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View Full Version : Have we really come to this?


Judy G. Russell
September 29th, 2007, 08:15 AM
From the Associated Press: KABUL, Afghanistan - A Taliban suicide bomber wearing an Afghan army uniform set off a huge explosion Saturday while trying to board a military bus in the capital, killing 30 people, most of them soldiers, officials said. Hours later, the Afghan president offered to meet personally with the Taliban leader for peace talks and give the militants a position in government.Think of it. The #$%@$# Taliban back in positions of authority and power in Afghanistan... and why? Because we spent all our time, energy, money and blood in a different country that was not involved in 9/11... It's enough to make you ill.

Lindsey
October 1st, 2007, 06:35 PM
Because we spent all our time, energy, money and blood in a different country that was not involved in 9/11... It's enough to make you ill.
And that was because the Boy King wanted to be a live action figure, and Afghanistan just didn't provide the proper visuals for that.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 1st, 2007, 10:38 PM
And that was because the Boy King wanted to be a live action figure, and Afghanistan just didn't provide the proper visuals for that.Bloody idiot... everything he says he wanted out of invading Iraq, we could have had by doing it right (instead of totally half-witted) in Afghanistan...

ndebord
October 2nd, 2007, 01:42 PM
Bloody idiot... everything he says he wanted out of invading Iraq, we could have had by doing it right (instead of totally half-witted) in Afghanistan...

Judy,

Maybe so, but Afghanistan has put paid to two modern empires already (Great Britain and the U.S.S.R.). It is not really a country at all and the Pushtans are close to being the majority in the country and a significant minority in Pakistan's NW territories.

Our original partners in the war against Bin Laden and the Taliban, the Northern Aliance, are and were composed of other ethnic groups, which separately are not large enough nor strong enough to govern. The Pushtans have been the rulers of Afghanistan historically (as have the Sunnis in Iraq).

Judy G. Russell
October 2nd, 2007, 07:53 PM
Maybe so, but Afghanistan has put paid to two modern empires already (Great Britain and the U.S.S.R.).Nonetheless, you know and I know that we could literally have vaporized Afghanistan after 9/11 and the whole world would have shrugged and said they had it coming. Our efforts there (other than vaporizing the whole country) would have had international support.

ndebord
October 3rd, 2007, 12:20 PM
Nonetheless, you know and I know that we could literally have vaporized Afghanistan after 9/11 and the whole world would have shrugged and said they had it coming. Our efforts there (other than vaporizing the whole country) would have had international support.

Judy,

If we were of the mind to truly do nation building, we would have struck a deal with the Pushtans (not the Taliban component) and made them an independent nation. We could have let them defacto take over the NW territorities and weakened Pakistan (and split Afghanistan into two parts). As you look at it all, when you say nuclear proliferation, you are talking about the Pakistan rogue scientist and his cabal of government supporters.

Judy G. Russell
October 3rd, 2007, 12:38 PM
If we were of the mind to truly do nation building, we would have struck a deal with the Pushtans (not the Taliban component) and made them an independent nation. We could have let them defacto take over the NW territorities and weakened Pakistan (and split Afghanistan into two parts). We're not of the mind to do nation building, unless it's the nation that exists only in the mind of GWB and his neocon minions. We love free and democratic elections, as long as the winner is the side we would have chosen; we love an independent Iraq, as long as it doesn't ally itself with Iran... sigh...

Lindsey
October 3rd, 2007, 04:50 PM
Bloody idiot... everything he says he wanted out of invading Iraq, we could have had by doing it right (instead of totally half-witted) in Afghanistan...
And paying more attention to Pakistan, a country which, as an Afghanistan expert at NYU points out, (a) has nuclear weapons; (b) has an unstable government; and (c) is the current headquarters of al-Qaeda. Lovely combination, eh?

Josh Marshall has a two-part video interview with this guy (Dr. Barnett Rubin) on his blog: Part I here (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054773.php), and Part II here (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/054875.php). Excellent discussion, if rather alarming.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
October 3rd, 2007, 04:56 PM
we love an independent Iraq, as long as it doesn't ally itself with Iran... sigh...
And whatever made the neocons think that a Shiia-dominated Iraq would not ally itself with Iran, which had for so long been pretty much the sole supporter of the Iraqi Shiias? (OK, granted, "thinking" may not have been part of the process....)

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 3rd, 2007, 11:25 PM
And paying more attention to Pakistan, a country which, as an Afghanistan expert at NYU points out, (a) has nuclear weapons; (b) has an unstable government; and (c) is the current headquarters of al-Qaeda.Yeah, but Musharraf is our friend, doncha know???

Judy G. Russell
October 3rd, 2007, 11:26 PM
(OK, granted, "thinking" may not have been part of the process....)BINGO!

ndebord
October 4th, 2007, 12:48 PM
We're not of the mind to do nation building, unless it's the nation that exists only in the mind of GWB and his neocon minions. We love free and democratic elections, as long as the winner is the side we would have chosen; we love an independent Iraq, as long as it doesn't ally itself with Iran... sigh...

Judy,

Rome didn't fall in a day, but emperiors like "Bush the Lesser" helped bring that day closer...

Lindsey
October 4th, 2007, 04:32 PM
Yeah, but Musharraf is our friend, doncha know???
Yeah, well -- so was Saddam at one point.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
October 4th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Rome didn't fall in a day, but emperiors like "Bush the Lesser" helped bring that day closer...Bring it??? He's PUSHING it!

Judy G. Russell
October 4th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Yeah, well -- so was Saddam at one point. Please. You're not trying to confuse us with the facts again, are you?

Lindsey
October 4th, 2007, 04:51 PM
Please. You're not trying to confuse us with the facts again, are you?
It's a bad habit that we of the Reality-Based Community have . . .

--Lindsey