[Dixonary] OT: Bad news at the OED

[Dodi Schultz]

This news, from Michael Quinion's weekly World Wide Words newsletter,
today's edition (those of you who don't subscribe to this FREE e-mailed
weekly that deals with the English language from Oxford to Ohio to Oz: get
thee to worldwidewords.org, where you can sign up):

Quinion notes that a quarterly update to the OED has just appeared online,
including some revisions and new entries. He reports:

>> The US "chaise lounge" (a folk-etymological change to the French
>> "chaise longue", meaning "long chair") appears for the first time.
>> OED new-words editor Katherine Connor Martin comments, "'Longue' is
>> an adjective modifying the noun. Postmodifying adjectives are now
>> rare in English, and 'longue' has been reinterpreted as the English
>> noun 'lounge', which not only resembles the French word, but also
>> has logical associations with a piece of furniture meant for
>> reclining." Purists may not be satisfied with this...

Grrrrrr.

--Dodi

[waynescottmd@earthlink.net]

Grrrr indeed! I was upset when I read that in the Quinion newletter, and
now I'm upset and angry all over again.

Wayne

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers


> [Original Message]
> From: Dodi Schultz <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>
> To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> Date: 9/22/2007 9:57:09 AM
> Subject: [Dixonary] OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
>
> This news, from Michael Quinion's weekly World Wide Words newsletter,
> today's edition (those of you who don't subscribe to this FREE e-mailed
> weekly that deals with the English language from Oxford to Ohio to Oz: get
> thee to worldwidewords.org, where you can sign up):
>
> Quinion notes that a quarterly update to the OED has just appeared online,
> including some revisions and new entries. He reports:
>
> >> The US "chaise lounge" (a folk-etymological change to the French
> >> "chaise longue", meaning "long chair") appears for the first time.
> >> OED new-words editor Katherine Connor Martin comments, "'Longue' is
> >> an adjective modifying the noun. Postmodifying adjectives are now
> >> rare in English, and 'longue' has been reinterpreted as the English
> >> noun 'lounge', which not only resembles the French word, but also
> >> has logical associations with a piece of furniture meant for
> >> reclining." Purists may not be satisfied with this...
>
> Grrrrrr.
>
> --Dodi

[jdh]

I thought it was beer joint to go to , to catch a date.

[Anders Sterner]

Wayne, my email to you keeps bouncing. Please add arsesq (AT) arsesq (DOT) com to
your safe senders list so you can get the Usual Suspects messages; or
tell me you want to opt out.

--arsesq

-----Original Message-----
From: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com [mailto:Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On
Behalf Of waynescottmd (AT) earthlink (DOT) net
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:07 PM
To: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED


Grrrr indeed! I was upset when I read that in the Quinion newletter, and
now I'm upset and angry all over again.

Wayne

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers


> [Original Message]
> From: Dodi Schultz <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>
> To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> Date: 9/22/2007 9:57:09 AM
> Subject: [Dixonary] OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
>
> This news, from Michael Quinion's weekly World Wide Words newsletter,
> today's edition (those of you who don't subscribe to this FREE
e-mailed
> weekly that deals with the English language from Oxford to Ohio to Oz:
get
> thee to worldwidewords.org, where you can sign up):
>
> Quinion notes that a quarterly update to the OED has just appeared
online,
> including some revisions and new entries. He reports:
>
> >> The US "chaise lounge" (a folk-etymological change to the French
> >> "chaise longue", meaning "long chair") appears for the first
time.
> >> OED new-words editor Katherine Connor Martin comments, "'Longue'
is
> >> an adjective modifying the noun. Postmodifying adjectives are now
> >> rare in English, and 'longue' has been reinterpreted as the
English
> >> noun 'lounge', which not only resembles the French word, but also
> >> has logical associations with a piece of furniture meant for
> >> reclining." Purists may not be satisfied with this...
>
> Grrrrrr.
>
> --Dodi

[waynescottmd@earthlink.net]

Andy, I've added your address to my address book. When you have time will
you please send me an e-mail to see if I was successful.

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers


> [Original Message]
> From: Anders Sterner <arsesq (AT) arsesq (DOT) com>
> To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> Date: 9/22/2007 4:06:09 PM
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
> Wayne, my email to you keeps bouncing. Please add arsesq (AT) arsesq (DOT) com to
> your safe senders list so you can get the Usual Suspects messages; or
> tell me you want to opt out.
>
> --arsesq
>

[Judy G. Russell]

>> The US "chaise lounge" (a folk-etymological change to the French
>> "chaise longue", meaning "long chair") appears for the first time.

Yeehaaaaaa! I WIN!!!

[Toni Savage]

Andy!! Hi!!!! LTNS!!

Do you have a copy of "Now Voyager?"
My nephew's in town and we are writing a book about
early Compuserve. (contributions welcome, but that's
a classic)

--- Anders Sterner <arsesq (AT) arsesq (DOT) com> wrote:

>
> Wayne, my email to you keeps bouncing. Please add
> arsesq (AT) arsesq (DOT) com to
> your safe senders list so you can get the Usual
> Suspects messages; or
> tell me you want to opt out.
>
> --arsesq
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On
> Behalf Of waynescottmd (AT) earthlink (DOT) net
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:07 PM
> To: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
> Grrrr indeed! I was upset when I read that in the
> Quinion newletter, and
> now I'm upset and angry all over again.
>
> Wayne
>
> If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I
> want to go where they
> went.
> --Will Rogers
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Dodi Schultz <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>
> > To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> > Date: 9/22/2007 9:57:09 AM
> > Subject: [Dixonary] OT: Bad news at the OED
> >
> >
> >
> > This news, from Michael Quinion's weekly World
> Wide Words newsletter,
> > today's edition (those of you who don't subscribe
> to this FREE
> e-mailed
> > weekly that deals with the English language from
> Oxford to Ohio to Oz:
> get
> > thee to worldwidewords.org, where you can sign
> up):
> >
> > Quinion notes that a quarterly update to the OED
> has just appeared
> online,
> > including some revisions and new entries. He
> reports:
> >
> > >> The US "chaise lounge" (a folk-etymological
> change to the French
> > >> "chaise longue", meaning "long chair")
> appears for the first
> time.
> > >> OED new-words editor Katherine Connor Martin
> comments, "'Longue'
> is
> > >> an adjective modifying the noun.
> Postmodifying adjectives are now
> > >> rare in English, and 'longue' has been
> reinterpreted as the
> English
> > >> noun 'lounge', which not only resembles the
> French word, but also
> > >> has logical associations with a piece of
> furniture meant for
> > >> reclining." Purists may not be satisfied with
> this...
> >
> > Grrrrrr.
> >
> > --Dodi
>
>
>


-- Toni Savage

[Lindsey]

Yeehaaaaaa! I WIN!!!
I'm with you. I had said some time ago that was the way things would eventually go. It would not be the first time that had happened when something moved into English from another language, and I am certain it will not be the last.

--Lindsey

[waynescottmd@earthlink.net]

Isn't it great to have Andy back?

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers

[Toni Savage]

Yep! Look at "tennis" which moved to English and back
to French!


"tenez" > "tennis" > "le tenis"


--- Lindsey <slbourne (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:

>
>
> Judy G. Russell;37844 Wrote:
> > Yeehaaaaaa! I WIN!!!
> I'm with you. I had said some time ago that was the
> way things would
> eventually go. It would not be the first time that
> had happened when
> something moved into English from another language,
> and I am certain it
> will not be the last.
>
> --Lindsey
>
>
> --
> Lindsey
>


-- Toni Savage

[Judy G. Russell]

Isn't it great to have Andy back?

I just hope he'll STAY around. We've all missed him!!!

[Judy G. Russell]

I'm with you. I had said some time ago that was the way things would eventually go. It would not be the first time that had happened when something moved into English from another language, and I am certain it will not be the last.


The fact is, people LOUNGE on a CHAISE, so calling it a chaise lounge is a proper English (or American) descriptive noun. Whether it started out in another language in another form is really irrelevant, unless we're going to start being like the French and going ballistic every time somebody says "hot dog"!

[JohnnyB]

Judy

I assume that your are not just trying to stir up those of us who have a bit of history and rejoice in our mongrel origin <grin>.

There is nothing wrong in choosing to have a totally oudated form of words in your language but why keep half the hybrid.. It
presumably is a "lounge chair" that you want to talk about so go for it. A "chaise lounge" is the worst of both worlds, you still
have a bit of French and you have the "rare post modifying adjective" (which doubtless will be changed eventually to "lounge chair"
anyway or even to "lounger") so I don't see the point. You guys go ahead and make the word you wish to use and the original can be
used for the piece of furniture it actually describes - which differs from country to country, it is often a deck-chair in France
but as far as I know is always padded in this country although often means an outdoor padded chair.and now means a chaise lounge in
yours.

JohnnyB

PS I found as the 4th definition: lounger:n A long couch, especially one having no back and a headrest at one end

[Paul Keating]

If you _lounge_ on a _chaise_, then shouldn't it be a _lounge chaise_ rather
than the other way around, just as you say _plunge pool_?

I don't buy the postpositive adjective idea one bit (as in _heirs
presumptive_), because I bet the plural is _chaise lounges_, not _chaises
lounge_.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague



----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy G. Russell" <jgr1 (AT) jgrussell (DOT) com>
Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED


> The fact is, people LOUNGE on a CHAISE, so calling it a chaise lounge

[waynescottmd@earthlink.net]

I agree totally, Johnny.

Wayne

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers


> [Original Message]
> From: JohnnyB <johnnybarrs (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> Date: 9/24/2007 9:32:11 AM
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
> Judy
>
> I assume that your are not just trying to stir up those of us who have a
bit of history and rejoice in our mongrel origin <grin>.
>
> There is nothing wrong in choosing to have a totally oudated form of
words in your language but why keep half the hybrid.. It
> presumably is a "lounge chair" that you want to talk about so go for it.
A "chaise lounge" is the worst of both worlds, you still
> have a bit of French and you have the "rare post modifying adjective"
(which doubtless will be changed eventually to "lounge chair"
> anyway or even to "lounger") so I don't see the point. You guys go ahead
and make the word you wish to use and the original can be
> used for the piece of furniture it actually describes - which differs
from country to country, it is often a deck-chair in France
> but as far as I know is always padded in this country although often
means an outdoor padded chair.and now means a chaise lounge in
> yours.
>
> JohnnyB
>
> PS I found as the 4th definition: lounger:n A long couch, especially one
having no back and a headrest at one end
>
>

[Dodi Schultz]

>> The fact is, people LOUNGE on a CHAISE, so calling it a chaise
>> lounge is a proper English (or American) descriptive noun.

With all due respect to, and admiration for, your legal, writerly, and
other skills, Judy, Wayne and I say, PHOOEY!

--Dodi

[Judy G. Russell]

I assume that your are not just trying to stir up those of us

I'm not???????

[Judy G. Russell]

I don't buy the postpositive adjective idea one bit

You don't have to. Americans have now adopted-adapted-modified-created a term that describes a particular style of furniture. Like it, dislike it, even hate it, that's the term, people use it, people understand it, and what else is required of language but that it convey a particular meaning to the people who use the term?

[Judy G. Russell]

I agree totally, Johnny.

You and Johnny and Dodi and Paul can all agree with each other. But (smirk) the OED now agrees with me...

[ktinkel]

My nephew's in town and we are writing a book about early Compuserve. (contributions welcome, but that's
a classic)Oooh — what a good idea!

What period counts as early? We have several old-timers (early 80s, anyway) over on the DTP Forum, and I bet some have stories to tell.

I joined before the Mac came out, with a 300-baud modem on an Apple II, when CIS was full of Radio Shack people (almost none of them female). Probably around 1979 or 1980.

If I didn’t finally throw it out with our last move, I may still have the user manual that explains how to use the weird text editor and the X library files.

[Toni Savage]

Ya know... we are totally completely restating EVERY
MESSAGE we posted on this topic in the old TAPCIS
forum back just before it closed...


--- Paul Keating <pjakeating (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>
> If you _lounge_ on a _chaise_, then shouldn't it be
> a _lounge chaise_ rather
> than the other way around, just as you say _plunge
> pool_?
>
> I don't buy the postpositive adjective idea one bit
> (as in _heirs
> presumptive_), because I bet the plural is _chaise
> lounges_, not _chaises
> lounge_.
>
> --
> Paul Keating
> The Hague
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judy G. Russell" <jgr1 (AT) jgrussell (DOT) com>
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
> > The fact is, people LOUNGE on a CHAISE, so calling
> it a chaise lounge
>
>


-- Toni Savage

[JohnnyB]

Judy

>
> You and Johnny and Dodi and Paul can all agree with each other. But
> (smirk) the OED now agrees with me...
>

I questioned my middle son on this (he works at OUP) and his response is that like any responsible reference work the OED
<quote>reports what people are doing without making judgements and should not in that sense be quoted as a source of correctness
merely of occurrence<end quote> So, while as I said before, you can do whatever you like with your language (just don't expect to be
understood all the time) you do not have reason to smirk about misuse, merely to agree with misuse <Oops vbgd&r>

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

Now that’s neat

Timings adrift again: Kathleen's message arrived here nearly an hour before I got a message asking me to approve it!! (ie someone
else had time to approve it more than an hour before me)

JohnnyB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> [mailto:Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of ktinkel
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:09 PM
> To: Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED

[Paul Keating]

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't complaining about an illiteracy
gaining currency to the point where it is no longer illiterate. That happens
all the time. 40 years ago, "different than" was in the same category. I
write it now myself, occasionally, with misgivings, because sometimes to
write anything else would sound stiff or old-fashioned or pompous. Time and
language move on.

I _was_ complaining about the pseudo-explanation from the lexicographer
trying to put a positive spin on it. That postpositive adjective thing is
poppycock.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague


----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy G. Russell" <jgr1 (AT) jgrussell (DOT) com>
To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:20 PM
Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED


>
>
> Paul Keating;37886 Wrote:
> > I don't buy the postpositive adjective idea one bit
>
> You don't have to. Americans have now adopted-adapted-modified-created
> a term that describes a particular style of furniture. Like it, dislike
> it, even hate it, that's the term, people use it, people understand it,
> and what else is required of language but that it convey a particular
> meaning to the people who use the term?
>
>
> --
> Judy G. Russell
>
> *-- jgr*
>

[Dodi Schultz]

>> Ya know... we are totally completely restating EVERY MESSAGE we
>> posted on this topic in the old TAPCIS forum back just before it
>> closed...

Paul, you are so right, and I am SO SORRY I started this by citing the
Quinion news item.

I apologize to one and all.

--Dodi

[Dodi Schultz]

>> 40 years ago, "different than" was in the same category. I write it
>> now myself, occasionally, with misgivings, because sometimes to write
>> anything else would sound stiff or old-fashioned or pompous.

Aren't you British, Paul? And don't the Brits all say "different to"?

In any event, "different than" and "different from" are both correct in
AmE. Depends what follows. If a noun or pronoun follows or is implied,
"from" (Judy's take on the "chaise" issue is different from mine).

But in many instances, often when a phrase--especially with an actual or
implied verb--follows, "than" is preferred, e.g.: This OED recognition of
legitimacy for "lounge" seems different to Judy than [it does] to me. Or,
Judy has a different position than I [do].

--DS

[waynescottmd@earthlink.net]

That silly smirk in not attractive on your lovely face!

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
went.
--Will Rogers


> [Original Message]
> From: Judy G. Russell <jgr1 (AT) jgrussell (DOT) com>
> To: <Dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>
> Date: 9/24/2007 1:57:24 PM
> Subject: [Dixonary] Re: OT: Bad news at the OED
>
>
>
> waynescottmd (AT) earthlink (DOT) net;37888 Wrote:
> > I agree totally, Johnny.
>
> You and Johnny and Dodi and Paul can all agree with each other. But
> (smirk) the OED now agrees with me...
>
>
> --
> Judy G. Russell
>
> *-- jgr*

[Lindsey]

Yep! Look at "tennis" which moved to English and backto French!
LOL!! I love it!!

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

unless we're going to start being like the French and going ballistic every time somebody says "hot dog"!
Exactly! The only shifts that I feel are worth resisting are those that decrease the precision of the language and contribute to confusion -- as with the trend to equate "bi-weekly" with "semi-weekly," or biennial with semi-annual.

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Ya know... we are totally completely restating EVERY MESSAGE we posted on this topic in the old TAPCIS
forum back just before it closed...
Any good argument is worth repeating...

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

I don't buy the postpositive adjective idea one bit (as in _heirs presumptive_) . . .
Post modifying adjectives in American English tend to be legal or governmental terms (heir presumptive, attorney general), which are the "preserved in amber" sorts of things that are the exception to the rule.

I think you would find that most people using "chaise lounge" consider "lounge" to be the noun in that phrase, not the adjective. "Chaise," that is, is considered to describe a type of lounge (one that is like a chair) and not the other way around.

(BTW, what means "plunge pool"? That is not a term I have ever heard.)

--Lindsey

[earler]

Aside from the rest, the french don't "go ballistic" when they hear hot dog. Where did you get such an idea? It is one of many words and phrases borrowed from english, like week-end, sandwich, and many others. Bear in mind english borrowed many words from french during the 18th century, too.

[Paul Keating]

I'm Irish, but I can speak Southern British well enough to be taken for
English (if I take trouble over it), and also South African.

And no, they don't.

He is using the word in a quite different sense than he did yesterday.
A very different Pamela than I used to leave all company and pleasure for
(Richardson).

It's not a common construction in BrE and some (eg Burchfield, who revised
Fowler in 1996) recommend recasting the sentence entirely in order to avoid
it, while others (eg Gowers, who revised Fowler in 1965) see little harm in
it.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodi Schultz" <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>

Aren't you British, Paul? And don't the Brits all say "different to"?

[Paul Keating]

plunge pool: a cold-water pool, esp. used to cool and invigorate the body
after a hot bath, sauna, etc. (OED)

It's too small to swim around in: you can only jump in and climb out.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lindsey" <slbourne (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>



> (BTW, what means "plunge pool"? That is not a term I have ever
> heard.)

[Toni Savage]

That was I who said that, and I thought it was COOL!

There are some people here who weren't in on it, and
others who like to relive the past (like me..grin). I
bring up that thread all the time in conversation!



--- Dodi Schultz <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com> wrote:

>
>
> >> Ya know... we are totally completely restating
> EVERY MESSAGE we
> >> posted on this topic in the old TAPCIS forum
> back just before it
> >> closed...
>
> Paul, you are so right, and I am SO SORRY I started
> this by citing the
> Quinion news item.
>
> I apologize to one and all.
>
> --Dodi
>


-- Toni Savage

[Toni Savage]

That was I who said that, and I thought it was COOL!

There are some people here who weren't in on it, and
others who like to relive the past (like me..grin). I
bring up that thread all the time in conversation!



--- Dodi Schultz <SCHULTZ (AT) compuserve (DOT) com> wrote:

>
>
> >> Ya know... we are totally completely restating
> EVERY MESSAGE we
> >> posted on this topic in the old TAPCIS forum
> back just before it
> >> closed...
>
> Paul, you are so right, and I am SO SORRY I started
> this by citing the
> Quinion news item.
>
> I apologize to one and all.
>
> --Dodi
>


-- Toni Savage

[Toni Savage]

The Academie Francais?

There have been many pronouncements from that august
body about how the words you mention are NOT in the
French Language.

Toni

<ah! NOW we have the full circle...>

--- earler <er (AT) compuserve (DOT) com> wrote:

>
>
> Aside from the rest, the french don't "go ballistic"
> when they hear hot
> dog. Where did you get such an idea? It is one of
> many words and
> phrases borrowed from english, like week-end,
> sandwich, and many
> others. Bear in mind english borrowed many words
> from french during the
> 18th century, too.
>
>
> --
> earler
>
> asdffdas
> sads-er
>


-- Toni Savage

[Toni Savage]

The Academie Francais?

There have been many pronouncements from that august
body about how the words you mention are NOT in the
French Language.

Toni

<ah! NOW we have the full circle...>

--- earler <er (AT) compuserve (DOT) com> wrote:

>
>
> Aside from the rest, the french don't "go ballistic"
> when they hear hot
> dog. Where did you get such an idea? It is one of
> many words and
> phrases borrowed from english, like week-end,
> sandwich, and many
> others. Bear in mind english borrowed many words
> from french during the
> 18th century, too.
>
>
> --
> earler
>
> asdffdas
> sads-er
>


-- Toni Savage

[Judy G. Russell]

I _was_ complaining about the pseudo-explanation from the lexicographer trying to put a positive spin on it. That postpositive adjective thing is poppycock.

Fair enough. I think the real explanation is simple: it's a term that people like and want to use!

[Judy G. Russell]

you do not have reason to smirk about misuse, merely to agree with misuse <Oops vbgd&r>

What defines "use" and "misuse"? Why is it "misuse" for a language to evolve and to adopt/adapt/modify terms as the years go by?

[Judy G. Russell]

That was I who said that, and I thought it was COOL! There are some people here who weren't in on it, and others who like to relive the past (like me..grin). I bring up that thread all the time in conversation!

I couldn't agree more. The fact is, it's just plain flat out wonderful to have a place where people can have this much fun arguing about words.

[Lindsey]

plunge pool: a cold-water pool, esp. used to cool and invigorate the body
after a hot bath, sauna, etc. (OED)

It's too small to swim around in: you can only jump in and climb out.
Ah, I see. "Plunge pool" is not a term I'm familiar with. Around here, that might be called a wading pool if it is only ankle-to-calf deep, something that is normally only for small children to play in. If it's warm water with jets, we'd call it a hot tub or a Jacuzzi. But I think maybe you mean something like what I've only heard called an above-ground pool -- something about 4 or 4-1/2 feet high, circular, and maybe 15 feet in diameter. Large enough for several adults to stand around in, or someone to use a float in, but not much more than that.

If none of those are what you mean, then I don't think I have ever seen or heard of one.

--Lindsey

[JohnnyB]

Judy

I was not objecting to langauge evolving. The French have tried that and failed! I was merely making the comment that the
relationship between the ancient and the modern in this case is probably originally fortuitous rather than an evolution. Like
correcting the spelling of "longue" which, surprise-surprise, gives "lounge" and which probably occurred to a reader for no-one who
heard the words "chaze longg" would have thought of replacing "lownj" for "longg". I know I am making up a scenarion but this case
does not strike me as originating in language itself, more on the printed page. - Of course, what happens thereafter as it is taken
up into the language is an evolution and makes us all richer

JohnnyB


>
> What defines "use" and "misuse"? Why is it "misuse" for a
> language to evolve and to adopt/adapt/modify terms as the years go by?
>

[Judy G. Russell]

If none of those are what you mean, then I don't think I have ever seen or heard of one.

It's much smaller, Lindsey. Check out this page (http://www.diamondspas.com/ColdPlunge.htm). It's literally a jump in-climb out thing.

[Judy G. Russell]

Of course, what happens thereafter as it is taken
up into the language is an evolution and makes us all richer

However it happens, it's wonderful fun, and what keeps the language very much a living critter.

[earler]

The académie française is basically a place for people of some eminence, supposedly in the arts, but it also has retired politicians. As for the dictionary, well that is something of a joke. The académie's pronouncements are ignored. At the current pace the new dictionary will be finished some time around 2060.

[earler]

Your etymology of the word 'tennis' is some doubt. The oed has said this based on several points. First the original name of the game was jeu de paume, not le tennis. All the oed hasards to say is that it might be from tenez, the 2nd person plural of the verb tenir in modern french. However, it is far from certain.

[Lindsey]

It's much smaller, Lindsey. Check out this page (http://www.diamondspas.com/ColdPlunge.htm). It's literally a jump in-climb out thing.
I've never seen anything like that, but I see on that page that those are a European phenomenon.

"Cold plunge pools are kept at a constant 50 to 55 degrees."

Yikes!!! Cold plunge indeed! That would certainly explain the warning at the bottom of the page that pregnant women and people with heart conditions should not use cold plunge pools. :eek:

No wonder you said they were jump in, climb out. You wouldn't want to linger in 50-55 degree water. Geez!

--Lindsey

[Toni Savage]

ummm...yeah, it would not have been a big deal for the
name to go back as the same name. "Jeu de paume" was
replaced by "le tenis".

I'm not sure who doubts that the name "Tennis" came
from "Tenez!" , but I'm sure there are some folks.

TS

--- earler <er (AT) compuserve (DOT) com> wrote:

>
>
> Your etymology of the word 'tennis' is some doubt.
> The oed has said this
> based on several points. First the original name of
> the game was jeu de
> paume, not le tennis. All the oed hasards to say is
> that it might be
> from tenez, the 2nd person plural of the verb tenir
> in modern french.
> However, it is far from certain.
>
>
> --
> earler
>
> asdffdas
> sads-er
>


-- Toni Savage

[Judy G. Russell]

I've never seen anything like that, but I see on that page that those are a European phenomenon. "Cold plunge pools are kept at a constant 50 to 55 degrees." Yikes!!! Cold plunge indeed! That would certainly explain the warning at the bottom of the page that pregnant women and people with heart conditions should not use cold plunge pools. :eek: No wonder you said they were jump in, climb out. You wouldn't want to linger in 50-55 degree water. Geez!

Yeah, given that temperature range, it isn't going to be anything I'd sign up for on Saturday mornings, that's for sure.

[Bill Hirst]

Iirc, ... yes, I did recall correctly. A plunge pool is often used in
conjunction with a sauna, for alternate heating and cooling. It lets
the user enjoy the benefits of opening the pores and sweating in the
sauna, then keep the body's core temperature under control by cooling
the outer layers in the plunge pool. <http://www.hazelden.org.uk/
l3_sauna.htm>

-Bill

On Sep 26, 11:21 pm, "Judy G. Russell" <j... (AT) jgrussell (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, given that temperature range, it isn't going to be anything I'd
> sign up for on Saturday mornings, that's for sure.
>
> --
> Judy G. Russell
>
> *-- jgr*

[Judy G. Russell]

A plunge pool is often used in
conjunction with a sauna, for alternate heating and cooling. It lets
the user enjoy the benefits of opening the pores and sweating in the
sauna, then keep the body's core temperature under control by cooling
the outer layers in the plunge pool.

The notion of alternately boiling and freezing leaves me (shall I say it?) cold...

[earler]

The oed expresses some doubt.

[dixonary@siam.co.uk]

> And don't the Brits all say "different to"?
>
(Belatedly, having been on holiday)

No, certainly not - or at least not always. I think
"different from" is probably the most common.

Best wishes,

Tim B