On a lighter note...

[Lindsey]

At the risk of seeming insensitive, I wanted to call attention to a news report that despite its deeply serious nature, injected for me a touch of levity into the reports coming out of Virgina Tech yesterday.

Robert Siegel (http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/rsiegel.html) is one of my favorite people at NPR. He is witty, erudite, unfailingly polite, and a master of the art of understatement. He is not easily flummmoxed, but when he is, it is usually when he encounters the truly incomprehensible, as when Karl Rove told him (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6376549) in a discussion about poll results just before last fall's election, "You are entitled to your math, but I'm entitled to the math."

Siegel came up against incomprehensibility of another sort yesterday in an interview with Gene Cole (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9605740), a custodian at Virginia Tech, who had briefly encountered the gunman in Norris Hall. Siegel, a native of New York City, seemed to find the custodian's thick southwest Virginia drawl just about impenetrable. (Quite honestly, I did, too!) For a minute there, I could just picture him scrambling through the producer's notes for a clue as to what the guy was telling him.

It's not a laughing situation, but there is no situation so tragic that it doesn't have its brief moments of comedy.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Siegel, a native of New York City, seemed to find the custodian's thick southwest Virginia drawl just about impenetrable. (Quite honestly, I did, too!) For a minute there, I could just picture him scrambling through the producer's notes for a clue as to what the guy was telling him. It's not a laughing situation, but there is no situation so tragic that it doesn't have its brief moments of comedy.Ay-yuh, ay-yuh.

[Lindsey]

Ay-yuh, ay-yuh.
First time I've ever heard anyone turn "floor" into a 3-syllable word...

Credit where credit is due, though: the guy showed real courage when he tried to approach that fallen student to see if he could help.

--Lindsey

[earler]

Thank god the perp wasn't an arab or an iranian. Otherwise, the political ramifications would have been horrendous.

[Judy G. Russell]

First time I've ever heard anyone turn "floor" into a 3-syllable word...Southwestern Virginia is... well... a world unto itself.


Credit where credit is due, though: the guy showed real courage when he tried to approach that fallen student to see if he could help. Absolutely. A lot of people -- this fellow, other students, that professor who held the door and told his students to flee -- showed astonishing courage.

[Lindsey]

Southwestern Virginia is... well... a world unto itself.
Well, the mountains of North Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Kentucky harbor pretty thick accents, too.

Have you ever seen the play "The Foreigner"? That guy's accent reminded me of a scene from that play, in which Ellerd, the "slow learner" in the household, is trying to teach the "foreign" guest, who supposedly does not speak English, some basic vocabulary over the breakfast table. After going through words like "plate," "spoon," and "egg," his lesson goes something like this:

"OK, this word is a little longer, so listen carefully: fork. Two syllables, f-o-e-werk."

And the guest (actually an Englishman who speaks perfectly good English, but is pretending not to so that he won't be expected to converse with anyone) echos back perfectly, "F-o-e-werk."

Puts me in the floor every time.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Well, the mountains of North Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Kentucky harbor pretty thick accents, too.Tell me about it. Fortunately, my ear picks up the cadence pretty quickly but for the first few minutes with folks in those areas, they might as well be speaking Greek.

[Gail]

At the risk of seeming insensitive, I wanted to call attention to a news report that despite its deeply serious nature, injected for me a touch of levity into the reports coming out of Virgina Tech yesterday.

Robert Siegel (http://www.npr.org/about/people/bios/rsiegel.html) is one of my favorite people at NPR. He is witty, erudite, unfailingly polite, and a master of the art of understatement. He is not easily flummmoxed, but when he is, it is usually when he encounters the truly incomprehensible, as when Karl Rove told him (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6376549) in a discussion about poll results just before last fall's election, "You are entitled to your math, but I'm entitled to the math."

Siegel came up against incomprehensibility of another sort yesterday in an interview with Gene Cole (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9605740), a custodian at Virginia Tech, who had briefly encountered the gunman in Norris Hall. Siegel, a native of New York City, seemed to find the custodian's thick southwest Virginia drawl just about impenetrable. (Quite honestly, I did, too!) For a minute there, I could just picture him scrambling through the producer's notes for a clue as to what the guy was telling him.

It's not a laughing situation, but there is no situation so tragic that it doesn't have its brief moments of comedy.

--Lindsey

OMG! Kudos to Robert Siegel. The custodian sounded like someone from Kentucky who had forgotten to put his teeth in!

Oh.... I guess southwestern VA and Kentucky accents might be somewhat similar. The reason I mentioned Kentucky was that the guy who installed our place in Annapolis was from Kentucky and I literally couldn't understand a word he said. I kept asking my contractor to translate, and the only reason he understood him was that he had relatives in Kentucky so was somewhat used to hearing the accent.

[Lindsey]

Tell me about it. Fortunately, my ear picks up the cadence pretty quickly but for the first few minutes with folks in those areas, they might as well be speaking Greek.
After listening to that NPR clip a couple of times, it wasn't quite so incomprehensible, but the first time I heard it -- well, I was going to say that it did sound like Greek, but that's not quite right. Maybe like Greek run over by an 18-wheeler...

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

The custodian sounded like someone from Kentucky who had forgotten to put his teeth in!
ROFL! That's a very good description!

Oh.... I guess southwestern VA and Kentucky accents might be somewhat similar.
Yeah, that whole mountain area there, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee and up into West Virginia. Some of those native mountain people can be a challenge to understand, at least until you get your ear somewhat tuned to it.

Of course, it's not just mountain drawls. One of the events of the Nation magazine cruise I was on in 2004 was an interview of Molly Ivins by Calvin Trillin. The event was in the afternoon of a day we were in port, starting just an hour or so before we were to sail out. I was a little late getting to the auditorium, because a shore excursion I had been on was late getting in. In fact, I think that was the dolphin swim, and I had to change my clothes, because I had on a wet bathing suit. So I slipped in at the back of the auditorium, feeling lucky to find a seat at all, and not long after I sat down, a guy and his wife came in and sat next to me, but I wasn't paying much attention to them.

Molly launched into one of her many stories about the foibles of Texas politicians. This one was about a guy who cultivated a tough persona; liked to brag about how he had played football on a broken ankle and how he could "clahmb" over "bob wahr" without flinching. The guy next to me turned to ask me a question, and it wasn't until I turned to answer him that I realized that I was sitting next to Robert Scheer (another New York City native). "What is 'bob wahr'?" he asked. I had to explain that "bob wahr" was Texan for "barbed wire".

(The upshot of Molly's story -- which I would give anything to be able to relate in all its hilarious glory -- was that this super tough ex-football player went on a trip to San Francisco and when he showered in the hotel, he put shower caps on his feet so that he wouldn't catch AIDS.)

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

After listening to that NPR clip a couple of times, it wasn't quite so incomprehensible, but the first time I heard it -- well, I was going to say that it did sound like Greek, but that's not quite right. Maybe like Greek run over by an 18-wheeler...Yep... even the worst accents tend to "grow" on you. But initially?

And then there was the time I finally met in person an English member of Compuserve's Lawsig forum. He was from Birmingham. I never caught on to his accent. I didn't understand more than one word in three even after an hour.

[Mike Bourquin]

First time I've ever heard anyone turn "floor" into a 3-syllable word...

--Lindsey

Hi Linsdey,

Long time ....

And you a graduate of Randolph-Macon.

How could the four syllables of words like "red" ever have escaped you? It's "ray-yuh-duh-uh". True, that final syllable is optional for us laypeople. It's more a thing of Baptist preachers.

_Mike

[Lindsey]

And you a graduate of Randolph-Macon.
Nobody at R-M ever sounded like that!

--Lindsey

[Mike Bourquin]

Nobody at R-M ever sounded like that!

--Lindsey

Maybe you won't hear it much in town, but out in the country, especially among the older folks, you'll hear some remarkably thick accents. And I'm not talking about back in the hills, I mean in Central Virginia, right up to Richmond.

And I love some of the colloquialisms. A man might could write a whole book of 'em and you 'uns could have a good laugh. All y'all could enjoy it.
_Mike

[Gail]

"What is 'bob wahr'?" he asked. I had to explain that "bob wahr" was Texan for "barbed wire".

LOL! That one I would have understood, as they say that here, too. And "fahr" for what you get when you strike a match. And "tahr" for those round things your car rides on. And it doesn't rhyme with the others, but they also say sosh (long o) scurity for.... well, I guess that's obvious. <g>


(The upshot of Molly's story -- which I would give anything to be able to relate in all its hilarious glory -- was that this super tough ex-football player went on a trip to San Francisco and when he showered in the hotel, he put shower caps on his feet so that he wouldn't catch AIDS.)



ROFL!!!

[Judy G. Russell]

out in the country, especially among the older folks, you'll hear some remarkably thick accents. And I'm not talking about back in the hills, I mean in Central Virginia, right up to Richmond.Tell me about it. My mother's family is in Fluvanna County and at her funeral there in 1999, there were some people I simply couldn't understand. If I'd had enough time with them, my ear would have adjusted, but whoooooeeeeee. Talk about accents thick enough to cut with a knife!

[Lindsey]

And I'm not talking about back in the hills, I mean in Central Virginia, right up to Richmond.
No central Virginia native sounds like that custodian. Yes, some older residents of more rural areas have a somewhat more pronounced drawl than residents of more urban or urban-suburban areas, and they're more prone to use phrases like "over yonder," but it's still a far cry from what you hear in the southwest part of the state.

--Lindsey

[Mike Bourquin]

Talk about accents thick enough to cut with a knife!

I think there's a lesson here for us: never attempt to teach your child to speak when you have your face full of tobacco.

I can't imagine what else could explain that accent.

_Mike

[Mike Bourquin]

No central Virginia native sounds like that custodian. Yes, some older residents of more rural areas have a somewhat more pronounced drawl ... but it's still a far cry from what you hear in the southwest part of the state.

--Lindsey

A drawl is one thing, but a lot of rural Virginians sound like they have a grapefruit-sized wade of tobacco in their mouths, even where they don't.

My wife and I sell recording's and books at fiddle contests and bluegrass festivals and manage to get ourselves well out into the country, meeting a lot of folks. I'm surprized at the range of accent you find within a locality. I suspect it has to do with how much contact a person has outside his immediate family. A farmer, for example, might do most of his talking to people very close to him and never find reason to clean up his mode of speech. A tradesman or retail worker on the other hand has to be able to communicate with a wider range of people and they also hear a greater variety of accent, so they have those examples ot work from. People are pretty adaptable when it comes to speech.

_Mike

[Judy G. Russell]

I think there's a lesson here for us: never attempt to teach your child to speak when you have your face full of tobacco.
I can't imagine what else could explain that accent.I could come up with a few suggestions, but that would be the Yankee in me talking...

[Mike Bourquin]

Sorry about the Quote - still figgrin out the software

<<< I could come up with a few suggestions,
<<< but that would be the Yankee in me talking...


I'm a New Jerseyan myself, but South Jersey, so bettah watch yo tongue! <G>

_Mike

[Judy G. Russell]

Sorry about the Quote - still figgrin out the softwareIt's easy. Hit the QUOTE button and delete anything you don't want between the first QUOTE in brackets and the last /QUOTE in brackets. Copy and paste the two if you want to break things into different sections. (You always want the quoted material to be between a bracketed QUOTE and a bracketed /QUOTE.)

I'm a New Jerseyan myself, but South Jersey, so bettah watch yo tongue! <G>I'm a Coloradan myself, but grew up in Central Jersey where I still live, and you Southerners don't scare me a bit!

[looking around, nervously]

[Mike Bourquin]

It's easy. Hit the QUOTE button and delete anything you don't want between the first QUOTE in brackets and the last /QUOTE in brackets. Copy and paste the two if you want to break things into different sections. (You always want the quoted material to be between a bracketed QUOTE and a bracketed /QUOTE.)

Actually, my problem was that given something like three ways to Reply, I found the one I wanted least, but was just too darned lazy to do anything about it. <G> I'm trying you suggestions here though. Let's see what sort of stoodent I am.


I'm a Coloradan myself, but grew up in Central Jersey where I still live, and you Southerners don't scare me a bit!

[looking around, nervously]

Us Jersey Southerners mostly just scare ourselves.

_Mike (not bad. I'll take it!)

[Judy G. Russell]

Let's see what sort of stoodent I am.You done good! See how easy it is? Also note the little box that appears inside the quote in any message that has a quote. That links back to the parent message so you can see in more detail what the person originally wrote.

Us Jersey Southerners mostly just scare ourselves.Any group that has the Jersey Devil on its side (or on its turf) is not to be trifled with.

[Lindsey]

A farmer, for example, might do most of his talking to people very close to him and never find reason to clean up his mode of speech.
See, I have trouble with that notion that some people's accents need to be "cleaned up" and other people's accents do not. Just because the natives of Tangier Island, for example, speak a dialect that is little changed from the original 17th-century Cornish speech of the early inhabitants, protected from change by the island's isolation, does that mean that their speech is somehow "wrong" because it is so different from the accent that has come to be adopted as the American standard?

--Lindsey

BTW, interesting article here (http://newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Common%2FMGArticle%2FPrintVersi on&c=MGArticle&cid=1031780516384&image=newsadvance80x60.gif&oasDN=newsadvance.com) about the speech of Central Virginia. (Or try the Google cached copy (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:EPfXzAy9wGoJ:newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite%3Fpagename%3DCommon%252FMGArticle%252FPr intVersion%26c%3DMGArticle%26cid%3D1031780516384%2 6image%3Dnewsadvance80x60.gif%26oasDN%3Dnewsadvanc e.com+%22speech+patterns%22+%22central+virginia%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us) if that site won't come up.)

Oh, and hey, check this out: http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html I came out 65% Dixie, much to my surprise (since most of my answers seemed to place me in no particular place at all).

[Mike Bourquin]

You done good! See how easy it is?

Well, I had a good teacher.

Also note the little box ... That links back to the parent message...

Seems a bit funky, but it does work and it does serve a useful function. Let' keep it.

Any group that has the Jersey Devil on its side (or on its turf) is not to be trifled with.

If you think the Ol' Devil inspires respect, wait to we finish our new mosquito. When that puppy lands on your neck, you go down for the full count! <G>

Hey! This quote thing is fun!

_Mike

[Mike Bourquin]

See, I have trouble with that notion that some people's accents need to be "cleaned up" and other people's accents do not. Just because the natives of Tangier Island, for example, speak a dialect that is little changed from the original 17th-century Cornish speech of the early inhabitants, protected from change by the island's isolation, does that mean that their speech is somehow "wrong" because it is so different from the accent that has come to be adopted as the American standard?

Hey, I'm with you. I like the history behind accents, and coloquial speech. To a great extent the movement to record the various rural cultures before they all became homogenized and the folk music revival are interwined. Colonies broken off from the Old World tend contain cultural snapshots of what the parent culture was at the time they were established. The French spoken is some parts of Quebec are very close to what French was 400 years ago and unlike anything you'll hear anywhere else today. I wouldn't change that sort of thing for the world.


BTW, interesting article here (http://newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Common%2FMGArticle%2FPrintVersi on&c=MGArticle&cid=1031780516384&image=newsadvance80x60.gif&oasDN=newsadvance.com) about the speech of Central Virginia. (Or try the Google cached copy (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:EPfXzAy9wGoJ:newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite%3Fpagename%3DCommon%252FMGArticle%252FPr intVersion%26c%3DMGArticle%26cid%3D1031780516384%2 6image%3Dnewsadvance80x60.gif%26oasDN%3Dnewsadvanc e.com+%22speech+patterns%22+%22central+virginia%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us) if that site won't come up.)

Thanks! Wound up saving a copy of the cached version because the other refused to cooperate. Glad you thought to provide both URLs.

Oh, and hey, check this out: http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html I came out 65% Dixie, much to my surprise (since most of my answers seemed to place me in no particular place at all).

I saw your post elsewhere. I tried it. Turned out more yankee than not. But I have to say, I was stumped on "caught", mostly because I couldn't decide how to handle the phoneticized version "Kawt". And for a lot of the others, I had to choose. For example, I pronouce "route" both 'root' and 'rout' depending on how I'm using them. I grew up calling that long sandwich a 'hoagy', but eventully came to refer to it as a 'sub'.

By the way, I think 'hero' -the sandwich- comes from the greek 'gyro', also a sandwich. Maybe that's obvious, but I've never heard that from anyone else.

_Mike

[Judy G. Russell]

If you think the Ol' Devil inspires respect, wait to we finish our new mosquito. When that puppy lands on your neck, you go down for the full count! <G>True story. My next door neighbor as I was growing up was a man by the name of Bailey B. Pepper. He was chairman of the Department of Entomology at Rutgers University. He went to a conference on mosquito control in Moscow one year, came back and said, almost in awe, "It's true. The New Jersey mosquito is the biggest and meanest in the world!" (He was also quite a storyteller, but the meanest part I believe!)

Hey! This quote thing is fun!Toldja so.

[Lindsey]

Hey, I'm with you. I like the history behind accents, and coloquial speech.
I do, too, and it saddens me to think of those things being lost. But apparently we are not on the way to becoming completely homogenized. Somwhere I read that although local accents were disappearing, regional accents were becoming more pronounced. I don't think I'm entirely happy with that, either, but it's better than everyone sounding like Tom Brokaw. (Not that I have anything against the way he sounds, but I like variety.)

I saw your post elsewhere. I tried it. Turned out more yankee than not. But I have to say, I was stumped on "caught", mostly because I couldn't decide how to handle the phoneticized version "Kawt".
Actually, it was only one post, but I think Judy decided to duplicate it to start a new thread. But regarding "kawt" -- funny, I can't imagine more than one way to pronounce that phonetization, but maybe that's just my own limited imagination. At any rate, that's the choice I made, which apparently places me firmly in the South.

And for a lot of the others, I had to choose. For example, I pronouce "route" both 'root' and 'rout' depending on how I'm using them. I grew up calling that long sandwich a 'hoagy', but eventully came to refer to it as a 'sub'.
I use both pronunciations of "route," too, and I'm not sure just what governs which I use -- maybe just whatever comes to mind at the time.

I had never heard the term "hoagy" (or "hoagie") until I spent time in Pennsylvania. When the church youth group put up posters around the church taking orders for them as a money-making project, I had to get someone to explain to me what a hoagie was.


By the way, I think 'hero' -the sandwich- comes from the greek 'gyro', also a sandwich. Maybe that's obvious, but I've never heard that from anyone else.
I'm sure that's right; I have heard that elsewhere, but I have no idea where.

--Lindsey