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Judy G. Russell
March 29th, 2007, 08:58 AM
I would have failed it too and I had an edge: My grandmother was a college graduate and taught in public, catholic and Lutheran schools: where she taught English, Greek, Latin and Anglo Saxon (don't ask me where she managed to teach the last subject). (She was a bear on grammar. No blackboards... just memorization.)Anglo Saxon??? Who in the world took Anglo Saxon in high school???

ndebord
March 29th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Anglo Saxon??? Who in the world took Anglo Saxon in high school???

Judy,

I have no idea who, but I do know that my grandmother quit the public schools (way back when) because she didn't think the curriculum was tough enough. She wanted Greek and Latin to be mandatory.

<shrug>

I memorized the prologue to Chauser's Canterbury Tales (in Anglo Saxon) for a speech class thanks to her. I was stuttering in modern English, you see. (BTW, the teacher gave me an F for not doing my assignment in English! She subsequently changed it to an A after a certain old lady had a talk with her!)

<sly grin>

Judy G. Russell
March 30th, 2007, 12:26 AM
She subsequently changed it to an A after a certain old lady had a talk with her! <sly grin>Gotta love those ol' ladies...

Lindsey
March 30th, 2007, 12:51 AM
My first reaction was to wonder whether there was really such a language as "Anglo-Saxon," but from your reference to Chaucer, I see that what you have called Anglo-Saxon is what I believe today's scholars call "Middle English."

It can be a wonderful thing to listen to; I remember an English professor reading us the prologue to the Canterbury Tales in the original, and it was like listening to music.

--Lindsey

ndebord
March 31st, 2007, 12:58 AM
My first reaction was to wonder whether there was really such a language as "Anglo-Saxon," but from your reference to Chaucer, I see that what you have called Anglo-Saxon is what I believe today's scholars call "Middle English."

It can be a wonderful thing to listen to; I remember an English professor reading us the prologue to the Canterbury Tales in the original, and it was like listening to music.

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

It was wonderful to learn and to recite. Tried to do it again not so long ago and some of it came back to me, but overall I was woefully bad. (I was listening to it on a CD and what my memory says I did, and what my vocal cords do now don't match up very well. Should have practiced it more from time to time.

You had to see the look on the faces of my fellow students (not to forget the teach) when I (the stutterer) got up in front of the class and read this thing flawlessly from start to finish. It was priceless!

P.S. BTW, my Gram would have laughed at the airs of today's scholars to call it Middle English. <g>

Lindsey
March 31st, 2007, 11:34 PM
Should have practiced it more from time to time.
You can still practice and probably get it back -- especially since you apparently have a CD of someone reading it.

You had to see the look on the faces of my fellow students (not to forget the teach) when I (the stutterer) got up in front of the class and read this thing flawlessly from start to finish. It was priceless!
It's funny how those things work, isn't it? There's a vocal condition known as "spasmodic dysphonia" whose sufferers often find that they can engage in singing or even public speaking fairly normally, but experience great difficulty speaking in normal conversation.

P.S. BTW, my Gram would have laughed at the airs of today's scholars to call it Middle English. <g>
Airs? Well, I don't know about that -- I would imagine it's considered a more precise descripton of the language. The language of Chaucer is close enough to modern English that it is possible for English speakers to understand most of it without special instruction. The language of the Anglo-Saxons would have been something closer to, say, Danish.

--Lindsey

earler
April 1st, 2007, 09:49 AM
Old english is closer to frisian and to dutch than to danish.

Lindsey
April 2nd, 2007, 01:50 AM
Old english is closer to frisian and to dutch than to danish.
OK -- I'll take your word for that, because I really don't know.

Out of curiousity, does Danish itself also have Frisian-like roots? I was under the impression that the Anglo-Saxon invaders (and there were some Jutes in that mix too, I believe) were from Scandinavia.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 2nd, 2007, 09:55 AM
Out of curiousity, does Danish itself also have Frisian-like roots? I was under the impression that the Anglo-Saxon invaders (and there were some Jutes in that mix too, I believe) were from Scandinavia.They're all part of the German language group -- Danish, Dutch, Frisian, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish as well as German (and, of course, to some degree, English).

Lindsey
April 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM
They're all part of the German language group -- Danish, Dutch, Frisian, Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish as well as German (and, of course, to some degree, English).
And it would make sense for them to have a "direct descendant" relationship with Frisian, if that's the semi-ur-version of the group, and a cousin relationship with each other. And if Old English is separated by fewer generations from Frisian than modern Danish, it would make sense for it to be closer to Frisian. OTOH, it could be just a close, maybe even closer, to an older version of Danish.

And of course, what I was getting at in the beginning was that Old English was closer to one of those Germanic languages than to modern English.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 2nd, 2007, 08:15 PM
what I was getting at in the beginning was that Old English was closer to one of those Germanic languages than to modern English.And I think you are quite right on that.

ndebord
April 2nd, 2007, 11:08 PM
And it would make sense for them to have a "direct descendant" relationship with Frisian, if that's the semi-ur-version of the group, and a cousin relationship with each other. And if Old English is separated by fewer generations from Frisian than modern Danish, it would make sense for it to be closer to Frisian. OTOH, it could be just a close, maybe even closer, to an older version of Danish.

And of course, what I was getting at in the beginning was that Old English was closer to one of those Germanic languages than to modern English.

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

Yes Old English, by any name, is much closer to Germanic languages than to modern English and although my Gram would not have used the term, she was of a different environment and time.

<shrug>

earler
April 3rd, 2007, 03:09 PM
Anglo saxon refers to the people and is rarely used to refer to the language, except in the sense of english in general. Your aunt taught old english. Chaucer wrote in middle english. In general, people don't study middle english but learn it as they read chaucer. When I was in graduate school I studied old english, by the way.

ndebord
April 4th, 2007, 02:24 AM
Anglo saxon refers to the people and is rarely used to refer to the language, except in the sense of english in general. Your aunt taught old english. Chaucer wrote in middle english. In general, people don't study middle english but learn it as they read chaucer. When I was in graduate school I studied old english, by the way.

Earle,

Care to see if either of us can recite the Prologue with any kind of accuracy at this late date?

<g>

earler
April 4th, 2007, 03:11 AM
No, thank you. It would be impossible for me to do so.

ktinkel
April 4th, 2007, 09:17 AM
Care to see if either of us can recite the Prologue with any kind of accuracy at this late date?I can go several lines. Such beautiful language, even in my crude approximation.

ndebord
April 4th, 2007, 09:52 AM
No, thank you. It would be impossible for me to do so.

Earle,

It's funny, as I read your post, the first few lines of the prologue came into my head and I was able to remember more this time around than I thought I could.

The last time (some years ago now) that I thought about it was when I heard someone reciting it on a satellite tv show and as they read the lines, I tried to read along (out loud). It was then that I realized how poorly my vocal cords were doing and how bastardized my recitation had become.

<g>

ndebord
April 4th, 2007, 09:57 AM
I can go several lines. Such beautiful language, even in my crude approximation.

I too can do several lines now, but it doesn't sound like it should. I'm afraid my skills have slipped greatly.

I totally agree with you, the language trips delightfully off your tongue. Much more so than modern English. There is a distinct rhythm (at least in how I was taught to say it) to the phraseology.

rlohmann
April 6th, 2007, 05:10 PM
I have no idea who [took Anglo-Saxon in high school], but I do know that my grandmother quit the public schools (way back when) because she didn't think the curriculum was tough enough. She wanted Greek and Latin to be mandatory.

Sounds like my kinda woman. :)

(I didn't take Anglo-Saxon or Middle English until my sophomore year in college, but I did have four years of Latin in high school.)

I memorized the prologue to Chauser's Canterbury Tales (in Anglo Saxon) You couldn't have, Nick. Chaucer wrote in Middle English.

"Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote
The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote..."

That was about 400 years later than A-S:

Ða se ellengæst earfodhlice
Þrage geÞolode se the in Þystrum bad,
thæt he dogora gehwam dream gehyrde
hludne in healle thær wæs hearpan sweg,

(Beowulf was a charter member of the VRWC; Hillary is a direct descendant of Grendel's mother.)

:)

ndebord
April 6th, 2007, 11:58 PM
Sounds like my kinda woman. :)

(I didn't take Anglo-Saxon or Middle English until my sophomore year in college, but I did have four years of Latin in high school.)

You couldn't have, Nick. Chaucer wrote in Middle English.

"Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote
The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote..."

That was about 400 years later than A-S:

Ða se ellengæst earfodhlice
Þrage geÞolode se the in Þystrum bad,
thæt he dogora gehwam dream gehyrde
hludne in healle thær wæs hearpan sweg,

(Beowulf was a charter member of the VRWC; Hillary is a direct descendant of Grendel's mother.)

:)

Ralph,

Late to the conversation, as always, and talking not to me, as it was not I who took courses in whatever language we are discussing here in College. I sat at my Gram's feet and learned what she drilled into my head and then used it to help my stuttering in my speech class in high school.

As I've said, it was my Gram who said it was Anglo-Saxon I was learning and I respect my Gram above all others. But then I said that before and you need to learn to read a thread properly.

And still when I see the words, I can recite them as if that speech was yesterday, not over 40 years ago now.