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Judy G. Russell
February 20th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Tony Blair said today that he's giving the orders to bring large numbers of British troops home from Iraq this year. Sigh...

Lindsey
February 20th, 2007, 10:17 PM
Tony Blair said today that he's giving the orders to bring large numbers of British troops home from Iraq this year. Sigh...
One of the cable shows (I think it was someone on Scarborough Country) said, "Even the guy that the Brits call Bush's lapdog is abandoning him," and it made me wonder how much longer it would be before Barney turned on him, too.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 21st, 2007, 04:38 PM
One of the cable shows (I think it was someone on Scarborough Country) said, "Even the guy that the Brits call Bush's lapdog is abandoning him,"What blows me away is that nobody in the Administration has said one word about the fact that we are sending more troops TO Iraq, but the Brits are pulling troops out that are already there (and, presumably, could be shifted to, say, Baghdad...).

Lindsey
February 21st, 2007, 10:42 PM
What blows me away is that nobody in the Administration has said one word about the fact that we are sending more troops TO Iraq, but the Brits are pulling troops out that are already there (and, presumably, could be shifted to, say, Baghdad...).
Oh, hey, Condozeezza Rice and Dick Cheney have both stepped up to say this is proof that the plan is working. :rolleyes: Condi looked like she was having trouble remembering which talking point she was supposed to be pushing, though. In the clip that I saw, there were several times that I swear I think she was just about to say that the departure of the British was in implementation of the plan to stand down as the Iraqis stood up. And then she'd be left stammering as she remembered, "Ooops, no, that was last year's plan."

One analyst last night said he thought the Brits had decided to accelerate their withdrawal plans so that they could get a sizable portion of their troops out before the surge plan failed, because they wouldn't decently be able to begin a withdrawal after it became clear Bush's plan was failing.

This is not a surge; it's a desperate attempt to pump air into a badly leaking tire.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 21st, 2007, 11:44 PM
What blows me away is that nobody in the Administration has said one word about the fact that we are sending more troops TO Iraq, but the Brits are pulling troops out that are already there (and, presumably, could be shifted to, say, Baghdad...).
By the way, one of the comments I saw on Salon.com in response to a story about this, titled something like "Surging troops to the Brits": "Hello, hello! I don't know why you say good-bye, I say hello!"

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 22nd, 2007, 08:10 AM
One analyst last night said he thought the Brits had decided to accelerate their withdrawal plans so that they could get a sizable portion of their troops out before the surge plan failed, because they wouldn't decently be able to begin a withdrawal after it became clear Bush's plan was failing.Just proves they're smarter than we are: they didn't send as many troops in the first place, took a part of the country that was relatively singular in terms of ethnic and religious base, and are getting out ASAP.

lensue
February 22nd, 2007, 09:28 AM
>and are getting out ASAP<

Judy, would that stand for as SUNNI as possible? [r,d,g]

Judy G. Russell
February 22nd, 2007, 02:57 PM
would [ASAP] stand for as SUNNI as possible? [r,d,g]Not in their area. For them, it's be as SHIITE as possible!

Judy G. Russell
February 22nd, 2007, 03:00 PM
By the way, one of the comments I saw on Salon.com in response to a story about this, titled something like "Surging troops to the Brits": "Hello, hello! I don't know why you say good-bye, I say hello!"Groan... I'm now going to have that song in my head for the rest of the day...

lensue
February 22nd, 2007, 04:37 PM
>Not in their area. For them, it's be as SHIITE as possible!<

Judy, yeah, I admit IRAN a little wild with that last one! [g]

Lindsey
February 22nd, 2007, 10:13 PM
Just proves they're smarter than we are: they didn't send as many troops in the first place, took a part of the country that was relatively singular in terms of ethnic and religious base, and are getting out ASAP.
I think the analyst I had mentioned before was Howard Fineman of Newsweek. Someone else last night (I should make a note of who these people are, except that I'm usually doing something else while the television is on) said that another reason the British were not joining the Americans in Baghdad is that they were not impressed with the performance of the US troops, and didn't want any part of working that closely with them.

Our armed forces are being wrecked in more ways than one.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 22nd, 2007, 10:15 PM
Groan... I'm now going to have that song in my head for the rest of the day...
Hey, how bad can a Beatles tune be? I mean, it could have been MacArthur Park...

--Lindsey

Dan in Saint Louis
February 23rd, 2007, 12:15 PM
Judy, yeah, I admit IRAN a little wild with that last one! [g]IRAQued my brain for a snappy comeback, but cannot find one.

lensue
February 23rd, 2007, 12:25 PM
>IRAQued my brain for a snappy comeback, but cannot find one.<

Dan, LOL--so UR in the same boat as me then!

ndebord
February 23rd, 2007, 06:58 PM
Tony Blair said today that he's giving the orders to bring large numbers of British troops home from Iraq this year. Sigh...


Judy,

While the Brits are starting to come home, the Aussies are staying put (for now). As we go further into this "long war," our policy missteps are magnified as we find ourselves fighting both Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq (forget about the Turkomen and Kurds for now, and all the other splinter groups floating around) and supporting the Shiites overall even though they are in part proxy for Iranian revolutionaries. SIGH.

Can't remember which Brit historian wrote this, but his premise is that we are now in the 4th World War. Prussian militarnism in WWI, Axis Fascism in WWII, Soviet Fascism in WWIII (otherwise known as the Cold War), and Islamic Fascism in WWIV...our self-designated "long war."

By focusing on Iraq, GWB or Dickie boy (Cheney) looked not at the main foe, Al Qaeda, but at a side issue, turning it into a major issue, while decimating our military capability. As we speak, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are reoccupying large segments of Afghanistan (in the east and west) and expanding inside Pakistan's NorthWest Territory where they are replacing the local mullahs and tribal leaders the old-fashioned way: assasination. Every Spring, the terrorist offensive is stronger than the year before and by some estimates, the "Jihad" in Iraq has increased Al Qaeda recruitment fourfold.

And now we hear that Dickie Boy and his little dog too (GWB), are really, really planning to do something in Iran.

I'm moving to NZ, as some here have suggested as the only prudent course.

Judy G. Russell
February 23rd, 2007, 08:04 PM
By focusing on Iraq, GWB or Dickie boy (Cheney) looked not at the main foe, Al Qaeda, but at a side issue, turning it into a major issue, while decimating our military capability. As we speak, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are reoccupying large segments of Afghanistan (in the east and west) and expanding inside Pakistan's NorthWest Territory where they are replacing the local mullahs and tribal leaders the old-fashioned way: assasination. Every Spring, the terrorist offensive is stronger than the year before and by some estimates, the "Jihad" in Iraq has increased Al Qaeda recruitment fourfold.And, I might add, as every single one of us should be adding, especially but not only those of us in the NY area... Osama bin Laden is still out there.

Lindsey
February 23rd, 2007, 09:55 PM
Osama bin Laden is still out there.
And the word is that his allies in the Taliban are planning a major spring offensive in Afghanistan.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 24th, 2007, 09:53 PM
And the word is that his allies in the Taliban are planning a major spring offensive in Afghanistan.Oh but hey... doncha know... fighting them there means we don't have to fight them here! Sigh...

Lindsey
February 25th, 2007, 11:20 PM
Oh but hey... doncha know... fighting them there means we don't have to fight them here! Sigh...
Yeah, that one holds about as much water as "We will be greeted as liberators," or "The insurgency is in its last throes."

--Lindsey

lensue
February 26th, 2007, 12:21 AM
>"We will be greeted as liberators," <

Lindsey, did you see last week's 60 Minutes segment on Kurdistan--they loved what we did in Iraq over there--the head of the government couldn't say enough good things about us. They'd like to be completely independent from Iraq and get away from both Shiites and Sunnis but Turkey wouldn't much like that.

Judy G. Russell
February 26th, 2007, 12:36 AM
The Kurds are the only people who think we're not complete idiots, and they don't want anything to do with our plan for a continued united Iraq. Plus if we support what they want, we annoy Turkey (to put it mildly). We could have done almost as well with the Kurds if we had simply maintained the northern no-fly zone. Not to mention the fact that one of the reasons they like us is we let them run the Sunni Arabs out of the area they want to control.

lensue
February 26th, 2007, 08:29 AM
>they don't want anything to do with our plan for a continued united Iraq. Plus if we support what they want, we annoy Turkey (to put it mildly). <

Judy, yes, I think the show did a good job of pointing that out--very interesting.

Lindsey
February 26th, 2007, 11:52 PM
No, I never see 60 Minutes -- I have a Sunday choral rehearsal during the time it is on. But actually, somewhere I read that even the Kurds want the US out of Iraq, possibly because we are now seen as obstacles to their plans to become an independent enclave.

The only way that the Kurds can be completely independent of Iraq is to control the oil in Kirkuk, and that's going to entail one bloody fight with the Shiites. For the Kurds to have complete control of Kirkuk leaves the Shiites without any share of Iraq's most valuable natural resource, and I don't think that's something they are going to accept quietly.

Not to mention that, as Judy said, an independent Kurdistan would be anathema to Turkey, who is supposed to be our ally. And not only to Turkey, but to the other countries in the area with substantial Kurdish populations, namely Iran and Syria. They're not likely to sit back and allow an independent Kurdish nation on their doorstep that is going to spur separatist activity among their own Kurds.

--Lindsey

ndebord
February 27th, 2007, 08:33 AM
No, I never see 60 Minutes -- I have a Sunday choral rehearsal during the time it is on. But actually, somewhere I read that even the Kurds want the US out of Iraq, possibly because we are now seen as obstacles to their plans to become an independent enclave.

The only way that the Kurds can be completely independent of Iraq is to control the oil in Kirkuk, and that's going to entail one bloody fight with the Shiites. For the Kurds to have complete control of Kirkuk leaves the Shiites without any share of Iraq's most valuable natural resource, and I don't think that's something they are going to accept quietly.

Not to mention that, as Judy said, an independent Kurdistan would be anathema to Turkey, who is supposed to be our ally. And not only to Turkey, but to the other countries in the area with substantial Kurdish populations, namely Iran and Syria. They're not likely to sit back and allow an independent Kurdish nation on their doorstep that is going to spur separatist activity among their own Kurds.

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

Not exactly so. I suspect you meant that the Sunnis won't have any oil if Kirkuk goes to the Kurds. The Shiites will still have all the oil in the south of Iraq.

It is not clear who will win Kirkuk, as the Turks, Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites all claim it.

lensue
February 27th, 2007, 10:23 AM
>No, I never see 60 Minutes -- I have a Sunday choral rehearsal during the time it is on.<

Lindsey, why not get a VCR--then you could watch 60 Minutes at your leisure and fast forward those darn commercials! I allow 2 hours for the taping since CBS often doesn't start 60 Minutes at exactly 7:00 due to extended sports events.

Lindsey
February 27th, 2007, 10:55 PM
I suspect you meant that the Sunnis won't have any oil if Kirkuk goes to the Kurds.
You're right, yes, I did mean the Sunnis. Sorry, it's been a hard week -- and it's only Tuesday!

(We have three teams of auditors descending on us starting next week...)

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 27th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Lindsey, why not get a VCR--then you could watch 60 Minutes at your leisure and fast forward those darn commercials!
Because I never have time to sit down and watch the stuff I've taped.

--Lindsey

ndebord
February 27th, 2007, 11:50 PM
You're right, yes, I did mean the Sunnis. Sorry, it's been a hard week -- and it's only Tuesday!

(We have three teams of auditors descending on us starting next week...)

--Lindsey



Lindsey,

Ouch. And double ouch. If only you were better connected, you could offer them an oil well or two.

;-)

lensue
February 28th, 2007, 10:10 AM
>Because I never have time to sit down and watch the stuff I've taped<

Lindsey, I know what you mean--I've accumualted quite a backlog of tapes--even though I'm a gardener and miss it if it weren't for couch potato winters I'd never get any VCR viewing in! [g] Talk about gardening we'll be going to the Philadelphia Flower show Monday and then we'll hit Washington DC for several days--a show I had taped a while back on great American Museums and just watched a short time ago made me feel guilty it had been so long since we've been to some of Washington's great ones!

Lindsey
February 28th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Talk about gardening we'll be going to the Philadelphia Flower show Monday and then we'll hit Washington DC for several days
Have a great trip!

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 28th, 2007, 09:06 PM
we'll be going to the Philadelphia Flower show Monday and then we'll hit Washington DC for several days
Sigh... I would love to go to the flower show. Just can't free the time out of my schedule right now, darn it.

lensue
March 1st, 2007, 11:15 AM
>Have a great trip!<

Lindsey, thanks, it's been so long since we checked out areas of Washington--we want to explore Dupont Circle--do you have any recommendations.

lensue
March 1st, 2007, 11:17 AM
Judy, I'' post some photos when we return--the theme this year is
legends of Ireland.

Lindsey
March 1st, 2007, 06:56 PM
Lindsey, thanks, it's been so long since we checked out areas of Washington--we want to explore Dupont Circle--do you have any recommendations.
Me? No -- I rarely get into Washington itself, and lately, I haven't wandered any farther than the block or so from the Capitol South Metro station that it takes to get to the Library of Congress.

Hmmm, but a couple of years ago, I went in on a Sunday to see the Gilbert Stuart exhibit, and had the Sunday Jazz Brunch in -- I think it was the Terrace Cafe there. Quite nice!

Check out their web site (http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/index.shtm) -- there's an exhibit of Rembrandt prints and drawings that will be running through March 18, if you're interested. (I'm trying to remember where I saw a similar exhibit some years ago; I think it might have been on a trip to England. Wherever it was, it was a fantastic exhibit.) And they have several cafes, depending on just what you want to eat and when.

I'm sure DC doesn't lack for good places to eat, though -- too much money being thrown around that city not to be able to support a lot of good restaurants. You might find some tips on the DC/Baltimore message board on chowhound.com (http://www.chowhound.com/boards/14).

If you haven't been to the Holocaust Museum (http://www.ushmm.org/), you might want to consider that. It's a powerful experience.

And since you and Sue enjoy gardens, you might want to visit the National Arboretum (http://www.usna.usda.gov/Information/arbormap.html) as well.

And if you're interested in historic sites on the Virginia side of the Potomac, you might want to visit Mount Vernon (http://www.mountvernon.org/) and/or Gunston Hall (http://www.gunstonhall.org/). Mount Vernon might be crowded, especially since this year is the 275th anniversary of Washington's birth. The Gunston Hall web site says the garden there is in a 'transitional state" -- they're apperantly in the process of restoring it to what it would have been like in George Mason's day -- but that in itself might be interesting to observe.

Hah! I guess I had more to say about DC than I thought!

--Lindsey

lensue
March 1st, 2007, 07:46 PM
>I guess I had more to say about DC than I thought!<

Lindsey, thanks--we have a Zagat guide for restaurants, want to see what's new at Dupont Circle and we're going to use metrorail from our motel in Rockville--why Rockville--the price was right! [g]

Judy G. Russell
March 1st, 2007, 11:23 PM
Judy, I'' post some photos when we return--the theme this year is legends of Ireland.Sigh... maybe I can sneak away next weekend...

lensue
March 2nd, 2007, 10:53 PM
>maybe I can sneak away next weekend...<

Judy, the weekends are the most crowded--still if that's your only chance you should go for it--it's considered the best in the country!

Lindsey
March 2nd, 2007, 11:08 PM
Lindsey, thanks--we have a Zagat guide for restaurants, want to see what's new at Dupont Circle and we're going to use metrorail from our motel in Rockville--why Rockville--the price was right! [g]
Yeah, I use Zagat, too, but I've gotten some really good tips from the Chowhound boards. Chowhound likes to say that they go where Zagat fears to tread. ;) And they're free -- you don't have to buy a book! Still, Zagat gives you a lot of good information, too, and you're not going to go far wrong with them.

Staying outside of DC is an excellent plan, especially if you can get Metro connections from there. You get the best of both worlds!

Hope you have a great trip!

--Lindsey

lensue
March 3rd, 2007, 08:22 AM
>I've gotten some really good tips from the Chowhound boards<

Lindsey, yes, I use the Chowhound from time to time--it's very nice. I like to have a book with me though and the breakdowns for type of food, rating, neighborhood, etc is very helpful. Someone in the opera forum knows the founder of ChowHound Jim Leff and one time Jim came into our forum and I was kidding around with him--I told him that if he would pay for the restaurants I'd check some out for him in western NJ--he said that would be okay if I offered to pay for Metropolitan Opera tickets so he could check those out for me! [g]

Judy G. Russell
March 3rd, 2007, 08:29 PM
the weekends are the most crowded--still if that's your only chance you should go for it--it's considered the best in the country!It'll have to wait til next year. Something has come up that I'm going to have to spend serious time on this week.

Lindsey
March 5th, 2007, 10:29 PM
Someone in the opera forum knows the founder of ChowHound Jim Leff and one time Jim came into our forum and I was kidding around with him--I told him that if he would pay for the restaurants I'd check some out for him in western NJ--he said that would be okay if I offered to pay for Metropolitan Opera tickets so he could check those out for me! [g]
LOL!! There was a writeup about chowhound.com in the New Yorker several years ago -- that's where I found out about it. Not long after that, I was on a business trip in New Orleans, and got some really good pointers on places to eat that were not the normal tourist venues, where the lines -- even in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 -- were out the door. I wonder how many of those places are still there. Possibly none of them. :(

--Lindsey