Not even TAPCIS, but CS4.0.2

[heinz57g]

this is just great: i have to use the TAPCIS forum to write about CS402!

i have been using CS402 since whenever as a backup for accessing my classic mail, or
whenever interactive access was needed (billing etc).

there was always the normal CIS home screen, with news and adverts etc etc, from there
into mail went fine.

since a few days that home screen has vanished, all i am getting is ...

-- Authentication Failure
--
-- Your cookies are invalid, or Your User ID and Password were not recognized.
-- Please try again.
--
-- If the problem persists contact Customer Service for assistance

same on four different computers, so it cannot be the computer itself and/or cookies, ID or PW.

i can still access my mail from there, so ID and password must be fine - but really only
the mail, nothing else.

before posting this here, tried both thru CS402 and the browser to post a mssg in the
CLASSIC SUPPORT forum. now the strangest: when i try to log in there, i get, even in the
browser, the very same error mssg as above!

once again, a totally baffled - heinz -

PS: an ever-so-possible-or-not idea: all computers were recently update with very latest security
updates of WIN XP - can this disturb the login with CIS? when for example in the CLASSIC SUPPORT
FORUM, i can see mssgs, but not log in and write. i can also not for example click on a name of a
user and see his details (wanted to write gary for example a mail), up pops a screen with a cryptic
numerical error remark.

[Peter Creasey]

PS: an ever-so-possible-or-not idea: all computers were recently update with very latest security
updates of WIN XP - can this disturb the login with CIS?

Heinz, Bingo!!!

Disable the firewall and you'll probably be fine. If so, then adjust the firewall settings when you turn it back on.

[davidh]

Heinz, Bingo!!!

Disable the firewall and you'll probably be fine. If so, then adjust the firewall settings when you turn it back on.

I don't have CIS account anymore. But I wonder if MS ever fixed that bug they introduced into login scripting in DUN during the fall of 2006, and whether that's related to this problem?

DH

[davidh]

I just realized that if Heinz is accessing CIS via another ISP, then CS4 would be going thru TCP/IP Winsock by TELNET on port 4144.

This could be experimented with by trying to run MS TELNET.EXE and logging into CIS manually on port 4144 (or 23 works now too, last time I tried).

Maybe the firewall IS cranky about TELNET on port 4144 ?

DH

[heinz57g]

>> Heinz, Bingo!!! Disable the firewall and you'll probably be fine

certainly worth a try, tks. but what i will do first: find some of my old laptops that have not been updated, or still run (very
nicely) WIN98, and see how they behave.

actually a clever move by CIS, taking it this way: not being able to go interactive or to any GO instructions makes you
stay with them forever - no way to look at accounting, no change of tariff - and no cancelations ever. ever again.

>> CIS via another ISP ... CS4 ...thru TCP/IP Winsock ... TELNET on ... port 4144 ... MS TELNET.EXE ... into CIS
>> manually ... port 4144 ... or 23 ... firewall IS cranky ... TELNET ... port 4144 ?

dave, tks for lifting my spirit, your words will now be in my dreams too ... i always thought my english was at least reasonable.
should have known better.

greetings - heinz -

[Gary Maltzen]

I wonder if MS ever fixed that bug they introduced into login scripting in DUN during the fall of 2006Yes, they corrected the fix and re-issued it with the same number so all you have to do is remove the fix then reinstall it. Heinz' problem appears to be elsewhere.

[Gary Maltzen]

-- Your cookies are invalid, or Your User ID and Password were not recognized.
-- Please try again.Are you saying that you get this error when you attempt to log on with CS402?

Please try the TELNET login to see if that still works for you...telnet gateway.compuserve.com(Note: port 4144 does not work for telnet)

[heinz57g]

gary, tks for looking in here too.

i get this report instead of the main page (homepage ?) after login - the login though
must work somehow, because i can go to the mail page and read my mails.

and, when i try to log into the forum (no CS402 involved at all, just the browser), i get
the very same error.

where is the connection between CS402 logon and browser logon, one generally to CIS,
one just to the forum?

greetings - heinz -

[Gary Maltzen]

Heinz,

It sounds like you use a broadband (DSL, cable) connection to the Internet; is that correct?

Are you using Internet Explorer as your web browser? If so, which version?

[heinz57g]

gary, yes and yes, basically. DSL and IE6, fully updated (not IE7 for sev reasons).

can we initially concentrate of the logon problem for the CLASSIC support forum?
as the error page is exactly the same as with CS402. there must be an immediate
connection. once we solve one, i assume (always the optimist) the other is solved too.

ok, here we go:

- using IE6, error page as indicated, plain black on white.
no firewall turned on, no virus checker, nothing of that
sort (for the time of the trials) - no way to log on.

- FIREFOX 2.01, logon automatic, i assume thru a cookie
saved long time ago. can read and write etc.

- OPERA 9.10, at least no error code, but does not accept
what i think is the correct password (it HAS been a
long time). on the page with personal details, there is
no way to either see or renew the logon password, right?

on all three, i tried the PASSWORD recovery system, and it works to the point of
telling me i will get an email, but nothing comes, ever. first tries were hours ago.

hope all this is clear enough.

greetings - heinz -

PS: peter, firewall removed, no change
david and gary, telnet lets me log in ok, up to the point where it tells me (on a DOS screen, how
refreshing) i am using an old version OLR, and have to switch to HMI etc etc - but the basic
login and password are ok.

[davidh]

dave, tks for lifting my spirit, your words will now be in my dreams too ... i always thought my english was at least reasonable.
should have known better.

How to say nightmare in German ? ;)

I think I would rather dream about drinking a bottle of LiebFrauMilch.

DH

[davidh]

Heinz, if you seriously want to access the Classic Support forum you might also want to get a free screenname for AOL and/or AIM and/or Netscape. For example, if you go to aim.com there is a link called "get a screen name". I think you can get a free screen name WITHOUT downloading any software at all. With such a free screen name you should be able to access the Classic Support forum with almost any browser over your broadband ISP connection.

A free email account also comes with any free screenname but you don't have to use the email account at all. And as I said, you should NOT need any additional software at all. However, the AIM (AOL Instant Messenger) program is reasonably good for Instant Messaging and computer to computer long distance voice talk. You can also get a free Internet telephone number for people to call you at. You need to have somebody call you on that number at least a few times a month to keep the free account (probably supported by ads displayed on your PC). However a word of warning: I tried it (aimphone) and signing up for it messed up my old free AIM account so that I could no longer post messages on the Compuserve (Prospero) web view forums. So that I now have to use my alternate AIM account to post to the Compuserve forums. The aimphone service may not be available in Europe anyway. I think part of the problem with my original AIM ID not being able to post in the forums in my case might be related to the fact that I signed up for it long ago when AOL first bought CIS and there is some as yet unresolved glitch on the server side with my old free AIM (CSIM) ID (not worth fixing since accounts are free and AOL hardly cares about the old folks , former Classic, anymore).

Anyway with a fresh new free AIM ID you should be able to access the CS forums ok, if you are so inclined.

DH

[davidh]

I have no reason to believe that there would be a relationship between a problem with a Classic login to a web view (propero/netscape/compuserve) forum and a problem with a (AIM) screenname login to a web view (prospero/netscape/compuserve) forum. But just in case there IS a relationship, I'd like to mention the following.

My old screenname [ free AIM (a.k.a. CompuServe Instant Messenger CSIM) screenname ] can't log in to the web view forums EXCEPT for the remaining public HMI forum, namely http://go.compuserve.com/catholiconline. This forum server side software WORKS but there is ZERO activity in that forum.

From the fact that my old non-Classic screenname can login to that forum but NOT to the prospero style web view forums (e.g. Classic support), I conclude that something is messed up on the server side (prospero/netscape/compuserve). Going on that hypothesis it seems within the realm of possibility that there could also be something messed up with Classic (numeric) ID's logging into prospero style web view forums such as Classic support. If this theory proves to be the case for a classic login such as for Heinz then maybe the hopes of a quick cure are quite low.

DH

[Lindsey]

Going on that hypothesis it seems within the realm of possibility that there could also be something messed up with Classic (numeric) ID's logging into prospero style web view forums such as Classic support.
Nope. I do it all the time. And so do any number of other people.

--Lindsey

[Gary Maltzen]

I don't want to deal with five different approaches at once so we will concentrate on IE6
- using IE6, error page as indicated, plain black on white. no firewall turned on, no virus checker, nothing of that sort (for the time of the trials) - no way to log on.Start by clearing all compuserve.com, netscape.com and aol.com stored cookies. If in doubt, clear ALL cookies then attempt to log onto the forums.

[heinz57g]

but david, i HAVE a screen name/PW for that CLASSIC SUPPORT FORUM - how else
would i, see above details, have logged in (and written dozends of mssgs) past year?
and using FIREFOX, i still can log in without problem.

only using IE6 i get that white screen error mssg immdtly when i click the login button.

without, and this is important, even asking for name and password!

and as this screen (how can i post a screenshot here?) is the EXACT one as appearing
when trying to use CS402, thats where i see the connection.

on the LiebFrauenMilch you are right, will try that tonight.

greetings - heinz -

[heinz57g]

gary, all cookies cleared, same effect: the moment i click the LOGIN button, the error screen,
and as pointed out above, without ever asking for name/PW at all.

as i said, using FIREFOX i login automatically (those cookies were NOT cleared). would you
see a way to find my password there on any of the PERSONAL pages (was it called MY STUFF?).

or find out why the password recovery system does not work?

greetings - heinz -

[davidh]

Nope. I do it all the time. And so do any number of other people.

--Lindsey
I have two AIM ID's.

The old one from when AOL bought CIS actually logs in to Prospero forums , BUT acts as if I'm NOT logged in, i.e. I can't post.

My newer AIM ID logs in FINE ALWAYS *AND* I can post as normal.

Go figure.

So the problem with the old AIM ID is a little bit like Heinz problem, i.e. login seems to work but then get some kind of error whatever it might be.

I can't test anything with a classic numeric ID since I dropped mine in 2005. But I'm sure that Classic ID's can log in fine as yours does. But just as there is an exception with one of my screenames, there might be exceptions with some Classic numeric ID's.

AND the quirky old AIM ID of mine still works fine in all other AOL / AIM services, just not Prospero (so far).

DH

[davidh]

but david, i HAVE a screen name/PW for that CLASSIC SUPPORT FORUM - how else
would i, see above details, have logged in (and written dozends of mssgs) past year?
and using FIREFOX, i still can log in without problem.

only using IE6 i get that white screen error mssg immdtly when i click the login button.

without, and this is important, even asking for name and password!

and as this screen (how can i post a screenshot here?) is the EXACT one as appearing
when trying to use CS402, thats where i see the connection.

on the LiebFrauenMilch you are right, will try that tonight.

greetings - heinz -

I see that it is an important distinction you are making, namely that the error appears BEFORE actually typing in the ID and PW.

I was using the the word "screenname" in perhaps a more technical sense. Namely, in the technical sense, a screenname would be an ID with which one can login at http://my.screenname.aol.com I'm not sure that Classic (numeric) ID's can login at that URL even though they can/could login at other (Compuserve) URL (web addresses).

I have only glanced at Gary's recent message but I saw something about cookies in it, and I have an inkling from that that cookies could be a problem, because I've often had problems with login to Compuserve in years past which problems involved such things as cookies and virtual key, etc.

Cheers with the wine, too.

DH

[davidh]

Actually it was even weirder than that. I signed up for a free phone number (aimphoneline) and AOL forced me to change my password AND also pretended (I forget the details) that it had added a numeral 1 at the end of my screenname.

Long story.

Conclusion: AOL is so messed up that I'm not even going to try to ask anybody to help me fix the problem. Just use a different ID to post in Prospero/CS.

As I said, besides Prospero, BOTH my ID's work fine for AOL mail and AOL IM, etc.

Situation Normal All *&%^ Up

DH

[davidh]

Actually the free phone number seemed pretty decent, voice mail too that can be read by AIM program or via web or via IMAP email such as Thunderbird. Just didn't use it enuf to keep acct. going.

DH

[Gary Maltzen]

gary, all cookies cleared, same effect: the moment i click the LOGIN button, the error screen, and as pointed out above, without ever asking for name/PW at all.Hmm -- do you have Virtual Key installed?
If so and provided you know your Classic login password (typically two words separated by special character) try clearing all sites from Virtual Key.

[heinz57g]

gary, sure i remember my char/sign/char password, it also shows up on the setup page of CS402 (being
read with a PW prog).

but why would my CIS password in any way effect my logon to the forum? that is done (or better cannot
be done) on IE6 computers that have never seen VK or CS402.

virtual key on the other ones, yes. but actually used it xxx years ago (it feels like triple digit), so can you pls
hold my hand a bit how to clear sites from it? i do not remember even opening VK by itself, ever, after installing it.

greetings - heinz -

[Lindsey]

But just as there is an exception with one of my screenames, there might be exceptions with some Classic numeric ID's.
No, I would anticipate that the forum software would use the same routines for all Classic IDs. When someone has problems with one of them, it's almost certainly with something external to the login routine itself -- usually either a problem with the underlying account (like an expired credit card) or the presence of cookies that are confusing things.

I can't tell you much about your AIM problem, but you might try clearing the cookies, as Gary suggested to Heinz.

Post hoc: No, scratch that last. You seem to be saying in a subsequent message that your troubles with the AIM screen name began after you signed up for phone service in conjunction with it. I'm not even going to try to guess how that affects the AIM login.

--Lindsey

[davidh]

Heinz,

I haven't been following the thread in complete detail. So the following remarks may or may not be relevant.

1. Your browser should be able to view all of these addresses without problems:
http://www.aol.com
http://www.compuserve.com
http://isp.netscape.com
http://www.cs.com
http://www.prospero.com
If any one of those gives problems then it could also affect your access to CS forums.

2. Try going in to the CS forums via http://community.netscape.com instead of whatever other different http address you might be using now and then navigate to the forum you desire by clicking its link on that page, as opposed to entering the URL http address of the forum directly into the browser address bar.

3. I assume that in addition to already having cleared all cookies, you have cookies fully enabled and therefore have no sites whose cookies are set to be blocked by your browser.

4. If you are using MS IE, then security on your Internet Zone is set to "medium" , not high. (Actually I keep mine set to high, even tho' it often annoys me. I'm semi-paranoid about security.)

As I indicated, it's not likely that these issues would affect you, but anyone of them could be a "show stopper", if actually present.

DH

[davidh]

Oops, sorry. You can't get to Classic Support by http://community.netscape.com , BUT you should be able to get to other forums such as the other tech ones and lifestyle, etc. just to find out whether your browser can access (and post?) to any forum at all (e.g. german section of news forum if it still exists).

DH

[heinz57g]

david, am not sure if we are drifting into a totally different direction: all those pages you
mentioned work fine, but what was the point anyhow?

also '' ... Oops, sorry. You can't get to Classic Support by http://community.netscape.com ... ''
is wrong; at least in a roundabout way i can: go to the menue on the left COMPUSERVE
HELP COMMUNITY, then middle right (NUMBER, PLEASE) brings you to the classic forum and its
login, and then click login, and whooops, i am back where we started, the white error screen.

not sure thats what you wanted to say ...

greetings - heinz -

[Gary Maltzen]

...virtual key on the other ones, yes. but actually used it xxx years ago (it feels like triple digit), so can you pls hold my hand a bit how to clear sites from it? i do not remember even opening VK by itself, ever, after installing it.From the Programs menu drill down to Virtual Key and open it then select the "Sites" tab and remove all existing sites. That should cause VK to open a dialog the next time you visit a secured page.

[Gary Maltzen]

Heinz,

Let me make certain I know what is happening...

Try to log on in Classic Support using this link
http://community.compuserve.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=cs-software&nav=myforums

[davidh]

david, am not sure if we are drifting into a totally different direction: all those pages you
mentioned work fine, but what was the point anyhow?


When one logs into Compuserve forums and reads and/or posts it involves cookies *and* scripts from a number of different domains such as the ones I listed. If somehow the network either in your computer or elsewhere had a problem accessing any one of those sites then one would expect various errors which may or may not be obvious or subtle, etc. perhaps such as you might be experiencing?

In the past I have always accessed Classic support forum (for old times sake even tho' I don't have an account) via community.compuserve.com instead of community.netscape.com since as I recall the Compuserve support forums used to be only listed in the regular list of forums in the former but not the latter. Anyway, the suggestion was a "long shot", not likely to help much, as I had mentioned.

I would tend to doubt that AOL is investing significant resources to making sure the Classic compuserve network is working well for North American users, let alone European users. Regular AOL accounts with unlimited dial up are now only $9.95 I think and if you access AOL services by another ISP (e.g. broadband) then you can get almost all AOL services for free. They have changed their business model to rely in future on ads instead of subscriptions. So if your problem turns out to be something on the server (AOL/Netscape/Compuserve) side as opposed to your computer and your broadband ISP provider, then the hope of a quick fix may not be soon fulfilled.

DH

P.S.
As I mentioned earlier you might consider signing up for a free throwaway AOL/AIM account just to see if you could use it to post questions in the Classic support forum. If you could actually get in to post a question there with a free throwaway AOL/AIM account it would indicate that whatever is messed up (either in your computer, or in your broadband ISP, or in AOL/Netscape/Compuserve/Prospero) has something specifically to do with your Classic account (even tho' straightforward thinking would say that this should NOT be so). It is not necessary to download software or install anything or change your computer in any way to get such a free throwaway (non-Classic screenname) account.

If you really seriously need to do something at GO BILLING you might be able to do it by going in thru dial up. You may or may not have to configure CS 4.0.2 NOT to use Winsock. I forget the details how to do this since I have not used CS2, CS3, or CS4 for years.

You might even be able to type GO BILLING if you log in to CIS via TELNET on port 23 or port 4144 i.e. TELNET to gateway.compuserve.com. However, if that TELNET does work, you may only be able to print out information but not actually change your billing plan, etc. I don't remember how the ASCII (teletype) interface to GO BILLING worked in detail. But I think there are still a couple things (such as GO BILLING) you can still do on CIS with only a teletype or dumb terminal (which is similar to TELNET). Be warned that you should end your session with the command OFF or BYE if you use TELNET to make sure the length of your session is clocked correctly for accurate billing of minutes. I believe that minutes are NOT billed while you are actually "inside" the GO BILLING area of CIS.

I believe that one can also type "GO BILLING" in the interactive (non OLR, non batch) mode of TAPCIS.

DH

[heinz57g]

gary, you hit on a new one:

>> Try to log on in Classic Support using this link
>> http://community.compuserve.com/n/p...re&nav=myforums

gives the following error page (plain black on white):

>> This area can not be accessed by your account.
>>
>> This usually happens because:
>> Membership or Special permissions are required.
>> Availability is limited by geographic region.
>> If you believe that your account should be able to access this area,
>> please contact Customer Service to report the problem.
>>
>> If you would like to make another selection, click on your browser's
>> back button to return to the previous page.

from the frying pan into the fire?

greetings - heinz -

AND: on the computer where all this happens VIRTUAL KEY seems to be not installed at all.
the are still some LINK files refering to it, but they lead to nothing, and there is no VK in any
prog folder. over the years it must have vanished (and not be needed anymore) during an
update / upgrade or whatever. hope this does not confuse the issue.

[davidh]

gary, you hit on a new one:

>> Try to log on in Classic Support using this link
>> http://community.compuserve.com/n/p...re&nav=myforums

gives the following error page (plain black on white):

>> This area can not be accessed by your account.
>>
>> This usually happens because:
>> Membership or Special permissions are required.
>> Availability is limited by geographic region.
>> If you believe that your account should be able to access this area,
>> please contact Customer Service to report the problem.
>>
>> If you would like to make another selection, click on your browser's
>> back button to return to the previous page.

from the frying pan into the fire?

greetings - heinz -

Heinz,

Your message is threaded to one msg from me but I think you intended to reply to Gary's msg about clearing out Virtual Key.

I think the hope was that after clearing out sites/accounts? in Virtual Key, it would prompt you to re-enter your password after having cleared out all the sites or whatever in VK. Apparently this did not happen.

I hope Gary or somebody else will be able to help you because I uninstalled VK years ago and have not used it since.

FYI, I think there is no longer any reason or advantage to use VK because the SSL (Secure Sockets Layer encryption) now used during your login to Compuserve via the web browser (when VK is not used) is more or less equivalent in security to VK (i.e. encrypting your password in transit so it can't be stolen). VK only works with Internet Explorer (or obsolete versions of Netscape). So VK would NOT have any relation to login if you happen to use Firefox, Mozilla, Opera, etc. to access CS forums. If the problem is 100% confined to Virtual Key, then you "should" be able to login and post to CS forums with non-InternetExplorer browsers. As I said, I haven't used VK for years so if you try to fix it or uninstall it you should get advice from somebody else, I think.

DH

[Lindsey]

Oops, sorry. You can't get to Classic Support by http://community.netscape.com
Not only that, but it completely fouls the cookie situation and prevents you from being able to do a Classic login.

David, I know you're trying to help, but help coming from two different directions is only going to confuse things. Gary is one of the Classic Help sysops; let him troubleshoot the situation -- I'm sure he can get Heinz squared away.

--Lindsey

[heinz57g]

david,

>> Your message is threaded to one msg from me but I think you intended to reply to Gary's msg

i am on linear mode, as 99% of all forums, and there is a single REPLY button at the bottom
i use - i cannot see to which post it links, and i cannot influence it (or so i believe).

but thats also one of the reasons why i often start my mssgs with addressing somebody
in particular. naturally, they are for everybody, but sometimes they answer on a specific point
of a specific person. like this one here, to you.

greetings - heinz -

[davidh]

Not only that, but it completely fouls the cookie situation and prevents you from being able to do a Classic login.

David, I know you're trying to help, but help coming from two different directions is only going to confuse things. Gary is one of the Classic Help sysops; let him troubleshoot the situation -- I'm sure he can get Heinz squared away.

--Lindsey Thanks, Lindsey. I'll just keep my discussion limited to wine and cheese, then. DH

[heinz57g]

>> I'll just keep my discussion limited to wine and cheese, then

david, if you would have said sex, drugs and rock-n-roll, you would have had my full
attention - but wine and cheese?

lindsey is though right: limiting ones discussion, specially when very busy people like gary
are involved, to a few main points does get quicker results at times - that does NOT mean all
the other points, hints, issues, tips and tricks are not of value - and they certainly will not
go unnoticed with me.

but right now, all i need to find out is why EI6 refuses to let me log into that forum - nothing
else.

THAT, in turn, will then tell me why CS402 does not work.

and then i am ready for wine and cheese ... or S/D/R!

greetings - heinz -

[Gary Maltzen]

gives the following error page (plain black on white):
From Control Panel open "Internet Options"

Select the "Security" tab

Click on "Restricted Sites" then the "Sites" button. If you have updated security you should have a LONG list of sites; make certain there are no COMPUSERVE.COM entries

Click on "Trusted Sites" then the "Sites" button; do you have anything listed there?

Click on "Internet Zone"; what security level do you have set?

Select the "Privacy" tab; what privacy level do you have set?

[Lindsey]

Thanks, Lindsey. I'll just keep my discussion limited to wine and cheese, then. DH
Wine and cheese sounds interesting! ;)

I don't mean to step on your toes, and your help is most welcome, I was just afraid we were getting to a point of too many cooks.

--Lindsey

[Gary Maltzen]

I'll just keep my discussion limited to wine and cheese, then.Good idea; I'll join you -- <sip varietal="Cab Franc" />

[Lindsey]

Good idea; I'll join you -- <sip varietal="Cab Franc" />
Ooooh, I rather like Cab Franc, too!

--Lindsey

[heinz57g]

gary, before the entire crew here gets drunk:

i had actually cleaned out many of those settings just in case (but kept the records and settings),
right now it looks as follows:

>> "Restricted Sites" then "Sites" --> empty

>> "Trusted Sites" then "Sites" --> empty

>> "Internet Zone" ... security level --> user defined

>> "Privacy" ... level --> user defined

here there are entries on SITES, as always allowed are entered aol.com, compuserve.com and
netscape.com

greetings - heinz - (still sober)

[Gary Maltzen]

"Internet Zone" ... security level --> user defined
"Privacy" ... level --> user definedDepending on what you have customized, there might be a problem in one of those.
Provided you ARE behind a firewalled router, I suggest you record the (customized) settings for each then set both to default.

[heinz57g]

I at least have not changed them for xx months, and the non-reachable forum and
CS402 problem came all of a sudden, only 14 days ago.

but let me try ... to late for today (2am), but tmrrw.

greetings - heinz -

PS: wont be able to do this before the weekend, dont want to screw up things.

there are sooooo many settings. i keep seeing on the web complete printouts of those settings,
on a long page, but i cannot figure or find a way to do this myself. anybody knows how to SAVE
old settings so they can be seen or even imported back in, or at least print out those long lists?

[heinz57g]

gary, how can you do this? i havent been in tears for years, and now you did it.

having been on some unforeseen emergency trip for 20 days. i return here to bug
you some more, and you are just gone. gone forever!

who but you would sneak out like this? who but you would now win the trophy for
the Most Helpful Guy in the world?

who would give me his semi-secret personal email addrs and then sit up all night
to solve a problem of someone 15000 miles away he doesnt even really know?

somehow, if you'd find out how much we all miss you, i have the feeling you'd work
out a way to come back - at least occasionally, and whenever any of your family
and friends have a problem.

promise then: i will NEVER argue with you again.

greetings - heinz -

[Lindsey]

What a nice message, Heinz! Did you see the link to the web obituary? There's a guest book there, and you should copy the message you just left here to that guest book, because I think it would mean a lot to his family.

--Lindsey

[heinz57g]

lindsey, will do, but give me a day, pls - i am still swallowing. had talked to him on the phone a
couple of times, and would think his humor would get my mssg 100% - not everybody might, though.

greetings - heinz -

[Lindsey]

lindsey, will do, but give me a day, pls - i am still swallowing. had talked to him on the phone a couple of times, and would think his humor would get my mssg 100% - not everybody might, though.
Believe me, I understand the need for some time to absorb news like that.

I understood exactly what you were saying, and I am sure Gary's wife would, too. You were writing straight from the heart, and that came through loud and clear.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

lindsey, will do, but give me a day, pls - i am still swallowing. had talked to him on the phone a
couple of times, and would think his humor would get my mssg 100% - not everybody might, though.Bonnie, his wife, certainly will understand the humor -- and will appreciate it. I'll add your message to those I'm accumulating to send to her as well.