Guard & Reserves active duty now indefinite

[ndebord]

The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday.... Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace said.

[Lindsey]

The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday.... Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace said.
I'm beginning to think that those that are saying that there is more going on here than just the surge are right. We're gearing up to go to war with Iran.

These guys really are insane.

--Lindsey

[ndebord]

ND>>The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday.... Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace said.


"I'm beginning to think that those that are saying that there is more going on here than just the surge are right. We're gearing up to go to war with Iran.

These guys really are insane."

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

The Army can't meet its quotas for the volunteer force and even the Marine Corp is having trouble meeting its needs. The Marine Corp has said that it can only train an additional 1-2000 new recruits each year (or drop its standards). At that rate, 27,000 new Marines would take 13 years to increase force strength.

As for Iran and Syria, if the President were to do this, I would hope there will be congressional opposition and finally a test of Nixon/Bush's definition of Executive powers (Cheney's delusion). Otherwise, Putsch...

[Judy G. Russell]

The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday.... Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Peter Pace said.Oh my word... time to get out, citizen-soldiers. Time to get out.

[Judy G. Russell]

I'm beginning to think that those that are saying that there is more going on here than just the surge are right. We're gearing up to go to war with Iran. These guys really are insane.If he goes to war with Iran, then I will join you 1000% -- impeach him. I'm willing (not happy, but willing) to allow the political process to work on the rest of it, but spreading this disastrous war beyond Iraq? Impeach him. Him and his little dog (Cheney), too.

[ndebord]

If he goes to war with Iran, then I will join you 1000% -- impeach him. I'm willing (not happy, but willing) to allow the political process to work on the rest of it, but spreading this disastrous war beyond Iraq? Impeach him. Him and his little dog (Cheney), too.


Judy,

You've got it half right. Impeach Cheney and his little dog Bush too...

[ndebord]

Oh my word... time to get out, citizen-soldiers. Time to get out.


Judy,

I was down in Red Bank back in 2004 and heard a young man say this in front of the Army Reserve recruitment office:

"You can check in, but you can't check out."

(works for humans as well as cockaroaches.)

<sigh>

[Lindsey]

As for Iran and Syria, if the President were to do this, I would hope there will be congressional opposition and finally a test of Nixon/Bush's definition of Executive powers (Cheney's delusion). Otherwise, Putsch...
Senator Biden told Condi Rice when she testifed for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Thursday that if the president did that, he would provoke a Constitutional confrontation with the Senate. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, because if the Congress can't stop him, the only thing left is to take to the streets. And that would get ugly -- look what has been going on in Oaxaca (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/20/1443211&mode=thread&tid=25).

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

If he goes to war with Iran, then I will join you 1000% -- impeach him. I'm willing (not happy, but willing) to allow the political process to work on the rest of it, but spreading this disastrous war beyond Iraq? Impeach him. Him and his little dog (Cheney), too.
I am truly frightened -- not of Iraq, not of Hezbollah, not of al-Qaeda, but of George Bush and the people whispering in his ear. They listen to nobody but each other, and they seem to have the idea that they answer to no one. Somewhere between 60 and 70 percent of the country is against this initiative of his, but he doesn't even pause in his rush to implement it. It doesn't look like anything is going to stop these guys short of impeachment -- or revolution.

Short commentary by Flynt Leverett (co-author of the redacted op-ed recently published in the NY Times) here (http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/jan/12/note_from_flynt_leverett_most_important_parts_of_b ush_speech_about_iran_not_iraq); a very prescient (and, in retrospect, very worrying) article from the Washington Monthly by Josh Marshall here (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html).

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

You've got it half right. Impeach Cheney and his little dog Bush too...Six of one... half-dozen of another...

[Judy G. Russell]

I am truly frightened -- not of Iraq, not of Hezbollah, not of al-Qaeda, but of George Bush and the people whispering in his ear. They listen to nobody but each other, and they seem to have the idea that they answer to no one. Somewhere between 60 and 70 percent of the country is against this initiative of his, but he doesn't even pause in his rush to implement it.Scary doesn't begin to describe these guys...

[Judy G. Russell]

I was down in Red Bank back in 2004 and heard a young man say this in front of the Army Reserve recruitment office: "You can check in, but you can't check out."And God help the poor babies who checked in...

[ndebord]

And God help the poor babies who checked in...

Judy,

Tell me about it. One member of that large filipino family who are our close friends, has been in the Reserve (Physician's Assistant) for 7 years now (out of an 8 year commitment) and thinks he will be extended. He was lucky in that his unit was pulled from active duty while on the tarmac! (Change in plans from our oh so efficient Pentagon) back in 2004. While awaiting new orders, he was noticed by an officer in the medical unit at Fort Dix (where they were sitting awaiting orders). He was immediately transferred to the headquarters batallion as Dix is the major east coast transshipment point for overseas postings. They needed medical workers on the base and there he has remained ever since. But stop loss may mean he has to stay in for awhile and there is the possibility that he may once again get sent overseas piecemeal (as he he is no longer assigned with his former unit).

[Judy G. Russell]

stop loss may mean he has to stay in for awhile and there is the possibility that he may once again get sent overseas piecemeal (as he he is no longer assigned with his former unit).Yuck. Piecemeal is definitely no good at all.

[ndebord]

Oh my word... time to get out, citizen-soldiers. Time to get out.

Judy,

In the same vein and a further indication of how stretched the Army is right now, this from military.com.

"According to NAVPA, some citizen soldiers returning to college after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are being told that they lose their eligibility for continued GI Bill benefits if they stop drilling with the Guard or Reserve."

[Lindsey]

"According to NAVPA, some citizen soldiers returning to college after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are being told that they lose their eligibility for continued GI Bill benefits if they stop drilling with the Guard or Reserve."
IOW, GWB is saying "Do as I say, not as I did."

--Lindsey

[ndebord]

IOW, GWB is saying "Do as I say, not as I did."

--Lindsey

Or if you are "Prince George," you get to stop drilling whenever you choose, regardless of your military status, (so to speak) and not pay the piper.

[Judy G. Russell]

In the same vein and a further indication of how stretched the Army is right now, this from military.com.

"According to NAVPA, some citizen soldiers returning to college after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are being told that they lose their eligibility for continued GI Bill benefits if they stop drilling with the Guard or Reserve."Oh for heaven's sake... haven't these poor saps paid enough (often literally in blood and bone)???

[ndebord]

Oh for heaven's sake... haven't these poor saps paid enough (often literally in blood and bone)???

Judy,

Nope. When wars go sour, the troops falter and governments work harder to keep their forces in the field. Napoleon, at the end, was drafting from 12 to 62.

In WWII, the average age of a casualty was 18. I believe in Iraq, the average age is 27.

[Judy G. Russell]

In WWII, the average age of a casualty was 18. I believe in Iraq, the average age is 27.Part of that, though, is because in WWII there was a draft. Another part, however, and this cannot be emphasized enough, is that in WWII there were young men (among them my Uncle David) who lied about their age so they COULD go to fight what they (and we all) considered a Just War.

[ndebord]

Part of that, though, is because in WWII there was a draft. Another part, however, and this cannot be emphasized enough, is that in WWII there were young men (among them my Uncle David) who lied about their age so they COULD go to fight what they (and we all) considered a Just War.


Originally Posted by ndebord
In WWII, the average age of a casualty was 18. I believe in Iraq, the average age is 27.

Judy,

Well, in WWII, a lot of the kids joined up prior to being drafted. The reason why the death age in Iraq is so old is because the numbers are skewed by the numbers of guard and reserves who are actively involved in the fight. You commonly see KIAs of people in their 40s now.

[Judy G. Russell]

The reason why the death age in Iraq is so old is because the numbers are skewed by the numbers of guard and reserves who are actively involved in the fight. You commonly see KIAs of people in their 40s now.True. And you don't see the kids joining up to be "allowed" to go fight in this War.

[ndebord]

True. And you don't see the kids joining up to be "allowed" to go fight in this War.

Judy,

They've reduced standards to allow the latest crop of kids to join the fight. The Pentagon claims that by historical standards, the newly lessened standards are still significantly higher than the historical average by quite a bit. Don't quite follow their logic, but there it is.

[Lindsey]

The Pentagon claims that by historical standards, the newly lessened standards are still significantly higher than the historical average by quite a bit.
Hah! Like I'm inclined to trust the Pentagon to give me valid statistics!

--Lindsey

[ndebord]

Hah! Like I'm inclined to trust the Pentagon to give me valid statistics!

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

Ah, well, like any bureaucracy, there are institutional standards that resist manipulation and sometimes let a ray of truth come through. Some administrations are more manipulative than others (like this one).

[Lindsey]

Ah, well, like any bureaucracy, there are institutional standards that resist manipulation
Yeah, and in this administration, those guys get fired or retired early.

--Lindsey

[ndebord]

Yeah, and in this administration, those guys get fired or retired early.

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

The bureaucracy is large. They can't fire everyone. But it sure does like they're trying to establish total control.

<sigh>

[Lindsey]

The bureaucracy is large. They can't fire everyone.
No; they just fire the strong ones, and then count on that cowing the rest.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

They've reduced standards to allow the latest crop of kids to join the fight. The Pentagon claims that by historical standards, the newly lessened standards are still significantly higher than the historical average by quite a bit. Don't quite follow their logic, but there it is.I suspect they're gauging this on raw educational stats -- how many high school grads etc. But like Lindsey I wouldn't trust them on anything.

[ndebord]

I suspect they're gauging this on raw educational stats -- how many high school grads etc. But like Lindsey I wouldn't trust them on anything.

Judy,

An accurate gauge of how desperate an Army gets is the age range allowed to join. Napoleon was doing 12 to 62 at the end. We now allow you to join up to the age of 42.

<sigh>

If this trend keeps on going, I could join up again "any day now"!

[Lindsey]

I suspect they're gauging this on raw educational stats -- how many high school grads etc. But like Lindsey I wouldn't trust them on anything.
From Salon.com's War Room (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/02/14/army/index.html) blog today:

The U.S. Army exceeded its recruitment goals for January, the eighth month in a row in which it has hit the numbers expected of it. One reason for this newfound success? The Army is accepting more and more recruits with criminal histories.

As the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us/14military.html?hp&ex=1171515600&en=d763ab40cba3657d&ei=5094&partner=homepage) reports, the number of criminal-background "waivers" granted to recruits has grown by about 65 percent in the last three years. The Times says that the "sharpest increase" has come in waivers for "serious misdemeanors" -- crimes like aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide.

The good news: As the Times explains, "soldiers with criminal histories made up only" -- only! -- "11.7 percent of the Army recruits in 2006."
My favorite Salon.com reader comment on that item:

But still no gays allowed, you notice

Since gays are prejudicial to good order and discipline and undermine unit cohesion and morale.
--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

An accurate gauge of how desperate an Army gets is the age range allowed to join. Napoleon was doing 12 to 62 at the end. We now allow you to join up to the age of 42. <sigh>If this trend keeps on going, I could join up again "any day now"!I'd prefer to be too old or too young... and to keep all of my male relatives the same.

[Judy G. Russell]

My favorite Salon.com reader comment on that item:The good news: As the Times explains, "soldiers with criminal histories made up only" -- only! -- "11.7 percent of the Army recruits in 2006."Oh. My. God. And they're handing over automatic weapons to these people...

[Lindsey]

Oh. My. God. And they're handing over automatic weapons to these people...
Exactly. This is also not likely to help the "bad apple" incidents that are serving to inflame sentiment against the US.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Exactly. This is also not likely to help the "bad apple" incidents that are serving to inflame sentiment against the US.Talk about setting the foxes to guard the henhouses...

[ndebord]

True. And you don't see the kids joining up to be "allowed" to go fight in this War.


Judy,

http://www.rawstory.com//news/2007/Pentagon_planning_to_send_14000_National_0221.html

The headline reads:

Pentagon planning to send 14,000 National Guard troops back to Iraq, shortening off-duty time

[Lindsey]

One more reason not to trust any statistics put out by this administration:

WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors counted immigration violations, marriage fraud and drug trafficking among anti-terror cases in the four years after 9/11 even though no evidence linked them to terror activity, a Justice Department audit said Tuesday.

Overall, nearly all of the terrorism-related statistics on investigations, referrals and cases examined by department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine were either diminished or inflated. Only two of 26 sets of department data reported between 2001 and 2005 were accurate, the audit found.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070220/ap_on_go_ot/terror_prosecutions

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Nothing surprises me about this "anti-terror" business any more.

[Judy G. Russell]

Pentagon planning to send 14,000 National Guard troops back to Iraq, shortening off-duty timeEveryone I know in the Guard is getting out. We're ruining our entire guard and reserve system with this.

[ndebord]

Everyone I know in the Guard is getting out. We're ruining our entire guard and reserve system with this.


Judy,

And all because we have a weak emperor and a strong, mad Vice.

[Judy G. Russell]

And all because we have a weak emperor and a strong, mad Vice.The emperor ain't exactly well wired, either...

[ndebord]

The emperor ain't exactly well wired, either...

Judy,

O.K. The "mad couple" then.

<g>

[Judy G. Russell]

O.K. The "mad couple" then.<g>If only it were a :D instead of an :eek: