Will the plants survive???

[Judy G. Russell]

Okay, so this weather here in the Northeast is totally crazy. (Not that yours in Colorado isn't wacky, too, Jeff!) It was close to 70 degrees yesterday here, it was 45 today, it'll be 30 tomorrow night, and back to the mid-60s by next week.

So... are any of the plants gonna make it? I mean all my lovely crocuses and daffodils and tulips that are already poking their heads out of the ground... and what about my dogwood, and...?????

This is nuts.

[lensue]

>So... are any of the plants gonna make it? I mean all my lovely crocuses and daffodils and tulips that are already poking their heads out of the ground... and what about my dogwood, and...?????<

Judy, I have them all and many more--IMO they are all gonna make it! Remember that whatever the bulbs start to do when it turns cold again as it's going to do they stop growing! OTOH we have a camelia that finally has reached maturity and has been flowering for the last 6 weeks!

[Judy G. Russell]

IMO they are all gonna make it! Remember that whatever the bulbs start to do when it turns cold again as it's going to do they stop growing!I sure hope you're right. I'm gonna be verrrrrry annoyed if I lose all of this year's flowers!

OTOH we have a camelia that finally has reached maturity and has been flowering for the last 6 weeks!Gorgeous. In January no less.

[lensue]

>Gorgeous. In January no less.<

Judy, it took about 5 years of patience--most camelias aren't hardy to our area but this one is--it would develop buds but they wouldn't flower--not until this year when they're making up for lost time! Our heaths are doing particuliarly well and we have quite alot of color from them this year. Regards, Len

[Lindsey]

I'm gonna be verrrrrry annoyed if I lose all of this year's flowers!
Sometimes it happens. I remember one spring around here when there were almost no azaleas blooming, or at least none of the early ones, because of a late frost. My mother's tulip magnolia loses its blossoms 2 years out of 3 because it blooms early, it is at the northern edge of its hardiness zone, and it is almost always tempted into bloom before the last of the sub-freezing weather.

The bulbs will be fine, as Lenny said. The flowering trees and shrubs -- well, you might not have any bloom in the spring. Or some of them might manage a second bloom at the proper time. You'll just have to wait and see. This is the thing with gardening -- there are no guarantees of anything.

This is also going to be the thing with global warming. Warmer winters are going to throw a lot of plants into terrible confusion.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Our heaths are doing particuliarly well and we have quite alot of color from them this year.This year??? 2007?????

[Judy G. Russell]

The bulbs will be fine, as Lenny said. The flowering trees and shrubs -- well, you might not have any bloom in the spring. Or some of them might manage a second bloom at the proper time. You'll just have to wait and see. This is the thing with gardening -- there are no guarantees of anything.Whiiiiiine. Okay. I can handle this, I suppose. And I guess I could just plant some annuals somewhere to get some color. But geez..... It's cold and raw and wet out tonight, after 70+ degrees yesterday. BLEAH!!!!

[Lindsey]

OTOH we have a camelia that finally has reached maturity and has been flowering for the last 6 weeks!
My mother has some camellias that have been in bloom, too. This is the season for the sasanquas, but the japonicas have been blooming, too, and they normally bloom in the spring. I wouldn't be surprised to see them bloom a second time, though.

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Whiiiiiine. Okay. I can handle this, I suppose. And I guess I could just plant some annuals somewhere to get some color. But geez..... It's cold and raw and wet out tonight, after 70+ degrees yesterday. BLEAH!!!!
Yeah, I know, it's horribly frustrating. You work yourself to death planting and watering and cultivating and pruning, and then the weather does something insane and kicks the props out from under you. The watchword of gardeners is "Just wait 'til next year."

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>Just wait 'til next year<

Lindsey, this is especially true for us this coming spring--we can't wait to start landscaping around the new pond and continue the planting around the 2 new arbors--I think I posted some photos of the pond but you may not have seen the 2 arbors. Also we want to get better protection for our one remaining goldfish from the darn great blue heron--he seems to have gotten the other 2--more plants and maybe a milk crate or something where the poor fish can hide. Regards, Len

[lensue]

>it's horribly frustrating<

Lindsey, something else frustrating me--I tried to attach a photo of the arbors from my last message but for the first time ever it didn't work--I'll try again. Regards, Len

[Judy G. Russell]

Yeah, I know, it's horribly frustrating. You work yourself to death planting and watering and cultivating and pruning, and then the weather does something insane and kicks the props out from under you. The watchword of gardeners is "Just wait 'til next year."I'll have to keep that in mind. But insane weather -- geez. This is NUTS!!!

[Lindsey]

Also we want to get better protection for our one remaining goldfish from the darn great blue heron--he seems to have gotten the other 2--more plants and maybe a milk crate or something where the poor fish can hide.
Oooops! Blue herons are wonderful birds to watch (I've seen them sometimes on the James River), but it's not so good if they're eating your goldfish!

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

I tried to attach a photo of the arbors from my last message but for the first time ever it didn't work--I'll try again.
Oh, that's really lovely Len!

I suspect the problem with the picture is not letting the upload finish before you click the button to close the upload dialog. I've done that before myself; it's easy to think the button is telling you to "click here now," but if you look closely, you'll see that the upload is still in progress.

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

I'll have to keep that in mind. But insane weather -- geez. This is NUTS!!!
I guess maybe the trick is to diversify, just like with investments. That way, you're less likely to lose everything to unseasonable weather, and nothing that happens, short of a flood or a tornado, is going to ruin the entire garden for the entire year.

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>Blue herons are wonderful birds to watch <

Lindsey, before we got so heavily into gardening we were avid bird watchers--we loved all the herons and egrets! On our last trip to Florida only a few weeks ago we saw many herons and egrets in the Everglades and a number of wild life sanctuaries. Back to our garden one evening as Sue and I looked out our picture windows with the lights on the pond and there he was again looking some macabre figure out of Phantom of the Opera--we had already chased him about 5 times in 2 days during the daylight hours but to see him at night! I got one shot of him from far away but he's so big you can still make him out! Regards, Len

[lensue]

>but if you look closely, you'll see that the upload is still in progress<

Lindsey, thanks, I'll check that for the future! Regards, Len

[Lindsey]

Lindsey, thanks, I'll check that for the future! Regards, Len
I haven't done an attachment upload here in quite a while, so I can't remember exactly what it looks like to tell you, but I think if you know to look for it, you'll recognize it when you see it.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

I guess maybe the trick is to diversify, just like with investments. That way, you're less likely to lose everything to unseasonable weather, and nothing that happens, short of a flood or a tornado, is going to ruin the entire garden for the entire year.Good point. I surely do need to get some good summer bloomers out there, and I'm still looking for really good flowers for shade.

[lensue]

>I'm still looking for really good flowers for shade.<

Judy, annuals or perennials? Regards, Len

[Judy G. Russell]

>I'm still looking for really good flowers for shade.<

annuals or perennials?I'd prefer perennials, of course -- anything that limits the amount of work is better by me. But I'd consider annuals depending on how pretty they are! It just seems that everyone says hostas hostas and more hostas the minute you say "shade" and that's not exactly what I want.

[lensue]

>I'd prefer perennials, of course <

Judy, the annuals will give you a show for an entire late spring/summer/early fall season--most perrenials will give you flowers for from 2 to 6 weeks--that's something to consider too! We're strongly invested in hostas--they truly are great! Another very strong perennial we have alot of are various types of coral bells! Does the area in question get some sun? Meantime alot of the garden catalogs are coming in which is nice but does make you think that we have nearly 3 months to wait before any planting can go on. Regards, Len

[Judy G. Russell]

But ... but .... but hostas and coral bells aren't really FLOWERS. I want FLOWERS. And yes the area does get some sun, but not a great deal.

[lensue]

>And yes the area does get some sun, but not a great deal<

Judy, any chance you could post a photo of the area? Regards, Len

[Judy G. Russell]

any chance you could post a photo of the area? I don't think I have a shot of the backyard but I'll check when I get home. (Yeah, I know... late night.)

[lensue]

>but I'll check when I get home<

Judy, I'd love to see what the area we're talking about looks like--on annuals they've come up with very reasonably priced new guinea impatiens--both Home Depot and Lowes had them last year at very good prices and they did superbly for us--even in pretty strong sun--bloomed their heads off all summer. Mostly our garden is full of perennials but we have a few areas for annuals--they can really pay off for you--of course you gotta watch them for watering purposes if it gets dry. Regards, Len

[Dodi Schultz]

Judy, you can get a great deal of variability with hostas, you know; they're not all dark green. They come in all shades from near-yellow to bluish, and some are bicolor. And they DO produce flowers, some of them very showy and impressive.

BTW, here in Manhattan it was 72 on Saturday (T-shirts and jeans, no socks; nice to shed the layers, if only for a day!). And squill and crocuses were popping up in the backyard. Glad to hear that getting back to normal cold will only stop the unnatural activity, not kill them; I was worried there for a bit.

--DS

[Lindsey]

But ... but .... but hostas and coral bells aren't really FLOWERS. I want FLOWERS. And yes the area does get some sun, but not a great deal.
Coral bells are too flowers (http://www.daytonnursery.com/Encyclopedia/Perennials/Heuchera.htm)! OK, they're not big flashy flowers, like peonies, but they're definitely flowers! And they provide interest in the form of their foliage even when they're not blooming. Not to mention that they are easy-peasy to grow.

And I agree with Len and Dodi about hostas -- yes, their primary interest is foliage, but they are far from boring -- there are scores of different varieties, in colors from reddish (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/invincible.jpg) to blue (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aqua_velva.jpg) to lime green (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aspen_gold.jpg) to gold (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/sun_power.jpg), large (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/komodo_dragon.jpg) and small (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Blue_Mouse_Ears.jpg), flat and spreading (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Joseph.jpg) to upright (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/nigrescens.jpg), plain (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Dees_golden_jewel.jpg) and variegated (green (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/sweet_home_chicago.jpg), white (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/American_Sweetheart.jpg), and gold (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/brother_stephan.jpg)), narrow leaves (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/stiletto.jpg) and broad (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/High_noon.jpg), smooth (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/obsession.jpg) and ribbed (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/glacier_cascade.jpg). And some few manage impressive and even fragrant flowers (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aphrodite.jpg).

Don't sell foliage plants short -- if nothing else, they provide the backdrop against which your showy flowers can strut their stuff.

But if you want flowers in the shade, my hands-down recommendation is: impatiens. Yes, they're annuals, but sometimes they will seed themselves and come up the next year. (There's a limit, though, to the extent to which they will do that.) And as Len said: annuals will give you a very long season of bloom; perennials usually only a few weeks. Annuals only have a single season to set all of the seed they will ever put out in a lifetime, so they have to put everything they have into that one season. Perennials need to leave some energy to survive the winter, so they pace themselves.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Coral bells are too flowers (http://www.daytonnursery.com/Encyclopedia/Perennials/Heuchera.htm)! OK, they're not big flashy flowers, like peonies, but they're definitely flowers! And they provide interest in the form of their foliage even when they're not blooming. Not to mention that they are easy-peasy to grow.Not to mention this in the description: "Even though they tolerate a couple hours of shade, best results are achieved when grown in full sun."

And I agree with Len and Dodi about hostas -- yes, their primary interest is foliage, but they are far from boring -- there are scores of different varieties, in colors from reddish (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/invincible.jpg) to blue (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aqua_velva.jpg) to lime green (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aspen_gold.jpg) to gold (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/sun_power.jpg), large (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/komodo_dragon.jpg) and small (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Blue_Mouse_Ears.jpg), flat and spreading (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Joseph.jpg) to upright (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/nigrescens.jpg), plain (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/Dees_golden_jewel.jpg) and variegated (green (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/sweet_home_chicago.jpg), white (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/American_Sweetheart.jpg), and gold (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/brother_stephan.jpg)), narrow leaves (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/stiletto.jpg) and broad (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/High_noon.jpg), smooth (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/obsession.jpg) and ribbed (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/glacier_cascade.jpg). And some few manage impressive and even fragrant flowers (http://hostapatch.com/pimages/aphrodite.jpg). Okay, okay, you've convinced me. I'll look at 'em.

Don't sell foliage plants short -- if nothing else, they provide the backdrop against which your showy flowers can strut their stuff.Good point. I saw some daylilies in one catalog that said they were shade-tolerant and they'd surely look nice above some of that greenery.

But if you want flowers in the shade, my hands-down recommendation is: impatiens. Yes, they're annuals, but sometimes they will seed themselves and come up the next year. (There's a limit, though, to the extent to which they will do that.) And as Len said: annuals will give you a very long season of bloom; perennials usually only a few weeks. Annuals only have a single season to set all of the seed they will ever put out in a lifetime, so they have to put everything they have into that one season. Perennials need to leave some energy to survive the winter, so they pace themselves.Hmmm... I do like impatiens. I'll have to think about that.

[lensue]

>I saw some daylilies in one catalog that said they were shade-tolerant <

Judy, we are heavily invested in daylilies--hundreds of them--I strongly recommend them for the sun--we have a few in a shadier area and they stay alive but don't give you nearly the flower show you get from the ones in the sun. BTW we put daffodil bulbs in every hole where we've planted a daylily--you get 2 color shows that way--one in May and one in the summer. As the daylily plants come up it hides the daffodil foliage which starts to look ratty but which you can't cut away because the bulb needs that foliage for the following year. Regards, Len

[Lindsey]

Not to mention this in the description: "Even though they tolerate a couple hours of shade, best results are achieved when grown in full sun."
That's going to be pretty generally true of plants with showy flowers: you get a better flower show when the plant gets at least a little sun during the day.

Good point. I saw some daylilies in one catalog that said they were shade-tolerant and they'd surely look nice above some of that greenery.
Daylilies provide their own greenery, actually! And while they may do best in sun, as Len says, the landscaping service in the office park where I work plants them under the large trees in the traffic islands down Cox Road (where they get what I guess you would call "high shade (http://www.answers.com/topic/high-shade)") and they are still quite impressive.

Hmmm... I do like impatiens. I'll have to think about that.
Another thing that came to me later that you might like: bleeding heart (http://www.mrgrow.com/plant/may.htm). I bought some for my mother to plant underneath a swamp magnolia where she already had some hosta planted with some pale-blue scilla (http://www.theplantexpert.com/springbulbs/Scilla1.html) (bluebells), and I think the combination is quite handsome. I'll have to try to remember to take a picture when they're in bloom again. (You might want some bluebells, too, but you'll need to miss this spring and wait until it's time again to plant spring bulbs. Then again, I think there are some varieties of scilla that bloom in the fall, so you might want to plant some of those this spring to get bloom in the fall.)

--Lindsey

[lensue]

> bleeding heart.<

Lindsey, we planted just a few of those in some of our shade areas and they have spread beautifully and formed some love colonies--we have them in with another lovely perennial--columbines--all these have spread nicely, are completely carefree and extremely reliable! Another great shade plant which we unfortunately have been kind of weak in but which we're trying to rectify is astilbe--a wonderful plant. Just this year we visited a private garden through the garden conservancy where they had the most incredible astilbe displays I have ever seen! Regards, Len

[Judy G. Russell]

we are heavily invested in daylilies--hundreds of them--I strongly recommend them for the sun--we have a few in a shadier area and they stay alive but don't give you nearly the flower show you get from the ones in the sun.As long as they give SOME show, they'd be worth it, at least mixed in with some other stuff.

BTW we put daffodil bulbs in every hole where we've planted a daylily--you get 2 color shows that way--one in May and one in the summer. As the daylily plants come up it hides the daffodil foliage which starts to look ratty but which you can't cut away because the bulb needs that foliage for the following year.I wish I'd known that when I planted those daffodils last year. Oh well... it ain't like I won't be planting more!

[Judy G. Russell]

Another great shade plant which we unfortunately have been kind of weak in but which we're trying to rectify is astilbeMy sister planted a bunch of astilbe in an area of her yard that's much like this area of mine and promises to keep me posted on her results.

[Judy G. Russell]

That's going to be pretty generally true of plants with showy flowers: you get a better flower show when the plant gets at least a little sun during the day.Some sun yes. Mostly sun and only a couple of hours of shade, no. Not in this area.

Daylilies provide their own greenery, actually! And while they may do best in sun, as Len says, the landscaping service in the office park where I work plants them under the large trees in the traffic islands down Cox Road (where they get what I guess you would call "high shade (http://www.answers.com/topic/high-shade)") and they are still quite impressive.Good. Then daylilies definitely get added to the mix.

Another thing that came to me later that you might like: bleeding heart (http://www.mrgrow.com/plant/may.htm). I bought some for my mother to plant underneath a swamp magnolia where she already had some hosta planted with some pale-blue scilla (http://www.theplantexpert.com/springbulbs/Scilla1.html) (bluebells), and I think the combination is quite handsome.Oh those are nice. This could be fun. Daffodils and daylilies, scilla and bleeding hearts, and astilbe. Not bad!!!

[lensue]

>I wish I'd known that when I planted those daffodils last year<

Judy, it's not too late to put the daylilies close to those daffodils--just expand the daffodil holes and try not to disrupt them or dig new holes near the daffs--leave some space because daylilies get big and powerful! Regards, Len

[Lindsey]

Just this year we visited a private garden through the garden conservancy where they had the most incredible astilbe displays I have ever seen!
Those are indeed lovely displays! I'm trying to remember why I never planted any astilbe. Oh, I think I see it: they need good drainage, and my soil is pretty heavy clay.

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Oh those are nice. This could be fun. Daffodils and daylilies, scilla and bleeding hearts, and astilbe. Not bad!!!
I think it sounds very nice! (And come to think of it, I think my mother has daffodils in that bed I was talking about as well. Certainly she's got some foliage popping up out of the ground right now that looks a lot like daffodils!

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

it's not too late to put the daylilies close to those daffodils--just expand the daffodil holes and try not to disrupt them or dig new holes near the daffs--leave some space because daylilies get big and powerful! I may end up redoing those back beds completely anyway -- I really didn't know what I was doing when I first did it -- and will then replant with lots of goodies, I think. I don't want to crowd anything out, but I do want a LOT more than I planted.

[Judy G. Russell]

my soil is pretty heavy clay.Like a lot of Virginia! I remember once when my nephews were very small (the ones called the Tasmanian Devils and who are now in their 20s), they visited my mother at her house in Fluvanna County and "painted" part of her house with the red clay "dirt" nearby. We never did get the stains off the house...

[lensue]

>I don't want to crowd anything out, but I do want a LOT more than I planted.<

Judy, sounds good--we've been planning just these kinds of projects for years--we started with just a few beds and now we have more beds than we can handle! Regards, Len [g]

[lensue]

>they need good drainage<

Lindsey, yes, if there's a drought these plants demand watering--especially until they get established. Regards, Len

[lensue]

>foliage popping up out of the ground right now that looks a lot like daffodils!<

Lindsey, yesterday I was walking around in our garden and sure enough even in our colder part of NJ a little bit of daffodil foliage has come up in just a few places we've planted them--still I'm not complaining about this milder winter we've been having--may it continue--I hate snow and ice and sleet! Regards, Len [g]

[Judy G. Russell]

she's got some foliage popping up out of the ground right now that looks a lot like daffodils!Even my silly daffodils are totally confused (and, of course, it's back in the 50s today and the forecast says seasonal only for two of the next 10 days. Yesterday I was driving in to work and the announcer was reading the weather report and she dropped her voice and sounded amazed and dismayed when she slowly said that the high temp for the day would be no more than (gasp) 38. Come ON, for cryin' out loud! It's January! We should have snow and ice and freezing temps already!

[Judy G. Russell]

we've been planning just these kinds of projects for years--we started with just a few beds and now we have more beds than we can handle! The difference is that your yard is so much bigger than mine. I only have a few bed areas, really!

[Lindsey]

Like a lot of Virginia!
Yep -- it's no mystery why so many of the early plantation houses were of brick made right on the property...

I remember that red clay all along the roadsides where I went to summer camp, too. In summer it was like red powder, and if you stepped off the road in it wearing white tennis shoes, well -- you might as well consider them red-brown for the rest of the time you had them.

But where I am, you get maybe 6 inches of topsoil before you start hitting a sticky yellow goop with the consistency of Play-Dough that is almost completely impermeable to water. And the water table in the area is pretty high, anyway, as we're right at the edge of White Oak Swamp, and not terribly far from Chickahominy Swamp. (I imagine this area before it was developed would be considered "wetlands" today.) Nobody in this area has a basement; you'd never be able to keep the water out.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

I remember that red clay all along the roadsides where I went to summer camp, too. In summer it was like red powder, and if you stepped off the road in it wearing white tennis shoes, well -- you might as well consider them red-brown for the rest of the time you had them.That's right... you went to camp right in that area, didn't you? So you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. My mother never bought any of us so much as a new pair of socks before we spent summers down there -- everything had to be bought new in the fall when we got back to New Jersey because the stains were just impossible to deal with.

But where I am, you get maybe 6 inches of topsoil before you start hitting a sticky yellow goop with the consistency of Play-Dough that is almost completely impermeable to water. And the water table in the area is pretty high, anyway, as we're right at the edge of White Oak Swamp, and not terribly far from Chickahominy Swamp. (I imagine this area before it was developed would be considered "wetlands" today.) Nobody in this area has a basement; you'd never be able to keep the water out.Yikes. That does make things more difficult. So your choices are more in the "does well in wet areas" stuff, then.

[Lindsey]

That's right... you went to camp right in that area, didn't you?
The summer camp that my sister and I went to was located on South Holston Lake about halfway between Abingdon and Bristol, which is almost as far southwest as you can go in Virginia without ending up in Tennessee. (In fact, the state line runs right down the middle of the main street in Bristol.)

Yikes. That does make things more difficult. So your choices are more in the "does well in wet areas" stuff, then.
More like "does well in wet areas, but can tolerate hot sun," which narrows the choices considerably. :(

The builder sited the house as close to the southern edge of the lot as possible (because there is a highway that runs along the northern edge), and that means that I cannot plant trees to shade the sunny southern side of the house, but I have plenty of space for trees to shade the northern side that is already pretty shady. I wish I had been more cognizant of those sorts of things at the time I bought the house.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

I cannot plant trees to shade the sunny southern side of the house, but I have plenty of space for trees to shade the northern side that is already pretty shady. I wish I had been more cognizant of those sorts of things at the time I bought the house.Yeah, this whole business of owning a home is definitely a learn-as-you-go deal... and the lessons usually HURT.

[ktinkel]

Yeah, this whole business of owning a home is definitely a learn-as-you-go deal... Yeah, and there are more to learn with each and every home you buy!

[ktinkel]

Oooops! Blue herons are wonderful birds to watch (I've seen them sometimes on the James River), but it's not so good if they're eating your goldfish!Fortunately, we live on a river so do not have much of an emotional investment in the fish. But we love it when blue herons, egrets, cormorants, et al hang out on the end of our dock — they are so impressive!

Never expected to be a bird lover, but living near the water has converted me.

[Judy G. Russell]

Never expected to be a bird lover, but living near the water has converted me.Sigh... I'd sure like to have the chance to discover that for myself. (Is it retirement time yet?)

[Judy G. Russell]

Yeah, and there are more to learn with each and every home you buy!Ain't that the truth... my plan is to build and live in one more home: the home I retire to and the home they'll take me out of in a body bag. And I expect that even if I oversee every aspect of the design and construction there will still be as many problems with that one as with the others I've owned!

[lensue]

>And I expect that even if I oversee every aspect of the design <

Judy, we got lucky--we got a good architect and then really struck paydirt with a great contractor--that was nearly 10 years ago --he built our dream house and finished ahead of schedule by nearly a month--it was a mild winter similar to what we've been getting this year--he worked every week day except for one bad weather day! We also got lucky on our pond this fall--great people who built a pond sighted just the way we wanted and at a very fair price. Regards, Len

[lensue]

>I only have a few bed areas, really<

Judy, yep, know the feeling--we had 1/5 of an acre in Maplewood--that's why we moved.

[Judy G. Russell]

we had 1/5 of an acre in Maplewood--that's why we moved.Don't get be wrong: I'm not complaining. I live alone (except for the cat, who is not about to get his paws dirty grubbing around in the dirt) and am perennially overextended in terms of things to do versus time to do them! So my comment was descriptive only.

[Judy G. Russell]

Judy, we got lucky--we got a good architect and then really struck paydirt with a great contractor--that was nearly 10 years ago --he built our dream house and finished ahead of schedule by nearly a month--it was a mild winter similar to what we've been getting this year--he worked every week day except for one bad weather day! We also got lucky on our pond this fall--great people who built a pond sighted just the way we wanted and at a very fair price.I can only hope to be half so lucky. Fortunately, if all goes as planned (yeah, right, sure it will), I won't be under any particular time constraints in the whole process and will be able to afford the time to get things done right.

[Lindsey]

Never expected to be a bird lover, but living near the water has converted me.
Birds are fascinating. If I had the time, I could get into bird watching. As long as I could do it from my window...

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>Don't get be wrong: ...perennially overextended <

Judy, I think I get you--this is a great pun for a gardener--believe me Sue and I are definitely PERENIALLY OVEREXTENDED--we got so many beds with perennials to take care of in the garden it isn't funny!!! [g]

[Judy G. Russell]

>Don't get be wrong: ...perennially overextended <

Judy, I think I get you--this is a great pun for a gardener--believe me Sue and I are definitely PERENIALLY OVEREXTENDED--we got so many beds with perennials to take care of in the garden it isn't funny!!! [g]I thought you'd appreciate that one!

[ktinkel]

Birds are fascinating. If I had the time, I could get into bird watching. As long as I could do it from my window...Oh, yes — definitely the best way. Birds do not always appear when you want them to, so it is better to be comfortable until they do.

We have binoculars and other viewing gadgets at almost every window. Just in case. We occasionally see an eagle, sometimes little hawks. Turkey buzzards (weird but oddly interesting).

[ktinkel]

Sigh... I'd sure like to have the chance to discover that for myself. (Is it retirement time yet?)Sure sounds like it ought to be! :D

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Sure sounds like it ought to be! :D
http://tinyurl.com/y6nsn3

[Judy G. Russell]

http://tinyurl.com/y6nsn3MEAN MEAN MEAN MEAN. (Very funny. But MEAN.)

Dear Lord, I am sooooooo ready to retire. And since it's absolutely impossible until I'm within COBRA-distance of Medicaid, I still have a fair distance to go (damnitall).

[Judy G. Russell]

Sure sounds like it ought to be! :DI keep reading all of these pieces about how today's 75 is yesterday's 65 (people working longer, etc.). Not me. Uh uh. No way. The minute my financial advisor says I can retire without fighting the cat for catfood, I am history, out the door, no regrets. That's not to say I won't stay active and maybe even employed to some degree (I would love to continue to teach somewhere). But this five days a week business? No way no how.

[ktinkel]

I keep reading all of these pieces about how today's 75 is yesterday's 65 (people working longer, etc.). I hope your advisor finds the way for you soon.

Today’s 75 may be yesterday’s 65, but there are no guarantees. (My 65 resembles the “one-hoss shay” in the old poem!) Take your life and your little pile of money in your hands and skedaddle as soon as you responsibly can — that’s what I say!

[Dan in Saint Louis]

Take your life and your little pile of money in your hands and skedaddle as soon as you responsibly can — that’s what I say!
Several teachers who have retired from our department come back to see us; to teach part time, or just to say hello. Not ONE of them has yet said "I wish I'd worked longer."

[Lindsey]

Oh, yes — definitely the best way. Birds do not always appear when you want them to, so it is better to be comfortable until they do.

We have binoculars and other viewing gadgets at almost every window. Just in case. We occasionally see an eagle, sometimes little hawks. Turkey buzzards (weird but oddly interesting).
For sure I'm not going to get up before dawn to go tramping through the woods...

I see hawks sometimes perched in trees along the highway, and once in a while you see them in residential neighborhoods here, eyeing the rabbits that are ubiquitous. I saw some birds that I think had to be turkey buzzards working on a carcass on the little two-lane road I drive every morning to get to I-295 -- my first impression was that they were turkeys, but it didn't take long to realize they were scavanging. I thought I was going to hit one of them -- he refused to leave the road until I was almost right on him, and I had even hit the brake to slow down.

I-295 passes by a landfill on my way in to work, so I often see buzzards circling around when I get near it.

I remember being startled several years ago by a huge woodpecker. This one wasn't up in the tree, but moving along the ground. I identified it at the time, but I can't remember now what it was; I only remember that it was amazingly large. Hmmm, after consulting Google, I think it might have been a pileated woodpecker.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

Take your life and your little pile of money in your hands and skedaddle as soon as you responsibly can — that’s what I say!I couldn't agree with you more...

[Judy G. Russell]

Several teachers who have retired from our department come back to see us; to teach part time, or just to say hello. Not ONE of them has yet said "I wish I'd worked longer."Which proves they really are smart folks after all.

[Judy G. Russell]

For sure I'm not going to get up before dawn to go tramping through the woods...I might get up at dawn if the house was burning down around me. I might BE up at dawn if I hadn't been to bed yet. Other than that, dawn and I are not going to make each other's acquaintance...

[Lindsey]

I might get up at dawn if the house was burning down around me. I might BE up at dawn if I hadn't been to bed yet. Other than that, dawn and I are not going to make each other's acquaintance...
Amen, sister!

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>For sure I'm not going to get up before dawn to go tramping through the woods...<

Lindsey on our last trip to Florida we were out there many times walking in beautiful areas of Florida--it was far from the crack of dawn but we saw plenty of birds including a great view of a pileated and our first ever painted bunting--plenty of herons and egrets and anahingas and several hawks--also a limpkin and loads of ibis! And last year we were at Sanibel's great wildlife sanctuary, Ding Darling, where we got close to roseate spoonbills and white flamingos.

[Lindsey]

it was far from the crack of dawn but we saw plenty of birds
As long as it doesn't require getting up before the sun is well and truly shining, and it doesn't require walking in places where you might encounter snakes, alligators, ticks, or poison ivy.

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>it doesn't require walking in places where you might encounter snakes, alligators, ticks, or poison ivy.<

Lindsey, now where's your sense of adventure! [g] Just kidding, just kidding alot of the places have nice paths and boardwalks--you can see plenty of poison ivy and alligators but you're usually on nice comfortable paths! Ding Darling let's you ride through by car stopping whereever you choose.

[Lindsey]

I think sticking to the car sounds like about my speed!

--Lindsey

[ktinkel]

As long as it doesn't require getting up before the sun is well and truly shining, and it doesn't require walking in places where you might encounter snakes, alligators, ticks, or poison ivy.Or need to pee in the bushes!

[Judy G. Russell]

Or need to pee in the bushes!Especially important if those bushes might be hiding snakes, alligators, ticks or poison ivy!!!

[ktinkel]

Especially important if those bushes might be hiding snakes, alligators, ticks or poison ivy!!!No kidding! In my silly days, I went with some friends to swim at Stinson Beach in San Francisco. But instead of going in the gate and paying to park and all, we walked in through a brushy area next to the park, leaving our outer clothes strung across some bushes to show us the way back to our car.

Well. The bushes were infested with poison oak. By the time we realized what was happening (we had put our clothes on and gone back to the city), I was itching from, er, stem to stern. Before it was done, I had poison oak patches in my mouth, in my ears — everywhere. Turns out I am especially sensitive to poison oak/ivy. Ended up in the emergency room, got cortisone, antihistamines, ugh. For weeks, I looked like someone dangerously contagioius with a noxious skin disease.

No more nature in the raw for me, nosirree.

[lensue]

>I think sticking to the car sounds like about my speed!<

Lindsey, LOL! Still those boardwalks are pretty tame and really do give you a chance to commune with nature. We got real close to several night herons--it just so happened that a white crowned was pretty close to a yellow night heron and it was very instructional and pleasing to check out the differences between the two birds--we got great views through the binoculars and we were there with the herons alone for awhile.

[Judy G. Russell]

By the time we realized what was happening (we had put our clothes on and gone back to the city), I was itching from, er, stem to stern. Before it was done, I had poison oak patches in my mouth, in my ears — everywhere. Turns out I am especially sensitive to poison oak/ivy. Ended up in the emergency room, got cortisone, antihistamines, ugh. For weeks, I looked like someone dangerously contagioius with a noxious skin disease. No more nature in the raw for me, nosirree.YIKES!!! Yeah, that'd make me swear off forever. (My nephew Ian, then age 5, got poison ivy on a part of his anatomy that you and I don't have... I have never felt so sorry for a child in my life.)

[ktinkel]

YIKES!!! Yeah, that'd make me swear off forever. (My nephew Ian, then age 5, got poison ivy on a part of his anatomy that you and I don't have... I have never felt so sorry for a child in my life.)The guy who took us on this outing was similarly afflicted. I was sympathetic, up to a point, but since I was so miserable myself, and since he engineered the adventure in order to save about $5, I couldn’t help but also think “Serves you right!”

[lensue]

>poison ivy <

Judy, Sue and I are in constant fear of poison ivy--with all the beds we have and the need for hand weeding it's a problem--I even get nightmares of poison ivy sometimes! [g] And here's another thing I don't like--waking up to this today! [g]

[Lindsey]

Or need to pee in the bushes!
Especially if any of those other things might be in the vicinity!!

(This is why I never understood the attraction of going camping...)

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Especially important if those bushes might be hiding snakes, alligators, ticks or poison ivy!!!
Ha!! GMTA!

--Lindsey

[ktinkel]

(This is why I never understood the attraction of going camping...)Everyone except my family always went camping when I was growing up in Alaska. We all hated the idea. We would go fishing during the day, even cook our catch and eat it, but long before dark we were home safe.

I don’t even like picnics all that much. Wind blowing, bugs, uncomfortable (or no seating) — ugh. We occasionally have a glass of wine on the deck during the spring and fall, but that’s about it.

[Judy G. Russell]

Everyone except my family always went camping when I was growing up in Alaska. We all hated the idea. We would go fishing during the day, even cook our catch and eat it, but long before dark we were home safe. I don’t even like picnics all that much. Wind blowing, bugs, uncomfortable (or no seating) — ugh. We occasionally have a glass of wine on the deck during the spring and fall, but that’s about it.Same here. I enjoy a day at the beach, but at the end of the day I want a shower, a soft bed and air conditioning. My idea of "roughing it" is a Howard Johnson's instead of a Hyatt Regency...

[Judy G. Russell]

(This is why I never understood the attraction of going camping...)Camping? As in sleeping out in the woods? With bugs and bears and no indoor toilets?

No thanks.

[Lindsey]

I don’t even like picnics all that much. Wind blowing, bugs, uncomfortable (or no seating) — ugh. We occasionally have a glass of wine on the deck during the spring and fall, but that’s about it.
Hear, hear!!

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

Camping? As in sleeping out in the woods? With bugs and bears and no indoor toilets?

No thanks.
Yeah. I can remember going on overnights at summer camp. Mostly I hated them. I was terrified of waking up to find a rattlesnake in my sleeping bag. We did camp where there were toilet facilities, but even those were rather primitive. The only part I liked was making s'mores over the campfire, but that could just as easily have been done in the [indoor!] fireplace at the lodge back at the camp itself...

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>My idea of "roughing it" is a Howard Johnson's instead of a Hyatt Regency<

Judy, when I was in the National Guard we did some camping I didn't care too much for--Camp Drum for a week in the summer and those terrible weekends where it always seemed to get freezing cold at Camp Smith outside Peekskill and Fort Dix in our beloved state. And then there was the time when I was in the San Francisco National Guard where we trekked in fields owned by the military with guard dogs barking all night near the Golden Gate Bridge and after hours of walking we had peanut butter sandwiches at aboyt 4AM and went to sleep on hard pavement under the Bridge!

[lensue]

>We did camp where there were toilet facilities<

Lindsey, at one time I did some camping in the National Parks--I liked having fairly modern toilet facilities but in the middle of the night getting to them and passing those bears didn't make me too happy! [g]

[Judy G. Russell]

when I was in the National Guard we did some campingYeah, but when you're in uniform you don't have much choice! Me, I'm not in uniform and I do get to choose and I choose warm beds in the winter and air conditioning in the summer!

[Judy G. Russell]

The only part I liked was making s'mores over the campfire, but that could just as easily have been done in the [indoor!] fireplace at the lodge back at the camp itself...Well, I think it could get pretty messy fixing s'mores over an indoor fire. But there's no reason to have the fire more than a few yards from the door to go back inside afterwards!

[lensue]

>I choose warm beds in the winter and air conditioning in the summer!<

Judy, your choices are right on! [g]

[Lindsey]

Well, I think it could get pretty messy fixing s'mores over an indoor fire. But there's no reason to have the fire more than a few yards from the door to go back inside afterwards!
Messy? Nah -- all ya gotta do is toast the marshmallows. Or, more likely, burn them. Whatever it takes to soften them up to squash between the layers of chocolate and graham cracker...

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

I liked having fairly modern toilet facilities but in the middle of the night getting to them and passing those bears didn't make me too happy! [g]
I never got up in the middle of the night. I always toughed it out until the sun was up. Still do. ;-)

--Lindsey

[lensue]

>I always toughed it out until the sun was up<

Lindsey, I gotta admire you for that! [g]

[Judy G. Russell]

Messy? Nah -- all ya gotta do is toast the marshmallows. Or, more likely, burn them. Whatever it takes to soften them up to squash between the layers of chocolate and graham cracker...It's burning them without ever having any drop into the fireplace that would be the challenge for me...

[Lindsey]

It's burning them without ever having any drop into the fireplace that would be the challenge for me...
Oh, I see. Actually, I think it wouldn't be the fireplace itself that would be the problem (they'd eventually burn up and be no more than ash), but the area between the fireplace and the graham cracker they're intended to land on...

--Lindsey

Oh! Here you go -- from Wikipedia:

In recent years "S'More Kits" for making the treats on the kitchen table at home have been sold at housewares stores. These consist of a small heating element to cook the marshmallow (possibly Sterno), metal skewers and a lazy susan to hold the "raw" ingredients. These are similar to fondue sets.

[Dan in Saint Louis]

These consist of a small heating element to cook the marshmallow (possibly Sterno), metal skewers and a lazy susan to hold the "raw" ingredients.
'Taint gonna be the same without wood smoke. And maybe a little Scotch.

[Lindsey]

'Taint gonna be the same without wood smoke. And maybe a little Scotch.
Not to mention a little wood bark at the center of the marshmallow, eh? (But they for sure were not serving Scotch to girls at a summer camp...)

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

'Taint gonna be the same without wood smoke. And maybe a little Scotch.Beer was always my family's drink of choice.