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Jeff
June 15th, 2005, 02:41 PM
How to do a mass extinction with XP? I created an 'image' of my internal HD in a directory on my external HD, of about 4 gig. Then I wanted to delete that and do it again. Right click on the directory and delete was not a good idea. It took about an hour and a half to churn through apparently every file in that 4 gig and put the directory in Recycle; TG it didn't put all of the individual files in Recycle. There has to be a way to nuke a directory and everything in it then and there, yes? Or do I google the ICBM coordinates of Redmond?

- Jeff

Dan in Saint Louis
June 15th, 2005, 04:15 PM
It took about an hour and a half to churn through apparently every file in that 4 gig and put the directory in Recycle
Probably quicker:





To permanently delete a file, press and hold down SHIFT and drag it to the Recycle Bin. The item is permanently deleted and cannot be retrieved from the Recycle Bin.

Judy G. Russell
June 15th, 2005, 04:16 PM
RIGHT click on the recycle bin and choose Properties. Under Global, you can choose NOT to move files into the recycle bin but rather to delete them immediately. Make sure to change it back after doing the major delete however. You're much more likely to need to undelete something in the future!

Jeff
June 16th, 2005, 02:29 PM
RIGHT click on the recycle bin and choose Properties. Under Global, you can choose NOT to move files into the recycle bin but rather to delete them immediately. Make sure to change it back after doing the major delete however. You're much more likely to need to undelete something in the future!

Ok, I've got C and G; internal and external, independently configured. C to recycle, G to the bit bucket. But I think that will still require XP to touch each and every file in that 4 gig directory, which just took the hour and a half. Isn't there a way to just delete the 4 gig "image" directory and everything in it in one go? Like g:\ del image Oooo, DOS to the rescue? I wonder. But before I really screw up, what think yee all of that?

- Jeff

Dan in Saint Louis
June 16th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Isn't there a way to just delete the 4 gig "image" directory and everything in it in one go? Like g:\ del image Oooo, DOS to the rescue?

As I recall, even in DOS you had to empty the directory before you could remove it. But, if I understand correctly what your tree structure is, you can't do much damage by trying these from a Command Prompt:

del g:\image\*.*
rd g:\image

Other ways to speed things up include disabling indexing (Fast Find) for that drive, and disabling your virus scanner.

fhaber
June 16th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Besides what Dan said, big deletes in NT-anything are always slow, because of the permissions and sharing tags attached to every file. USB drives are even slower than directly attatched IDE. (I do hope your port is USB2, otherwise it's really slow.)

They took DELTREE away from us, but RD /S can do the same thing from the CMD prompt. Let us know the difference it makes, would you?

Gary Maltzen
June 16th, 2005, 11:04 PM
It took about an hour and a half to churn through apparently every file in that 4 gig and put the directory in Recycle
It isn't a question of how big but of how many files. Whether FAT or NTFS the system has to free every cluster of every file removed - so it's not the removal so much as the resurrection of empty space.

Jeff
June 17th, 2005, 01:33 PM
As I recall, even in DOS you had to empty the directory before you could remove it. But, if I understand correctly what your tree structure is, you can't do much damage by trying these from a Command Prompt:

del g:\image\*.*
rd g:\image

Other ways to speed things up include disabling indexing (Fast Find) for that drive, and disabling your virus scanner.

Yeah, I remember that two step delete dance. I'm not sure Fast Find is enabled, or even available. How do I tell?

- Jeff

Jeff
June 17th, 2005, 01:38 PM
They took DELTREE away from us, but RD /S can do the same thing from the CMD prompt. Let us know the difference it makes, would you?

You mean this, that I found when searching help for deltree.

Rmdir (rd)Removes (that is, deletes) a directory.

Syntax
rmdir [Drive:]Path [/s] [/q]

rd [Drive:]Path [/s] [/q]

Parameters
[Drive:]Path
Specifies the location and name of the directory that you want to delete.
/s
Removes the specified directory and all subdirectories including any files. Use /s to remove a tree.
/q
Runs rmdir in quiet mode. Deletes directories without confirmation.
/?
Displays help at the command prompt.

That sure looks like deltree to me. Why can't they leave well enough alone?

Jeff
June 17th, 2005, 01:40 PM
It isn't a question of how big but of how many files. Whether FAT or NTFS the system has to free every cluster of every file removed - so it's not the removal so much as the resurrection of empty space.

Right. But now having found it I'm going for the nuclear option; DOS

- Jeff

Simon Pallett
June 17th, 2005, 01:57 PM
As I recall, even in DOS you had to empty the directory before you could remove it.

That's what deltree was for ;)

Cheers,

- Simon

fhaber
June 17th, 2005, 03:14 PM
>Why can't they leave well enough alone?

You acquiring a love for rhetorical questions?

Dan in Saint Louis
June 17th, 2005, 05:24 PM
I'm not sure Fast Find is enabled, or even available. How do I tell?
Right-click on the drive's icon, Properties, General, near the bottom "Allow Indexing..."

Jeff
June 17th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Right-click on the drive's icon, Properties, General, near the bottom "Allow Indexing..."

Thanks. Found it, disabled it, and then waited for 20 minutes while attributes on all files on C: were changed. After what just happened with the DOS debacle I'm about afraid to reboot this machine; OS not found...

- Jeff

Jeff
June 17th, 2005, 07:22 PM
They took DELTREE away from us, but RD /S can do the same thing from the CMD prompt. Let us know the difference it makes, would you?

The good news: rd /s /q, aka rmdir the same, took 30 minutes instead of 90.

The bad news: in that 30 minutes it destroyed the target 4 gig "image" directory, and everything else on the drive. In 30 minutes it wiped 3 directories and 7 gigs of files. Gone. Nothing left. Nada. Drive G is clean.

As I sit here with my third Scotch the reason becomes painfully clear. Apart from appearances, XP's 'DOS' is no damned different from DOS Ver 3.2; 6.3 file names are all that is recognized for operations. It dir'd "HAL Image" as directory just fine, but then rd didn't recognize "hal<space>image" so it interpreted it as *.* and it did just that.

There is nothing left on my backup drive. I am not having fun yet.

fhaber
June 18th, 2005, 03:28 PM
>XP's 'DOS' is no damned different from DOS Ver 3.2

It's very different, trust me. For one thing, the NT programmers were younger, and hadn't used DOS a lot. They forgot some things, did others like VMS/UNIX, and made yet other things better or just different. Tread carefully.

For instance, and for safety, enclose all long file names in doublequotes.

Pre-scotch. I've been there.

Jeff
June 19th, 2005, 02:14 PM
>XP's 'DOS' is no damned different from DOS Ver 3.2

It's very different, trust me. For one thing, the NT programmers were younger, and hadn't used DOS a lot. They forgot some things, did others like VMS/UNIX, and made yet other things better or just different. Tread carefully.

For instance, and for safety, enclose all long file names in doublequotes.

Pre-scotch. I've been there.

Yeah, I guess it is different. Real DOS would ask with specificity before destroying something. But upon reflection (my first external HD) I now conclude that disabling writing back to Recycle on C (even via USB 2) would likely get XP to delete as fast as its "DOS", and apparently a lot safer too. Warning there: disabling writing to recycle on the external holds only as long as the external is on. It does not hold through power cycles, but must be reset each time that XP notices its existence. I am learning to double and triple check in this new world of fear and loathing of Redmond, after that DOS debacle lost a full gig of hard, if not impossible to replace files that were safely in "storage" on the external HD. I guess real safety is non-rewritable CD's now.

Dan in Saint Louis
June 19th, 2005, 02:28 PM
I guess real safety is non-rewritable CD's now.
I suggest that this (from an earlier message) is safe:

you can't do much damage by trying these from a Command Prompt:

del g:\image\*.*
rd g:\image

fhaber
June 20th, 2005, 09:51 AM
1. What Dan said.

2. You did try opening the folder you wanted to nuke, ^A highlighting all, then Shift-Del? That's *supposed* to bypass the recycle bin, but it hasn't worked 100% for me since ME.

Jeff
June 20th, 2005, 01:33 PM
I suggest that this (from an earlier message) is safe:

you can't do much damage by trying these from a Command Prompt:

del g:\image\*.*
rd g:\image




Thanks for the reminder. If I can't nuke 4gigs in a half an hour by disabling recycle I'll try your DOS route.

- Jeff

Jeff
June 20th, 2005, 01:40 PM
Disabling recycle on; from, external G is simple. Recycle, Properties, Configure independently, G, check the do not move box. You just have to remember to do it every time you need to do it. Only the setting for C is sticky.

jackofshadows
June 23rd, 2005, 06:23 AM
Actually you'll find that any NTFS partition is going to be slower in a delete than, say, a DOS FAT-16 or FAT-32 partition. The problem, and feature, here is that NTFS is what they call a journaling filesystem. Not only does it keep track of clusters, file allocations, and directory entries, but along the way it is keeping track of each individual change to the drive in a method reminiscent of double-entry bookkeeping. It notes each individual change to be made to the drive/partition, makes the change, and then goes back to note that the change was completed. For the *nix types out there the ReiserFS behaves similarly.

This is frequently a "good" thing since loss of power during drive operations usually results in no data-loss for which I am thankful as California in general, and Fresno in particular, aren't exactly reliable in the power department! However you pay a price when it comes to mass operations such as these.

Now for the remedy. I keep one drive/partiition that is strictly for backup purposes only (!!). When it comes time to delete the old files/backup, I just reformat the drive using one of my partitioning tools, since the built-in formatter is not only slow but likes to split the MFT for some unexplainable reason. Since any of the tools out there can repartition a drive relatively easily, and the formatter saves me grief anyway, I consider it money well spent. Just don't get something with a bunch of gee-gaws included (e.g. Symantec!). Some of the better ones can be found on the 'net for free or very cost.

Just my $.02.

Jeff
June 23rd, 2005, 01:41 PM
Actually you'll find that any NTFS partition is going to be slower in a delete than, say, a DOS FAT-16 or FAT-32 partition.

The external HD G where the delete goes on is FAT 32. I'm pretty sure that the extreme delay was writing 4gigs of files down a USB 2 wire to the Recycle bin on the internal NTFS C. Now that I know how to turn that off I'll try XP again on the next mass extinction. Ummm, is there some way to partition the FAT 32 160gigs of G, or the NTFS 40gigs of C without reformatting?

- Jeff