Using TAPCIS.COM Email's Outgoing Server

[Guerri Stevens]

I have one of the tapcis.com Email addresses and have been successfully using it with Thunderbird as my Email client. Today I got a new computer, with wireless capability. I downloaded the latest version of Tbird, and installed it, and with my old computer beside me, tried to set up Tbird properly.

I was able to receive my Email with no trouble, but I could not send any. I have a couple of theories about this: one is that the smtp server settings have to be different from what they were using dial-up service. Another is that the wireless operation is blocking use of the outgoing servers. Yet another is that the virus checker and/or built-in firewall on the new computer are blocking outgoing Email.

I experimented by using my old computer to send a message, so I don't think the server itself is down.

I have had slightly different results in the various attempts to send using the new computer. Most of the time, it doesn't ask for the password for the outgoing server, which usually it would do once, then allow the password to be saved. Once it did ask for the password, but although I told it to save it, it didn't. All the time, though, I get an error message saying "The message could not be sent because connecting to SMTP server smtpout.secureserver.net failed. The server may be unavailable or is refusing SMTP connections. Please verify that your SMTP server setting is correct and try again, or else contact your network administrator".

[Judy G. Russell]

Remember that you have a different password for the outgoing mail server. Check your private messages here for more info.

[sidney]

The message could not be sent because connecting to SMTP server smtpout.secureserver.net failed

If you are using an SSL or TLS connection to the outging mail server for security, that may be blocked if you have antivirus or personal firewall software that is set to scan outgoing mail. SSL sets up an encrypted untappable connection between the email program and the mail server. The antivirus or firewall software in effect tries to tap that connection to check the content of the outgoing mail. All it manages to do is to kill the connection.

Turn off any options for checking outgoing mail. You don't really have to be worried about that anyway. If you want a quick check, disable antivirus and firewall just long enough to see if that allows you to send mail. If one of those helps, then start looking for options to change short of disabling the whole thing.

-- sidney

[Guerri Stevens]

If you are using an SSL or TLS connection to the outging mail server for security, that may be blocked if you have antivirus or personal firewall software that is set to scan outgoing mail. SSL sets up an encrypted untappable connection between the email program and the mail server. The antivirus or firewall software in effect tries to tap that connection to check the content of the outgoing mail. All it manages to do is to kill the connection.

Turn off any options for checking outgoing mail. You don't really have to be worried about that anyway. If you want a quick check, disable antivirus and firewall just long enough to see if that allows you to send mail. If one of those helps, then start looking for options to change short of disabling the whole thing.
Thanks for those suggestions. I will give them a try and let you know what happened. My setting is "use TLS if available" which is specified by my Email provider, so one of the security/privacy software things on my new computer may indeed be causing the problem.

[Gary Maltzen]

My setting is "use TLS if available"There are TWO places where you can specify that:
(1) for each incoming POP3/IMAP server
(2) for each outgoing SMTP server

Note that SMTP server specification(s) occur at the very end of the account list.

[Guerri Stevens]

If you are using an SSL or TLS connection to the outging mail server for security, that may be blocked if you have antivirus or personal firewall software ...
I have it working now. I re-created all my settings, letting the outgoing server default to port 25 instead of port 80 which I was using before. This may be a coincidence, but Norton (which came installed on my new machine) listed port 80 in its scanning list. Since I couldn't figure out how to get rid of it to run a test, I can't be sure, but I am suspicious of what Norton was doing.

As soon as I have a little time, I am going to remove Norton from my machine. I have always disliked those products, once they went beyond the DOS stuff, which was useful and didn't get in the way. Now it is all to fancy, and too oriented toward trying to protect me from myself, with pop-up messages all over the place, and so forth.

(end of rant) Thanks for your help!

[Guerri Stevens]

There are TWO places where you can specify that:
(1) for each incoming POP3/IMAP server
(2) for each outgoing SMTP server

Note that SMTP server specification(s) occur at the very end of the account list.
Thanks. I knew about the SMTP server item(s) being at the end of the list. And I know that some incoming servers apparently want SSL. I think everything is working OK now!

[sidney]

I have it working now. I re-created all my settings, letting the outgoing server default to port 25 instead of port 80 which I was using before.

As an FYI, more and more ISPs are blocking port 25 from residential dialup, DSL and/or cable lines unless it is connecting to their own outgoing mail server. They do that to stop virus/trojan infected machines that send out spam to other servers. If you are configured to use tapcis.com's outgoing server, then port 25 may not be available in the future if your ISP decides to do that, even if it is working now.

Mail ISPs typically provide access via a port other than 25 in order to service people whose ISP is blocking the standard port 25.

I looked at godaddy.com's support FAQs and did not see mention of alternative ports to 80. If that is all that they offer, then if your ISP does decide to block port 25 you will have to find a way to get 80 to work again. I agree with simply replacing Norton with something that is more lightweight and less intrusive. The free AVG from Grisoft is good for antivirus. I don't have a suggestion for personal firewalls... My own solution has been to switch to Mac OS X and linux at home, and to make sure that the one remaining Windows machine is safely hidden behind the hardware firewall on our home network.

[Guerri Stevens]

As an FYI, more and more ISPs are blocking port 25...

I was using AVG from Grisoft on my old computer. The new one came with Norton, which I left in place until I could get AVG installed. We have just moved, and I wasn't certain where I put the AVG CD, but I've located a box which I think contains it. Of course, I could always download again.

Norton is *extremely* intrusive and is not very amenable to letting you set it up according to what you want or don't want.

I actually considered a Mac this time around!

[Dan in Saint Louis]

As an FYI, more and more ISPs are blocking port 25 from residential dialup, DSL and/or cable lines unless it is connecting to their own outgoing mail server.
That became reality for me several months ago, when SBC DSL began blocking port 25 to external services. Fortunately one of my Web hosts permits an alternate port, and I have found that by setting Thunderbird to use that my email procedures are transparent whether I operate from home, the College, or my moonlighting job.

I only hope that these other locations from which I operate don't start blocking THAT port, too!

And yes, I also have been quite pleased with Grisoft AVG. One study showed that it only slowed file operations on the HD about 20%, while McAfee slowed them by a factor of 22 (2200%). And so far nothing has snuck through it.

[Mike]

I looked at godaddy.com's support FAQs and did not see mention of alternative ports to 80.
Port 3535 should work, since that's what I use. <g>

http://help.godaddy.com/article.php?article_id=363&topic_id=167&&

That may require a GoDaddy login, so just in case, here's the relevant information. Note references to "Manage Email Accounts" page means the page for the domain administrator (for tapcis.com, it's Judy).
Using SMTP relay, you can bypass ISP restrictions on your outbound email messages.

NOTE: Before you set up SMTP relay on your email client (Outlook, Thunderbird, Eudora), you must first set up SMTP relay on your Manage Email Accounts page.

Once you have set up SMTP relay for your email account, you can set up your email client to use SMTP relay. Here are the general SMTP settings for email clients:

Outgoing Mail Server. smtpout.secureserver.net

Requires Authentication? Yes

User Name. This is the user name you set up on your Manage Email Accounts page.

Password. This is the password you set up on your Manage Email Accounts page.

Outgoing Server Port Number. 80 or 3535

[sidney]

Outgoing Server Port Number. 80 or 3535

I looked right at that and didn't notice it. That makes a lot of sense. I was surprised that 80 was the only alternate port, as that port 80 would be a problem in corporate or other environments that enforce a web proxy, or as in this case an overzealous personal firewall.

-- sidney

[Lindsey]

I was using AVG from Grisoft on my old computer.
I don't know anything about AVG, but the AV software that I use is NOD32 (http://www.eset.com/). It's not free, but it's not terribly expensive, and I have found it very unobtrusive.

--Lindsey

[davidh]

As an FYI, more and more ISPs are blocking port 25 from residential dialup, DSL and/or cable lines unless it is connecting to their own outgoing mail server.

Interesting.

I confirmed that by telnet into port 25 into Earthlink smtp and smtpauth SMTP servers via Earthlink dial up directly and via Netzero dial up. No response when blocked (by Netzero). Otherwise some text message or error message response when not blocked.

DH

[Judy G. Russell]

I don't know anything about AVG, but the AV software that I use is NOD32 (http://www.eset.com/). It's not free, but it's not terribly expensive, and I have found it very unobtrusive.I strongly second the recommendation of NOD32. I was the one who investigated various AV programs for our office and after working with and testing several, the overwhelming choice for excellent yet unobtrusive performance was NOD32.

[ndebord]

I was using AVG from Grisoft on my old computer. The new one came with Norton, which I left in place until I could get AVG installed. We have just moved, and I wasn't certain where I put the AVG CD, but I've located a box which I think contains it. Of course, I could always download again.

Norton is *extremely* intrusive and is not very amenable to letting you set it up according to what you want or don't want.

I actually considered a Mac this time around!

Guerri,

AVG (Free) has just been updated to version 7.5. Still works nicely, small footprint. If not it, then AVAST is a good and free anti-virus program too.

[Lindsey]

I strongly second the recommendation of NOD32. I was the one who investigated various AV programs for our office and after working with and testing several, the overwhelming choice for excellent yet unobtrusive performance was NOD32.
Yep, it was your mention and hearty endorsement of NOD32 some time back that let me to install it when the update subscription on NAV, which came with my laptop, expired.

It's amazingly fast when running a full scan -- much faster than NAV, even in the "check everything, including the kitchen sink" mode. And it doesn't slow things down to a near-halt when it is doing its automatic update.

--Lindsey

[Mike]

I strongly second the recommendation of NOD32.
And I'll third it. I've been using it on my two computers, and I find it to be the least obtrusive, yet it's effective. Compared to the way Norton tried to take over my machines, I'm thrilled with NOD32, and I've never needed support (can anyone say that about Norton?).

[Mike]

I was surprised that 80 was the only alternate port, as that port 80 would be a problem in corporate or other environments that enforce a web proxy, or as in this case an overzealous personal firewall.
Not to mention some ISPs that try to filter and/or cache traffic routed through port 80.

But port 3535 works just fine. I am surprised that GoDaddy didn't choose to use port 587, as most other ISPs have.

[Guerri Stevens]

Not sure where to put this, but on the off chance that someone else here uses Thunderbird ... I've noticed that when Tbird starts, it connects to the 3 accounts I've defined to attempt to collect any new Email. Oddly, the tapcis.com account which I've set as the default, is not the first to be processed, but that may be irrelevant.

Tbird checks Earthlink first, and I don't use that Email account at all except to receive its weekly or biweekly reports of endless spam. So I can't tell if that's working or not without logging onto Earthlink to see if there's mail there or sending myself some.

Next Tbird goes after my tapcis.com Email and it *never* retrieves any on startup. I have checked my settings and they clearly say to collect the mail on startup, check for new mail every 30 minutes, and automatically download messages. I.e. settings identical the other 2 accounts. I can use "Get Mail" and select that account and it will deliver the mail, so the settings are apparently OK, but there is something that causes it not to get mail on startup.

Tbird last checks my Google Email, which seems to work, but I noticed that AVG wasn't checking the incoming mail. That is probably an issue with AVG, and I have tried to correct it but haven't tested it yet.

My next experiment will probably be to delete the Earthlink account and see if Tbird then collects the tapcis.com Email properly. Theory being that something that goes on with Earthlink is causing tapcis to fail. I don't really need the Earthlink account and could just let the spam list messages pile up indefinitely.

[Gary Maltzen]

Thunderbird should check accounts in the order created; which should also be the order listed in the left pane. You can look at prefs.js to see the order of the 'mail.server.server#' entries.

I only specify automatic checking of my primary account - then work my way through other accounts. My accounts are all IMAP accounts and will time out due to inactivity.

I would suggest instead of deleting the Earthlink account you just disable automatic collection (startup AND periodic) from that account.