PDA

View Full Version : Major Crash in W98se


ndebord
August 17th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Well, that did it. Just suffered through the worst crash I've ever had in W98se. For the first time, for reasons I fail to understand, I couldn't repair it from my cloned backup hard drive. Short of fdisk/format, I could not find a way to make it work.

Kludge No. 1. I installed W2000 (FAT32) in a dual boot. I now have a dual boot where it boots in W2000 first, and the non-working W98se second. I'll have to delete the entry in boot.ini to get rid of the W98se info and then delete the entire C:\windows folder(s).

I have been busy reinstalling every little thing and now am looking towards doing upgrades to my original W2000 install.

Any ideas very much appreciated. (It just took me an hour to figure out how to get my cellular data internet connection working once again.)

:-(

Judy G. Russell
August 17th, 2006, 10:22 PM
I don't have a thing to offer except major-league condolences...

ndebord
August 18th, 2006, 02:51 AM
I don't have a thing to offer except major-league condolences...

Judy,

Thanks, I'll take that gladly!

Just managed to get all my browsers back, windows updates to the latest or almost the latest, my printer, my scanner (that one was hard), Office 2000 and a few other things. Much more to do and then figure out a new and different way to do backup in W2000 with my external HD (through the pcmcia slot).

Now if only I could figure out where W2000 keeps its path info and set statements. I don't think it is picking it up from the old autoexec.bat file, but what do I know?


<semi-grin>

Judy G. Russell
August 18th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Now if only I could figure out where W2000 keeps its path info and set statements. I don't think it is picking it up from the old autoexec.bat file, but what do I know?I have W2K at home so if there's something I can check for you tonight, let me know.

ndebord
August 18th, 2006, 10:57 AM
I have W2K at home so if there's something I can check for you tonight, let me know.

Judy,

Yes, environment variables. I'm looking for how W2000 handles set statements and path info. As I worked into the night last night, this is my first stab at it today, so perhaps my brain and Google will figure it all out first.

Second would be backup strategies. (a no-brainer, all things considered.)



<very weak grin>

Mike Landi
August 18th, 2006, 01:04 PM
What are the symptoms of the crash? Error message?

Mike Landi
August 18th, 2006, 01:05 PM
Right click on 'My Computer', choose Properties. Click on 'Advanced' and then 'Environment Variables'. That's where the set statements are stored.

Mike Landi
August 18th, 2006, 01:06 PM
Nick, I've fought and won many Win2k battles. Ask your questions!

ndebord
August 19th, 2006, 10:44 AM
Nick, I've fought and won many Win2k battles. Ask your questions!

Mike,

Thanks much. Lots of questions and some I've not thought of yet, but should be talking about if only I knew what to ask. Right now I only know enough to be dangerous, as we used to say!

I'll start by asking questions that are not really NT specific, but I guess could be classified as legacy leftovers. <weak grin>

First off, in terms of environment stuff, I'm trying to get some of old DOS tools to work in NT. Pretty successful with some, but not all. I have lost my favorite popup TSR thesaurus, but I knew from past experiments that would go bye bye. I'll try much later down the pipe to see if there is a kludge for that. But not right now.

I see two types of environment variables: user and system. Not sure of the difference, but will work in each as needed.

I don't see anywhere a pickup of settings (shown that is) from auotexec.bat, which is where I kept path and set statements in W98se. But when I run a DOS MENU* program via a pif file, all the ancillary programs work, so somewhere NT is picking up path info I believe.

In System variables, I see the following path statement, which translates into real world as c:\winnt\system32;c:\winnt;c:\Win..... (it doesn't show the rest of the statement as it is truncated here).


%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\Sy stem32\Wbem

I look for the tmp\temp folders

%SystemRoot%\TEMP

which translates into C:\WINNT\TEMP in the real world

In the past I used set path for TEMP and TMP to C:\temp, to remove temp files from within the windows folder(s). Not sure how to do that here since the language uses %systemRoot% in front of the actual temporary folder \TEMP.

Windows clipboard seems to be of a different format. This is an esoteric whine now and one that may have no solution at all. I used a macro in QEDIT to cut and paste dos text to the clipboard, which, no surprise, no longer works at all. I also used a DOS TSR called DOSCLIP to do the same kind of stuff when viewing text files with LIST. <weak whine>


* I run an old menu program called MEDLEY, from Jim Button Knopf, the father of shareware (and PC FIle). <g> It is from there that I tried to run DOSCLIP, then in Autoexec.nt, to no avail. Different format for clipboard probably.

But I digress. Backup is the next thing I should be spending time on. In DOS and WinNT, I used XCLONE, an old and reliable cloner. I think I should be looking at how to do a system restore and backup routine that is bulletproof or as near to that as I can find. Being unable to restore W98se was a nasty surprise. I have SystemWorks 2001, which means GHOST 2001 also. I also wonder about BOOT CDRs to restore the OS as a minimal kludge.

As a given, I have no idea at all about what I'm saying here of course!

======

P.S. forget about dosclip or QEDIT's copy and paste issue. I found a solution. Using a freeware windows derivative of list, called "lister" which I loaded up in a DOS shell on a hotkey. Works just fine, so I can forget about DOSCLIP for the moment and revisit it if this kludge becomes unworkable.

<weak grin>

Mike Landi
August 19th, 2006, 08:53 PM
I see two types of environment variables: user and system. Not sure of the difference, but will work in each as needed.


Remember that in the NT world (which is NT, 2000, XP and Vista), the user logs in to the computer. The operating system is separated from the user. The "system" environment variables are in a sense global. All users start out with those settings. The "user" variables are specific to the particular user you are logged in as. They can extend or override the system variables. If you are the only user of the computer, the difference is trivial. However, if you have others use the computer, the difference can be important.


I don't see anywhere a pickup of settings (shown that is) from auotexec.bat, which is where I kept path and set statements in W98se. But when I run a DOS MENU* program via a pif file, all the ancillary programs work, so somewhere NT is picking up path info I believe.


NT and its descendants use a file called AUTOEXEC.NT. You can find it in the \WinNT folder. You could put your settings there, or you could just add them to the user variables I mentioned above.


In System variables, I see the following path statement, which translates into real world as c:\winnt\system32;c:\winnt;c:\Win..... (it doesn't show the rest of the statement as it is truncated here).


%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\Sy stem32\Wbem

I look for the tmp\temp folders

%SystemRoot%\TEMP

which translates into C:\WINNT\TEMP in the real world

In the past I used set path for TEMP and TMP to C:\temp, to remove temp files from within the windows folder(s). Not sure how to do that here since the language uses %systemRoot% in front of the actual temporary folder \TEMP.


There is actually a good reason for those things. You are looking at substitution variables. "%SystemRoot" usually us C:\WinNT, but it could be F:\WinNT if you had installed Win2k in a dual-boot configuration with Win98. The idea is that the system variable does not need to be re-defined because the drive letter of the default drive does not happen to be "C".

Now, be careful of TEMP folders. WinNT and its descendants create a temporary file folder for each user. The location will be under "Documents and Settings". However, there is a substitution variable for the temp file location, "%temp". Use Windows Explorer and put that name in as the address and Windows will jump to the temp file folder.



Windows clipboard seems to be of a different format. This is an esoteric whine now and one that may have no solution at all. I used a macro in QEDIT to cut and paste dos text to the clipboard, which, no surprise, no longer works at all. I also used a DOS TSR called DOSCLIP to do the same kind of stuff when viewing text files with LIST. <weak whine>


In character based programs, what you are calling dos text, you can use the mouse to highlight text. Use the right mouse button to copy to the clipboard. Then, a right mouse click with nothing highlighted will paste. You can also get that same command (plus other goodies), but single clicking the small icon in the upper left hand corner of the dos window.


* I run an old menu program called MEDLEY, from Jim Button Knopf, the father of shareware (and PC FIle). <g> It is from there that I tried to run DOSCLIP, then in Autoexec.nt, to no avail. Different format for clipboard probably.


***STUNNED LOOK ON FACE***

My mother worked with Jim Button and she used PC-File until just a few years ago. You are the only other person I've run into outside of the IBM world who mentioned "Buttonware".

I do not know if his old programs will work in Win2k. My guess is that they will. I could try one if you want to send me one.


But I digress. Backup is the next thing I should be spending time on. In DOS and WinNT, I used XCLONE, an old and reliable cloner. I think I should be looking at how to do a system restore and backup routine that is bulletproof or as near to that as I can find. Being unable to restore W98se was a nasty surprise. I have SystemWorks 2001, which means GHOST 2001 also. I also wonder about BOOT CDRs to restore the OS as a minimal kludge.


Be careful here. You have to use a backup program that will either image the hard disk partition (like Ghost) or is compatible with Windows 2000. If you try something else, it may back up your files, but it will fail to restore the registry properly and the file permissions and security settings. Ghost is good, but get the latest version.

ndebord
August 19th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Mike,

ND>> I don't see anywhere a pickup of settings (shown that is) from auotexec.bat, which is where I kept path and set statements in W98se. But when I run a DOS MENU* program via a pif file, all the ancillary programs work, so somewhere NT is picking up path info I believe.

ML>> NT and its descendants use a file called AUTOEXEC.NT. You can find it in the \WinNT folder. You could put your settings there, or you could just add them to the user variables I mentioned above.

Which I've found in c:\winnt\system32, but no mention of settings leftover from w98se. So those settings exist somewhere else.

ML>> ...be careful of TEMP folders. WinNT and its descendants create a temporary file folder for each user. The location will be under "Documents and Settings". However, there is a substitution variable for the temp file location, "%temp". Use Windows Explorer and put that name in as the address and Windows will jump to the temp file folder.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that if I point TEMP and TMP to %TEMP instead of %SystemRoot%\TEMP, that in that way I would be replicating how I did things in W98se???

ML>> In character based programs, what you are calling dos text, you can use the mouse to highlight text. Use the right mouse button to copy to the clipboard. Then, a right mouse click with nothing highlighted will paste. You can also get that same command (plus other goodies), but single clicking the small icon in the upper left hand corner of the dos window.

I only found in Preferences Options for things like Screen Text, Screen Background, Popup Text and Popup Background and other stuff for Font, Layout and Colors.

As for the right mouse click thing, I assume you are saying that is for Windows Explorer. When I opened a file in my dos shell (Directory Wizard) and then List.exe, and right-clicked on it with my touchpad's right key, not only did it not copy anything, but I started to get that nasty warning sound from the speaker and the text on the screen started to scroll madly. Had to escape out of it and end task.

ML>> My mother worked with Jim Button and she used PC-File until just a few years ago. You are the only other person I've run into outside of the IBM world who mentioned "Buttonware".

I tried to talk to him back in the early 90s once, to thank him for Medley and its predecssor, Bakers12. It was right after his major illness and I ended up talking to a very nice woman who very politely told me he was very ill and couldn't come to the phone.

ML>> do not know if his old programs will work in Win2k.

Most definitely do work in W2000. I'm using it (Medley) now. And surprise, surprise, for some reason, this time around, I've managed to get both popup TSRS (thesaurus and speller) to work with QEDIT in W2000. Of course, I'm greedy now and want my dos text to windows clipboard to work also.

ML>> Be careful here. You have to use a backup program that will either image the hard disk partition (like Ghost) or is compatible with Windows 2000. If you try something else, it may back up your files, but it will fail to restore the registry properly and the file permissions and security settings. Ghost is good, but get the latest version.

If I were to image the hard disk partition using Ghost to my external, PCMCIA HD, I wonder how I could use it to restore everything if NT on the C: Drive went bye bye?

Could I make a boot CD with PCMCIA support and then use Ghost. Caveat. I have never, ever used Ghost, so am not sure how this image stuff works.


P.S. I notice that W2000 does not seem to have a safe mode switch in shutdown. I found this possible setting for BOOT.INI and wonder if it is of any use.

boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server" /fastdetect /SAFEBOOT:MINIMAL(ALTERNATESHELL)

This is what I ahve in boot.ini now.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINNT="Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional" /fastdetect

If it is a good idea to add a safe boot option, how would I change the boot.ini file?

Mike Landi
August 20th, 2006, 08:36 PM
'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that if I point TEMP and TMP to %TEMP instead of %SystemRoot%\TEMP, that in that way I would be replicating how I did things in W98se???


That should already be there as a default for the user variables.

I only found in Preferences Options for things like Screen Text, Screen Background, Popup Text and Popup Background and other stuff for Font, Layout and Colors.


Check the "Edit" option. That has copy, paste, mark, etc.

Remember that you use your left mouse button to mark and the right mouse button to copy or paste.

I assure you the dos text copy and paste works. I use it a LOT. <g>

As to Ghost, you should get the latest version and try it. I believe Symantec will let you try it for 30 days.

For Safe Mode, you restart Windows and when the first startup screen shows, where the dashed white bar is filling in as solid, press F8. You'll get a boot menu where safe mode is a choice (actually three choices).

Don't bother with the boot menu settings in BOOT.INI. That will slow down your boot time and not give you as many choices as the F8 command.

ndebord
August 23rd, 2006, 11:07 PM
That should already be there as a default for the user variables. Check the "Edit" option. That has copy, paste, mark, etc.

Remember that you use your left mouse button to mark and the right mouse button to copy or paste.

I assure you the dos text copy and paste works. I use it a LOT. <g>

As to Ghost, you should get the latest version and try it. I believe Symantec will let you try it for 30 days.

For Safe Mode, you restart Windows and when the first startup screen shows, where the dashed white bar is filling in as solid, press F8. You'll get a boot menu where safe mode is a choice (actually three choices).

Don't bother with the boot menu settings in BOOT.INI. That will slow down your boot time and not give you as many choices as the F8 command.

Mike,

Have yet to figure out the dos text copy thing on my touchpad, but I'll put that one aside for now.

Ghost or something similar sounds like a way to go for backup. Lots to study there.

As for Boot.ini, I already added Recovery Console to it and am happy to do so. Changed boot delay to 5 seconds, so am happy there also.

Found that Norton SystemWorks 2001 is a mixed blessing. With no ScanDisk in W2000, Norton Disk Doctor is an even better substiute. Norton's SpeedDisk however, wouldn't work right, even with upgrades from Symantec. Found this nice little shell for Defrag Called AutoDeFrag and it worked flawlessly. Believe it even shut down running processes while Defrag took place. Since I'm running FAT32, that was an option I wanted.

Still lots to reload and lots more to learn here.

<sigh>

heinz57g
August 24th, 2006, 07:41 AM
being a heavy WIN98se user, supervising at least 50+ units still running it, i am most interested
how and why yr system failed. none of ours ever have (but hardware) not being quickly repairable.
will need to read the entire post later tonight with a bit more time at hand.

meantime: re backup progs doing entire mirroring, pls have a look at CASPER (google).
simple, much more solid than ghost or anything else we tried, and affordable. and - never fails.
or before it possibly could, tells you so.

and a support that still knows what that word means.

one last question, maybe moot: why run a dual boot W2000/98se system anyhow? what does
98se not do that 2000 does sooooo much better?

greetings - heinz -

PS: N, did you put in the [LBJ] in your signature, or did Martha Gellhorn do that?

Mike Landi
August 24th, 2006, 09:03 AM
I've found no use for things like SystemWorks with Win2k or WinXP. I just don't find that they do much useful.

I would recommend moving to NTFS. NTFS has more features, stability and security than FAT32.

As to defrag, you do know that there is a built in defrag program in Win2k?

Gary Maltzen
August 24th, 2006, 10:27 AM
With no ScanDisk in W2000, Norton Disk Doctor is an even better substiute. Norton's SpeedDisk however, wouldn't work right, even with upgrades from Symantec. Found this nice little shell for Defrag Called AutoDeFrag and it worked flawlessly.In W2000 right-click on 'My Computer' and select 'Manage' - you will find 'Disk Defragmenter' as one of the left-column categories.
Alternatively open 'My Computer', right-click on drive C: and select 'Properties' then the 'Tools' page.

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 11:36 AM
being a heavy WIN98se user, supervising at least 50+ units still running it, i am most interested
how and why yr system failed. none of ours ever have (but hardware) not being quickly repairable.
will need to read the entire post later tonight with a bit more time at hand.

meantime: re backup progs doing entire mirroring, pls have a look at CASPER (google).
simple, much more solid than ghost or anything else we tried, and affordable. and - never fails.
or before it possibly could, tells you so.

and a support that still knows what that word means.

one last question, maybe moot: why run a dual boot W2000/98se system anyhow? what does
98se not do that 2000 does sooooo much better?

greetings - heinz -

PS: N, did you put in the [LBJ] in your signature, or did Martha Gellhorn do that?

Heinz,

I put it in the [] (sic, so to speak) to indicate WHICH Texas President she was referring to.

As for W98se and the crash, I do not know why or exactly how it came about, only that the end result (short of FDISK/FORMAT) was failure.

I am no longer dual booting, as I removed C:\windows, etc., entirely. Am totally over to W2000 (FAT32) now.

I will look at Casper. I do have Ghost and it looks like it would do the job, but it is now time to look at alternatives.

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I've found no use for things like SystemWorks with Win2k or WinXP. I just don't find that they do much useful.

I would recommend moving to NTFS. NTFS has more features, stability and security than FAT32.

As to defrag, you do know that there is a built in defrag program in Win2k?

Mike,

Yes, AutoDefrag is a shell on top of W2K's Defrag program. Won't be making the move to NTFS though any time soon. What I want works in FAT32 not NTFS.

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 11:39 AM
In W2000 right-click on 'My Computer' and select 'Manage' - you will find 'Disk Defragmenter' as one of the left-column categories.
Alternatively open 'My Computer', right-click on drive C: and select 'Properties' then the 'Tools' page.

Gary,

Yes, I saw that possibilty, but the shell wrapper that is AutoDeFrag works so nicely, I see no need to change it for now.

Mike Landi
August 24th, 2006, 12:29 PM
What I want works in FAT32 not NTFS.

You've said that before and I am still puzzled at what could run under Win2k w/FAT32 but not under Win2k w/NTFS.

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 02:49 PM
You've said that before and I am still puzzled at what could run under Win2k w/FAT32 but not under Win2k w/NTFS.


Mike,

A couple of my old PopUp TSRs were the issue, but they work just fine in FAT32 this time around and I'm not inclined to change what is working out.

Still got to figure out a backup routine that really works. Ghost and disk image looks like a way to go. Casper seems to be for XP, so am still looking. Vaguely recall that there was something mentioned a lot around here or perhaps CIS sometime ago, but can't recall the name of the program right now.

heinz57g
August 24th, 2006, 03:07 PM
N, where did you get the idea from CASPER is only for XP? it is rock-solid under W2000 (and the others),
and there is even a special version for W98se only.

somewhere on the left of the homepage is a klick for MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS, have a look there.

it costs nothing to check their test version, and a look thru their help and FAQ pages will reveal a lot about
them, and their philosophy. there used to be also a link somewhere to some computer mag's testing them.

greetings - heinz -

Gary Maltzen
August 24th, 2006, 03:14 PM
A couple of my old PopUp TSRs were the issue, but they work just fine in FAT32 this time around and I'm not inclined to change what is working out.I would have expected the only issue to be use of a non-NTFS defragger - which you have resolved. If they run at all, TSRs should not be FAT32-vs-NTFS sensitive; I'd be inclined to find replacement(s). ( download.com ? )

Lindsey
August 24th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Have yet to figure out the dos text copy thing on my touchpad, but I'll put that one aside for now.
Remember that <Ctrl-C> and <Ctrl-V> don't work in DOS. After you've marked the text you want to copy, you need to right-click on the Windows title bar, choose "Edit" and then "Copy." That puts the test on the clipboard.

If you want to paste text into a DOS window, right-click on the title bar and choose "Edit" and "Paste".

Come to think of it, in Windows 98, in order to mark the text in the first place, you need to right-click on the title bar first and choose Edit|Mark. Highlight the text, and then, if I remember correctly, you can press ENTER to copy it to the clipboard.

--Lindsey

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Remember that <Ctrl-C> and <Ctrl-V> don't work in DOS. After you've marked the text you want to copy, you need to right-click on the Windows title bar, choose "Edit" and then "Copy." That puts the test on the clipboard.

If you want to paste text into a DOS window, right-click on the title bar and choose "Edit" and "Paste".

Come to think of it, in Windows 98, in order to mark the text in the first place, you need to right-click on the title bar first and choose Edit|Mark. Highlight the text, and then, if I remember correctly, you can press ENTER to copy it to the clipboard.

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

I think I got it, although when I clicked on the title bar the first time I didn't see the title bar. Then I was able to paste to notepad.

<weak grin>

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 09:12 PM
I would have expected the only issue to be use of a non-NTFS defragger - which you have resolved. If they run at all, TSRs should not be FAT32-vs-NTFS sensitive; I'd be inclined to find replacement(s). ( download.com ? )

Gary,

I like this thesaurus and spell checker, like a nice pair of old slippers. <g>

ndebord
August 24th, 2006, 09:13 PM
N, where did you get the idea from CASPER is only for XP? it is rock-solid under W2000 (and the others), and there is even a special version for W98se only.

somewhere on the left of the homepage is a klick for MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS, have a look there.

it costs nothing to check their test version, and a look thru their help and FAQ pages will reveal a lot about them, and their philosophy. there used to be also a link somewhere to some computer mag's testing them.

greetings - heinz -

Heinz,

I got the idea from their website where they specifically said Windows XP, but I am glad to know they do other OSes too.

earler
August 25th, 2006, 01:58 AM
Simpler is to hit alt space, then 'e', then 'p' to paste or 'e', then 'k' and manoeuvre the cursor from the keyboard to what you wish to copy.

-er

heinz57g
August 25th, 2006, 04:50 AM
N, hello

>> I put it in the [] (sic, so to speak) to indicate WHICH

too bad. though it was a more general statement ... :)

>> CASPERS ... idea from their website where they specifically said Windows XP

yes, seems to be with many companies: the XP has to be in there for advertisement
reasons, though the progs very often if not in most cases cover anything from 95
thru XP. wonder if we all like to be fooled?

nevertheless, the prog (and their WWW help pages) is worth a try.

greetings - heinz -

ndebord
August 25th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Simpler is to hit alt space, then 'e', then 'p' to paste or 'e', then 'k' and manoeuvre the cursor from the keyboard to what you wish to copy.

-er

Earle,

Thanks much! That is even easier and I finally got it...what I'm supposed to do to make this stuff work. I'm as happy as a clam right now.

<VBG>

ndebord
August 25th, 2006, 10:38 AM
N, hello

>> I put it in the [] (sic, so to speak) to indicate WHICH

too bad. though it was a more general statement ... :)

>> CASPERS ... idea from their website where they specifically said Windows XP

yes, seems to be with many companies: the XP has to be in there for advertisement reasons, though the progs very often if not in most cases cover anything from 95 thru XP. wonder if we all like to be fooled? nevertheless, the prog (and their WWW help pages) is worth a try.

greetings - heinz -

Heinz,

Definitely on my short list. My old backup program was XCLONE, a DOS program that worked just fine under DOS and W98se. A separate utiliy, of which there are many, to make sure you had your config files up to date and everything was supposed to be just fine.

Ghost I have. Casper (the ghost) is next.

<g>

Lindsey
August 25th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Simpler is to hit alt space, then 'e', then 'p' to paste or 'e', then 'k' and manoeuvre the cursor from the keyboard to what you wish to copy.

Fewer keys, perhaps, but it's not simpler to remember.

--Lindsey

earler
August 26th, 2006, 07:57 AM
All you have to remember is the alt space. The menu presented is readable, as is the sub-menu. The letter to hit is underlined. I assume anyone can remember alt space.

-er

heinz57g
August 26th, 2006, 03:13 PM
N, i use XCOPY (and the extended version XXCOPY[16]) almost every day, in batch files with my DOS
computers. lovely progs, and rock-solid.

thats why i was looking for something equally solid in 98/2000/XP - and found it, so far, only in casper.

greetings - heinz -

ndebord
August 26th, 2006, 08:12 PM
N, i use XCOPY (and the extended version XXCOPY[16]) almost every day, in batch files with my DOS
computers. lovely progs, and rock-solid.

thats why i was looking for something equally solid in 98/2000/XP - and found it, so far, only in casper.

greetings - heinz -

Heinz,

I too used XXCOPY as the extension to XCLONE, which was my main backup program.

Lindsey
August 26th, 2006, 10:03 PM
I assume anyone can remember alt space.
Actually, no; I don't use it often enough to remember what the keystroke shortcut is. But right-click is pretty universal, and that is what is easiest for me to remember. (And in any case, when I am offering technical advice, I try to go for the more generic solutions. Any number of things can interfere with keystroke shortcuts.)

--Lindsey

earler
August 27th, 2006, 04:42 AM
I am a keyboard person rather than a mouse person, whenever it is practical and possible. Even at the age of 75 I can remember a few things.

I also base this advice from experience with my wife, who though very intelligent is an idiot when it comes to anything technological. Even she can remember alt space.

-er

heinz57g
August 27th, 2006, 07:01 AM
>> I too used XXCOPY as the extension to XCLONE, which was my main backup program

hey, feels nice somebody talking about that, and the mentioning of jim button, too,
who i had some long conversations with in the mid-80s.

basically, i have given up mixing computer generations: there are my sets of DOS
computers, then comes the group of WIN98se ones, and then the XPs.

no dual/triple boot, no nothing ... generations in between. and that works well and remains
solid. progs like XCOPY, PCOPY, TAPCIS, LIST, you name them, remain totally up-to-date
in the first group. and, overall, work better than most people would believe.

in some cases, i can for example with the help of 4DOS rund rings around somebody
trying the same result in XP.

and with the prices of 'old' computers being near zero, only the space issue is a problem (ask
my wife). transferring actual data/letters/lists is simple with so many external
possibilities that work on all.

greetings - heinz -

ndebord
August 27th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Heinz,

Would have loved to actually talk to Dick Button, but it was not to be at that
time. Love his programs and used PC File for years. Medley, as a low resource, script language configurable DOS shell is my all-time favorite and happily, it works very handily in W2000. A nice bonus. I've got everything I want working
now and the clipboard thing makes all the difference in the world.

There are a few kids around who enjoy DOS, but they have to be educated first, a problem since they seldom think any old people even know what a computer is, much less use one!

4DOS I used for years. For some reason, took it off my last machine and never loaded it back up on this one. Wonder about trying it on for size once again in w2000?

I'm thinking about picking up yet another old laptop...mainly for parts for this Compaq Armada M300, PIII-600, 12.1 screen, 3lb (with 2 lb expansion chasis) notebook. It is the best I've ever owned and I go all the way back to the original 2 FD (720k) Datavue Spark. (Never owned a desktop computer you see.)

Anyhow, will download the trial of Casper and try it out, after I look hard at my old W98se backup to see what, if anything, I want to copy back over to my C: drive.

Lindsey
August 27th, 2006, 10:21 PM
<shrug> I don't remember keyboard shortcuts I almost never use. I see no point in trying to memorize them, and in any event, I've never been good at memorizing things anyway. I find it much easier to remember fundamentals, and the fundamental things to remember here are that (1) right-clicking on an object will get you menu of choices related to that object; and (2) the menu you need is off of the Windows title bar object.

If you use that menu enought to warrant remembering the rather arbitrary keyboard shortcut, fine. But that's not a fundamental thing.

--Lindsey
(who was more likely to derive formulas on a math or chemistry exam than to memorize the formulas in the first place...)

ndebord
August 27th, 2006, 10:24 PM
<shrug> I don't remember keyboard shortcuts I almost never use. I see no point in trying to memorize them, and in any event, I've never been good at memorizing things anyway. I find it much easier to remember fundamentals, and the fundamental things to remember here are that (1) right-clicking on an object will get you menu of choices related to that object; and (2) the menu you need is off of the Windows title bar object.

If you use that menu enought to warrant remembering the rather arbitrary keyboard shortcut, fine. But that's not a fundamental thing.

--Lindsey
(who was more likely to derive formulas on a math or chemistry exam than to memorize the formulas in the first place...)

Lindsey,

Not to fret. I am happily using both methods, depending upon the state of my new found habit to copy text back and forth. It will take some time to make this automatic, but then the alternative was no cutting and pasting between qedit and windows and that was an unthinkable calamity!

<g>

Lindsey
August 27th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Not to fret. I am happily using both methods, depending upon the state of my new found habit to copy text back and forth.
Actuallly, that stopped being the question sometime back. Earle seems to be trying to say that you have to be stupid not to be able to remember <Alt-Space>, and I'm saying that's not the case.

--Lindsey

heinz57g
August 28th, 2006, 04:56 AM
N, re jim button: it was funny, i wanted to discuss and argue about PC-FILE, and all he always
came up with were questions about germany!

after PC-FILE, the other progs were always coops with other people like fluegelman, wallace,
norton and others.

you will like this here:

- http://www.sharewarejunkies.com/invjikn.htm

- http://www.freewarehof.org/sstory.html

back to the real world:

>> the clipboard thing makes all the difference in the world

if anybody is in the need of another perfect clipboard add-on, for WIN98/2000/XP though,
have a look at DITTO. another 'thing' i could not do without.

>> they seldom think any old people even know what a computer is, much less use one!

bad luck for them: we tried, no? after seeing so many people running into a wall having
disregarded well-meant advice (not neccesarily mine), i am beginning to be rather selfish
and one-sided on this. have an intense look at your own signature line ...

>> 4DOS ... Wonder about trying it on for size once again in w2000?

it is now freeware for most parts, but still amazingly well supported, incl numerous forums.

>> thinking about picking up yet another old laptop

do by all means. just touching it makes one feel good, then walk into a store and touch
the ultra modern new ones. all of a sudden, YOU will not feel that old at all.

>> will download the trial of Casper

also download there the W98 version, might come in handy some day too.

greetings - heinz -

earler
August 28th, 2006, 09:24 AM
I didn't say or even imply that stupidity is in question here. It is just easier to use ones keyboard than the mouse in cases as this one. Faster, too.

-er

Lindsey
August 28th, 2006, 04:45 PM
I didn't say or even imply that stupidity is in question here. It is just easier to use ones keyboard than the mouse in cases as this one. Faster, too.
Well, yes, I said it was easier to key; I just said it wasn't necessarily easier to remember.

--Lindsye

ndebord
August 29th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Well, yes, I said it was easier to key; I just said it wasn't necessarily easier to remember.

--Lindsye

Lindsey,

I am one dumb idiot. <sigh>

Managed to crash W2000 and as I had dithered about backup choices, had not even created the ERD. It was SpyBot S&D Teatimer that did me in as I had it running when I decided to update IE from 5.0 to 6.0. Teatimer refused to allow registry changes and everything went downhill after that.

Am back now and have created my first ERD. Will decide on a backup solution tomorrow.

(dumb, dumb, dumb)

:o

Judy G. Russell
August 29th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Managed to crash W2000Ouch. My condolences...

Lindsey
August 29th, 2006, 03:48 PM
Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

--Lindsey

Mike Landi
August 29th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Ouch, Nick!

I never thought to tell you my steps in installation of Win2k (or WinXP). First is to get all updates and patches in ASAP. Do not create an email account or install an other program until that is done. I figure that the bandwidth used in downloading and the CPU time installing the updates would choke (most) nasty hacks that would come by. That being said, I always operate behind a hardware firewall router, so the risk is minimal.

I never thought to tell you that, and I should have warned you that the upgrade to IE6 is a major, major[B] requirement for Win2k to work properly.

ndebord
August 30th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Ouch, Nick!

I never thought to tell you my steps in installation of Win2k (or WinXP). First is to get all updates and patches in ASAP. Do not create an email account or install an other program until that is done. I figure that the bandwidth used in downloading and the CPU time installing the updates would choke (most) nasty hacks that would come by. That being said, I always operate behind a hardware firewall router, so the risk is minimal.

I never thought to tell you that, and I should have warned you that the upgrade to IE6 is a major, major[B] requirement for Win2k to work properly.

Mike,

As it turns out, my overconfidence did me in here. And now, as I reinstalled, I've had even more problems than before. Can't get my scanner (Parallel Port) to work at all, W2000 won't recognize my CDRW drive (it insists that it is just a CD drive), can't get the internal win modem (Lucent) to work with my ISP (not that I use dialup, but it would be nice to use it as a backup to my pseudo-LAN T-Mobile Cellular connection through a pcmcia card).

It is truly amazing to me to realize how little I really know about W2000 and its drivers.

<sigh>


Having said all that, I do have most patches in place now and most of my other apps up and running. So not all is lost.

But I must get a backup or recovery system in place asap.

The IE6 thing was a real surprise and the biggest PITA I've experienced yet in this new world of W2000.

ndebord
August 30th, 2006, 10:10 PM
Heinz,

H>> re jim button: it was funny, i wanted to discuss and argue about PC-FILE, and all he always came up with were questions about germany! after PC-FILE, the other progs were always coops with other people like fluegelman, wallace, norton and others.

It is too bad I never got to talk to the man, but I have very much enjoyed his programs, not the least of which is MEDLEY. Truly the essense of shareware and open source owes a debt to him that I don't think they've plumbed.

Have never looked at Ditto, but will do so. Still don't understand what changes they made in clipboard to make my QEDIT macros fail (or DOSCLIP for that matter), but the new way is perfectly adequate to my needs.

Anyhow, might still pickup an old Armada M300 and will look again at 4DOS and Casper is definitely on my short list for solutions to my unexpected backup and restore problem.

Much thanks!

Mike Landi
August 31st, 2006, 08:46 AM
The CDRW problem I recognize. You need to install a driver to get Win2k to treat the drive as a RW. Try deleting the device from the Device Manager and then reboot. Once it is installed, install your CDRW software. That should do it.

ndebord
August 31st, 2006, 11:34 AM
The CDRW problem I recognize. You need to install a driver to get Win2k to treat the drive as a RW. Try deleting the device from the Device Manager and then reboot. Once it is installed, install your CDRW software. That should do it.


Mike,

Thanks, got that. I don't have the driver though, so will have to search for one on the net. (W98se saw it as CDRW and gave me no problem at all.)

ndebord
August 31st, 2006, 11:35 AM
The CDRW problem I recognize. You need to install a driver to get Win2k to treat the drive as a RW. Try deleting the device from the Device Manager and then reboot. Once it is installed, install your CDRW software. That should do it.


Mike,

Thanks, got that. I don't have the driver though, so will have to search for one on the net. (W98se saw it as CDRW and gave me no problem at all.)

My old PP scanner won't work either. Have the correct driver and installed the way they wanted me too (install software with device disconnected, shut down, plug in PP cord, reboot and voila (NO SUCH DEVICE).

<sigh>