9/11 Verbatim, the actual tapes

[ndebord]

The story of 9/11 verbatim from the air controllers and the military at NEADS.

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

[Judy G. Russell]

Can't do it. Not yet. It's still too damned soon...

[ndebord]

Can't do it. Not yet. It's still too damned soon...

Judy,

Can't do what? Read about this? My brother-in-law was there and ran for his life, the next door neighbor kid (only 21) was Cantor Fitzgerald and died. I know others who didn't make it, not so well, but knew them nonetheless.

You can't live in the past, a lesson I learned from 'Nam and from helping other 'Nam vets get their acts back together again...a process that in effect helped me get off the dime. What's that cliched saying? "Tomorrow's another day."

I firmly buy into that.

[Judy G. Russell]

I don't think I'm avoiding the issue. I give a lecture to my students every year close to (and this year on) the anniversary, and my website gets an essay posted every year. But I don't want to hear the tapes and I don't want to watch the movies. Not yet...

[ndebord]

I don't think I'm avoiding the issue. I give a lecture to my students every year close to (and this year on) the anniversary, and my website gets an essay posted every year. But I don't want to hear the tapes and I don't want to watch the movies. Not yet...

Judy,

If it helps, you don't have to actually hear the tapes...you can opt to read the transcript, which is what I did.

As for Oliver Stone's new movie, it has garnered rare (for him) kudos for its restraint. This from Newsday:

"This kind of heroism has to be told, people have to know what these men did," said John McLoughlin, the Port Authority cop played by Nicholas Cage, before the premiere at the Ziegfeld Theater. "You can't just say it's not time for a film yet and let that story disappear."

[Judy G. Russell]

I agree 100% that the story of the WTC has to be told and from everything I've read, Stone did it beautifully. And in a few years I'll rent the DVD.

[ndebord]

I agree 100% that the story of the WTC has to be told and from everything I've read, Stone did it beautifully. And in a few years I'll rent the DVD.


Judy,

One of the points, which has been made elsewhere, was that air defense only had four planes available, a couple F-16s and a couple F-15s to respond to the hijackings and of course nobody knew these hijacking were suicide runs, not the run-of-the-mill "we have demands" takeovers.

[Judy G. Russell]

One of the points, which has been made elsewhere, was that air defense only had four planes available, a couple F-16s and a couple F-15s to respond to the hijackings and of course nobody knew these hijacking were suicide runs, not the run-of-the-mill "we have demands" takeovers.Hard to believe we were so $%^!#$ complacent as to have had that little in air defense, isn't it...

[ndebord]

Hard to believe we were so $%^!#$ complacent as to have had that little in air defense, isn't it...

Judy,

Compacency after the end of the Cold War is a given. Both Bush I and Clinton removed squadrons of fighters and GWB did nothing to reverse that trend.

Add in that Cheney refused to allow NEAD to shoot down planes even after WTC and the Pentagon were hit. (Yes Cheney was running things.) With the removal of the transponders in all the planes except the PA one, there were too many planes in the air to sort out the bad ones and they had not yet decided to ground everything. They did remarkably well, in terms of their practices, within the limitations of the day imo.

[Lindsey]

Can't do it. Not yet. It's still too damned soon...
That's pretty much the way I feel about it, too. The memories of that awful day, and the days that immediately followed it are still too fresh.

--Lindsey

[Lindsey]

One of the points, which has been made elsewhere, was that air defense only had four planes available, a couple F-16s and a couple F-15s to respond to the hijackings and of course nobody knew these hijacking were suicide runs, not the run-of-the-mill "we have demands" takeovers.
I'm content with that summary, and the knowledge that there was considerable confusion among the people monitoring the situation as to just what was happening. I don't need to hear the tapes or read the transcripts to get that.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

That's pretty much the way I feel about it, too. The memories of that awful day, and the days that immediately followed it are still too fresh.I still tear up a lot -- half in pain, half in anger...

[Lindsey]

These days most of my anger is directed toward those who would use the pain of those days for their own political gain.

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

That, and the fact that they have wasted, squandered, all of our chances to really go after the people who really are responsible, and have created new recruiting opportunities for the enemy.

[Lindsey]

That, and the fact that they have wasted, squandered, all of our chances to really go after the people who really are responsible, and have created new recruiting opportunities for the enemy.
New recruiting opportunities -- and how. Robert Fisk, who lives in Lebanon, was commenting recently how angry he was at what had been done to the southern part of the country, and he was not even Muslim. I can't imagine, he said, how much angrier I might be if I were. And I'm not even in Lebanon, have no family or acquaintences there, and I am angry as well. Is it any wonder that support for Hezbollah is now up to about 80% in Lebanon. (Which I heard Alan "Let's Legalize Torture" Dershowitz claim on CNN tonight meant that Lebanon was not a victim but a collaborator, just like Austria in WWII. Why do I suspect that Dershowitz would go ballistic if someone used a Nazi analogy to make an opposing point?)

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

New recruiting opportunities -- and how.I saw today how India is sweating bullets over the risks within its Muslim community... tis has all the potential for setting off a chain of events none of us even wants to dream of... in our worst nightmares.

[Lindsey]

tis has all the potential for setting off a chain of events none of us even wants to dream of... in our worst nightmares.
The voice of prophecy -- it came very close to being realized, apparently.

Another voice of prophecy:

I turned to an American friend of mine tonight back in Beirut before I came home, and I said, “You know, I’ve been watching this now for more than two weeks, and there's going to be another 9/11.” There’s going to be another 9/11, and then we’re going to hear all the usual claptrap about how it’s good versus evil, and they hate us because we’re good and democratic, and they hate our values, and all the other material that comes out of the rear end of a bull that your president and my prime minister talk.

Robert Fisk, interview on "Democracy Now!" 31 July 2006
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/31/1435219

--Lindsey

[Judy G. Russell]

The voice of prophecy -- it came very close to being realized, apparently.All I can say is thank heavens for the Brits and the Pakistanis for uncovering this one beforehand...

[Lindsey]

All I can say is thank heavens for the Brits and the Pakistanis for uncovering this one beforehand...
Amen.

--Lindsey