PDA

View Full Version : Ouch. Literally.


Judy G. Russell
April 5th, 2006, 06:01 PM
There's a fairly long graded hill just before exit 15W on the NJ Turnpike northbound where a lot of the trucks have to down shift and slow down to make it. Today I saw the usual slowdown in plenty of time and took my foot off the gas, eventually hitting the brakes. The guy in the van with NY plates behind me wasn't paying the slightest bit of attention and plowed into the back of my car at 50-55 mph.

I am glad to report that the good doctors of University Hospital in Newark were able to assure me that nothing's broken ("just soft tissue injuries... and if you think you hurt now, BOY are you gonna hurt tomorrow").

I am also glad to report that there was a lot more damage to the van than there was to my car. But... sigh... I am now stuck with insurance claims and car repairs and all that... and BOY am I gonna hurt tomorrow...

Mike Landi
April 5th, 2006, 08:38 PM
OUCH!

Judy!

Seriously, are you okay? Why do I think you neglected to tell us how you got to University Hospital?

No kidding, are you okay? Forget the car, they can be replaced. I'm sure the a-hole who hit you will have an unhappy insurance company. Can you say "pain & suffering"?

Do you need anything? (other than a new car?)

Lindsey
April 5th, 2006, 10:00 PM
The guy in the van with NY plates behind me wasn't paying the slightest bit of attention and plowed into the back of my car at 50-55 mph.
Aiiiieee! That's not "ouch" -- that's

OUCH!!!

I'm glad you're not lying in a hospital in traction, but I'm so, so, sorry that you and your car got hurt. Take a long weekend off from work, kiddo, and just spend some hours soaking in a hot tub.

--Lindsey

ndebord
April 5th, 2006, 11:19 PM
There's a fairly long graded hill just before exit 15W on the NJ Turnpike northbound where a lot of the trucks have to down shift and slow down to make it. Today I saw the usual slowdown in plenty of time and took my foot off the gas, eventually hitting the brakes. The guy in the van with NY plates behind me wasn't paying the slightest bit of attention and plowed into the back of my car at 50-55 mph.

I am glad to report that the good doctors of University Hospital in Newark were able to assure me that nothing's broken ("just soft tissue injuries... and if you think you hurt now, BOY are you gonna hurt tomorrow").

I am also glad to report that there was a lot more damage to the van than there was to my car. But... sigh... I am now stuck with insurance claims and car repairs and all that... and BOY am I gonna hurt tomorrow...

Judy,

Geez, I hope they gave you good painkillers. Having cracked a rib recently, I can definitively state that it makes a difference. Hope all your injuries are minor.

As for that stretch of the Turnpike, I absolutely hate it I try to avoid going that way if at all possible.

Hope you feel better soon.

Judy G. Russell
April 5th, 2006, 11:36 PM
I got to University Hospital in a nice shiny ambulance, of course. Because I was complaining of neck and back pain, I got the great "joy" of riding strapped down to a backboard with a neck brace.

And I'm in some pain tonight but otherwise fine, seriously. I'm sure I'll be in serious hurt tomorrow (they say this sort of swelling injury is always worse the day after) and that's it. Even the car isn't seriously damaged, I don't think. (I'm taking it in tomorrow morning to be checked out thoroughly.)

Sigh... there's an old curse: "may you live in interesting times." I am waiting for my times to be dull dull dull!

Judy G. Russell
April 5th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Yeah, it's definitely OUCH in big bold letters. But I remember only too well your description of your auto accident, and this is verrrrrrrrrrry small potatos by comparison.

And the docs said only ice for the first 36-48 hours... which means the hot tubs all weekend.

Judy G. Russell
April 5th, 2006, 11:39 PM
They gave me some weird painkiller by injection that really worked (the nurse said: "this'll really sting, but it'll really work" and she was right on both counts) and some stuff to take at home. I'm really very grateful it wasn't any worse. It could easily have been.

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 01:01 AM
And the docs said only ice for the first 36-48 hours... which means the hot tubs all weekend.
Actually, yeah, I kind of figured ice would be the first order of business. It's just that a hot bath sounded so much more comfortable. ;-) (I hadn't realized it would be ice for as long as 48 hourse though. Yuck!)

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 01:07 AM
I'm really very grateful it wasn't any worse. It could easily have been.
It could have been horrible -- you could have been pushed into a behemoth SUV in front of you. (shudder)

Just out of curiosity: Do you know if the driver of the van was on a cell phone? I know those are illegal in New Jersey (or do you allow them with headsets?), but that doesn't mean people don't use them. Lately, every time I see a driver do something careless, a close look reveals that damned cell phone jammed up next to his/her ear, and the driver is usually looking in any direction except at the road.

--Lindsey

earler
April 6th, 2006, 05:04 AM
If I may say so, your error was not to touch your brakes a few times when you took you foot off the accelerator and not to have turned on the flashing rear lights to signal to those following you of heavier traffic ahead. Many accidents are avoidable and it is quite possible this one was, too.

This isn't to say the other fellow doesn't bear prime responsibility, only that you should have anticipated an idiot might be behind you. Touching the brakes a couple of times and turning on the flashing brake lights (until the traffic behind you slows down) are excellent ways of avoiding --usually-- the kind of accident you had.

-er

Mike Landi
April 6th, 2006, 08:28 AM
there's an old curse: "may you live in interesting times." I am waiting for my times to be dull dull dull!

You certainly are due for some boring times!

I hope you were given some useful pharmacological chemicals to ease the pain.

ktinkel
April 6th, 2006, 08:41 AM
. . . plowed into the back of my car at 50-55 mph.

... and BOY am I gonna hurt tomorrow...Oh, gee — sorry to hear about that. Very glad you are not seriously hurt, though days of pain wouldn’t be my idea of a desirable lifestyle!

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 09:19 AM
I hope you were given some useful pharmacological chemicals to ease the pain.Short-term only, darn it. These silly docs these days believe that Advil is the pain-reliever of choice!

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 09:21 AM
My sister the ex-paramedic was also surprised that they said ice for 48 hours. She said in her experience it's ice for 24, 36 max, then heat for comfort. But the whole deal with soft tissue injury is that it's swelling, and heat doesn't help swelling. Sigh... Friday night or Saturday morning at the very latest nobody else at my gym better want the hot tub...

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 09:22 AM
I can't say for sure whether he was on his cellphone or not. I do know that he was on it from the time he got out of his van to the time the state trooper angrily told him to shut it off...

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 09:23 AM
Anybody approaching a hill in the right lane on a truck route who doesn't know that he's going to have to slow down is an idiot.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 09:24 AM
It's not my idea of fun either... but it's so much better than it might have been.

ktinkel
April 6th, 2006, 09:46 AM
It's not my idea of fun either... but it's so much better than it might have been.Amen!

earler
April 6th, 2006, 11:32 AM
True enough. But, it would have been wiser to have done as I suggested. That might well have made him slow down.

-er

Mike Landi
April 6th, 2006, 12:18 PM
These silly docs these days believe that Advil is the pain-reliever of choice!

Tell them you drink a lot and need something that will not thin the blood. <g>

Mike Landi
April 6th, 2006, 12:20 PM
I can't say for sure whether he was on his cellphone or not. I do know that he was on it from the time he got out of his van to the time the state trooper angrily told him to shut it off...

Cell phone records can be subpoenaed. <evil grin>

fhaber
April 6th, 2006, 02:09 PM
OMG. Glad you're OK, if bruised.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Ooooh... I somehow don't think they're going to be terribly depressed.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 02:28 PM
I know, but I'm leaving this all to my insurance company. Fact is, there's really not enough damage for a lawsuit from my perspective. But there may be from theirs.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Earle, for pete's sake, get a grip. Traffic was not stopped. Traffic was not slowed down to a crawl. It was slowed the way anybody who's ever driven expects it to slow on a steep graded hill. Everybody else on that roadway, me included, kept a safe following distance and was able to change lanes or slow appropriately. And, you may recall, I did end up hitting my brakes so that I could slow appropriately. If this driver was not keeping a safe following distance, and did not see the traffic, and did not see my brake lights, it is not MY fault.

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 04:02 PM
I do know that he was on it from the time he got out of his van to the time the state trooper angrily told him to shut it off...
The guy sounds like a real piece of work. Gee, it would be interesting to be able to subpoena his cell phone records to see if the phone was in use at the time of the accident...

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Cell phone records can be subpoenaed. <evil grin>
Hah! I just posted a message suggesting the same thing. GMTA!

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 04:23 PM
turned on the flashing rear lights
I don't know what the law is in New Jersey, but in quite a few states, it is illegal to drive with the flashers on. Flashers are intended only for when your vehicle is stopped or disabled, and if you drive with them on, it confuses the issue. It also obscures when you are applying the brakes.

--Lindsey

earler
April 6th, 2006, 05:29 PM
You said that you lifted your foot, obviously to slow down because you saw traffic congestion ahead. If you had tapped the brake a couple of times immediately and also turned on the flashing of the rear lights that would have sent a clear message to those behind you. This doesn't excuse the guy who ran into you, but he might well not have done so if you had driven defensively, as everyone should. Defensive driving avoids accidents, even those that aren't legally your fault.

-er

earler
April 6th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Indeed such laws are the rule almost everywhere. But, turning them on a for a few moments is a good way of warning those behind you that congestion is ahead. I certainly didn't mean to say you should drive with them on, only as a signal to those behind you. Think about it. It makes good sense.

I've driven for nearly 60 years and have had only 2 accidents, both my fault. I have avoided other accidents, not only by driving sensibly (and, believe me, I do drive fast when it is permitted and is safe to do so), but also by the realization there are idiots on the road and those behind me are the most dangerous ones. For this reason I tap the breaks a couple of times and turn on those flashers for a minute or two to warn any idiots behind me they should slow down. It has saved me from ever being hit from behind. (I now touch wood!)

-er

earler
April 6th, 2006, 05:35 PM
I should add that though it wasn't your fault from a legal point of view, it is quite possible you could have avoided him hitting you by doing what I have suggested.

-er

rlohmann
April 6th, 2006, 06:34 PM
As Frank points out, the main thing is that you're OK, but you might want to rethink your assessment of the extent of the damage. The fact pattern you describe reeks of gross negligence.

rlohmann
April 6th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Doesn't fly.

Judy was paying attention to the vehicle in front of her, and hit the brakes when she felt it necessary.

I don't know of any country that requires in its traffic code that a driver observe and react to the actions of the operator of a vehicle behind her.

If you think about it, the implications of imposing such a responsibility are staggering.

ndebord
April 6th, 2006, 07:24 PM
I know, but I'm leaving this all to my insurance company. Fact is, there's really not enough damage for a lawsuit from my perspective. But there may be from theirs.

Judy,

Hmmm. Cellphone records....Hmmm. Retirement Planning. Hmmmm...justice!

JR>> Because I was complaining of neck and back pain...

How's that delayed whiplash? Really beginning to bother you now, isn't it? (You remember the first law of ambulance chasers! Pain! and Suffering!) Not to mention putting paid to a first class A*Hole.

lensue
April 6th, 2006, 08:05 PM
>There's a fairly long graded hill just before exit 15W on the NJ Turnpike northbound where a lot of the trucks have to down shift and slow down to make it.<

Judy, I've been over there but have never exited in that direction--nor now will I ever! OTOH there are many times I've exited the Turnpike going south at exit 15W in order to get on I280--that way it hasn't been a problem. I do hope you have no or at the worst only minor aches. Regards, Len

lensue
April 6th, 2006, 08:11 PM
>If I may say so, your error was not to touch your brakes a few times when you took you foot off the accelerator and not to have turned on the flashing rear lights to signal to those following you of heavier traffic ahead.<

Earle, I drive those roads all the time--it is not our responsibilty to hit the brakes a few times to warn other drivers behind us--I think you're out of touch here. Regards, Len

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 10:32 PM
For this reason I tap the breaks a couple of times and turn on those flashers for a minute or two to warn any idiots behind me they should slow down. It has saved me from ever being hit from behind. (I now touch wood!)
I've never been hit from behind, and I've never driven with flashers, either. So with just as much "evidence" as you have presented, I could conclude that avoiding using the flashers kept me from being hit.

You remind me of the guy in TAPCIS who once insisted it was my fault I was in an accident when I was no more than a passenger in a car that was hit by a drunk driver going 80 miles an hour in a 30 mph zone.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 10:37 PM
I should add that though it wasn't your fault from a legal point of view, it is quite possible you could have avoided him hitting you by doing what I have suggested.
It wasn't her fault from any point of view.

I know other people who would insist she might have avoided an accident by puting a "God is my co-pilot" token on her dashboard -- hmmm, or maybe a Jesus bobble-head. Yeah, that's the ticket.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:04 PM
There's no doubt there was gross negligence. Fortunately, there was minimal injury. I hurt, but nothing's broken and I'm alive. That's a Very Good Thing/

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:05 PM
The whiplash is some serious hurt, I'll tell you. But it could have been so much worse, Nick. I'm really very grateful.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:06 PM
If the injuries were more serious, I would do that, for sure. At this point, I just want to be able to turn my head from side to side... and get my car repaired.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:08 PM
Yep, yep, I could have avoided it... if I'd had a way to force the van behind me to keep a safe following distance, and a way to force the driver to pay attention, and a way to force the driver to see the brake lights when I did apply them. Yep yep...

Geez, Earle. Get a life.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:09 PM
The law in NJ (and everywhere else that I'm aware of) is very simple: any driver who hits another vehicle from the rear, it's your fault. Period.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:11 PM
The law here is simple: anybody who hits someone else in the rear is at fault. Period. No questions asked. The driver in the rear is legally charged with the obligation to keep a safe following distance and to pay attention.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:12 PM
More than minor aches, I'm afraid... but that's all. It could have been so much worse. I'm annoyed, but very grateful really.

Judy G. Russell
April 6th, 2006, 11:13 PM
Thanks, pal. I'm bruised, but definitely okay. I'm really very grateful because it could easily have been sooooooo much worse. Thanks to Audi for building solid solid cars, too!

Lindsey
April 6th, 2006, 11:51 PM
The law in NJ (and everywhere else that I'm aware of) is very simple: any driver who hits another vehicle from the rear, it's your fault. Period.
That's the way I've always understood it to work in Virginia.

--Lindsey

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:37 AM
Ralph, you and judy are lawyers and are reasoning as such. As I said, legally the other person is responsible. However, driving is a complex action. I am surprised there aren't more accidents, given the fact one must be alert and anticipate what others might do. In the days when I had a motorcycle I learned that intuition is also important. Sometimes the car in front of me had its right turn signal on, but I could see from how the car was being driven, that the fellow was an idiot and he was going to turn left! I became a better car driver from my experience on a motorcycle.

Not infrequently on an autoroute/autobahn/freeway, some idiot will tailgate me. Naturally, if there were a sudden need for me to brake heavily, that idiot might well rear-end me. So, when I see someone tailgating me I hit the brake fairly hard to startle him and to make him pull back.

Similarly, if I see congestion developing ahead, as soon as I remove my foot from the accelerator I touch the brakes a couple of times, and if it seems advisable, I turn on the flashers for a minute.

Now it is not impossible that judy's idiot might not even have reacted to such warnings, but most often they have their effect. Many, if not most, rear-enders can be avoided.

-er

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:41 AM
There are courses in defensive driving offered in many areas of the usa, including new york. They will tell you to do just as I have described. You and the others continue to argue from a legal point of view. Of course, legally, the van driver was responsible. I have never said the contrary.

-er

lensue
April 7th, 2006, 08:44 AM
>It could have been so much worse. I'm annoyed, but very grateful really.<

Judy, have you been to a doctor--this is sounding like it should be a legal case--what has your car insurance company advised. Regards, Len

lensue
April 7th, 2006, 08:52 AM
>The law in NJ (and everywhere else that I'm aware of) is very simple: any driver who hits another vehicle from the rear, it's your fault. Period.<

Judy, when I first got to NJ about 36 years ago I was trying to learn my way around--I was on rte 17 heading north and there was a traffic light--granted it was an obscure one out in the middle of nowhere in those days-- it turned red--I of course stopped but looking at the rear view mirror a large dump truck behind me kept going and applied his brakes last minute and swerved--his left back hit my right back and shook me up quite a bit and damaged my car. I got out and he got out and I held up my hands as if to say--what happened--did I do something wrong--he responded that it was completely his fault--he had driven this stretch of road for many years and that light had never turned red before! I'm lucky to be alive! Regards, Len [g]

Mike Landi
April 7th, 2006, 09:18 AM
I just want to be able to turn my head from side to side... and get my car repaired.

I suffered a whiplash when I was 11 and I still have some effects from it. I remember almost every moment of that injury and the months of recovery.

I very much hope yours is nothing like mine was.

Mike Landi
April 7th, 2006, 09:23 AM
The law in NJ (and everywhere else that I'm aware of) is very simple: any driver who hits another vehicle from the rear, it's your fault. Period.

That's my understanding of the law also.

I had a minor accident about 10 years ago. A young girl plowed right into the back of my 4x4. We pulled over and she came out of her car, ran up to me and yelled "You stopped right in front of me!" (Traffic was heavy and I had slowed down to under 10mph because *all* traffic was slowed down.)

After she yelled at me, I just stared at her. My insurance deductible was covered by *her* insurance company. <g>

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 09:47 AM
I think a whiplash to a child would almost always be worse than to an adult. There's so much more that's still forming and growing. Me, I'm just sore. (And sore at that dumb driver too.)

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Maybe in France things are different?

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Yikes! I'd have been scared to death to have a dump truck coming at me!

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 09:50 AM
And (gasp) you didn't tap your brakes and put on your flashers and her insurance still paid? What a wonder? [sarcasm mode off]

Frankly, I don't know of anywhere [except here, with one poster!] where the person who gets hit is ever blamed.

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 09:52 AM
Len, I didn't have any choice... when the trooper saw me holding my neck, he called an ambulance. I spent the afternoon at University Hospital making sure nothing was broken. Aches and pain I can deal with. A broken neck would have been ... very annoying.

lensue
April 7th, 2006, 10:20 AM
>A broken neck would have been ... very annoying<

Judy, really? How so? Regards, Len [diving for cover!]

Dan in Saint Louis
April 7th, 2006, 10:23 AM
Thanks to Audi for building solid solid cars, too!
Audi (and its German cousins) do build solid cars that protect the occupants. Often they do so by having an engineered amount of "give" built in.

In cars like ours, the underpinnings can actually bend (the center buckles upward) -- make sure your body shop checks that.

When I was rear-ended (BTW, eARLE, my brake lights were solidly ON at the time, and had been for over 100 feet) the only external evidence of the chassis bend was a little ripple at the top of the rear wheel well arch.

You may not even see it unless you kneel down and sight along the sheet metal of the rear fenders. That's definitely somemhing you want an experienced frame straightener to deal with.

Mike
April 7th, 2006, 11:22 AM
Lately, every time I see a driver do something careless, a close look reveals that damned cell phone jammed up next to his/her ear, and the driver is usually looking in any direction except at the road.
I watched a driver the other day (gender not to be revealed) yakking on its cell phone. One hand was holding the phone to the ear, and the other hand was waving in the air, as if the driver was trying to make a point.

The car was travelling about 35 MPH. Who or what was steering?

I'm glad I wasn't driving, so I could watch from a safe distance. <g>

Mike
April 7th, 2006, 11:33 AM
The law in NJ (and everywhere else that I'm aware of) is very simple: any driver who hits another vehicle from the rear, it's your fault. Period.
Indeed. When I was lived in Ohio, a driver cut in front of me, and then suddenly stopped, without brake lights. When the nice officer learned the details of the situation, he refused to cite me (much to the consternation of the driver of the other car). However, because my car hit hers from behind, my insurance company decided I was liable, and charged the accident to me.

A few years later, I was in a long line of traffic, when another driver cut in front of a vehicle several cars in front of me. We all slammed on the brakes. The cars in front of me hit each other, but I was just about stopped, when <wham!>, the car behind me hit me and knocked me into the car in front of me. Again, the officer didn't cite anyone, but this time, my insurance company decided that it was the fault of the driver behind me, and was ready to subrogate the claim. Fortunately, however, the owner of the car in front of me decided not to pursue a claim, so the insurance company had nothing to do. <g>

Mike
April 7th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I am glad to report that the good doctors of University Hospital in Newark were able to assure me that nothing's broken ("just soft tissue injuries... and if you think you hurt now, BOY are you gonna hurt tomorrow").
<sigh> I get super busy and can't make it here for a few days, and you go get banged up.

Seriously, pal, I'm sorry to hear about this, but I'm grateful it wasn't worse. I just wish you wouldn't give those MDs and RNs and PAs and other people reasons to poke and prod at you. <g> ...hugs!

ndebord
April 7th, 2006, 01:23 PM
The whiplash is some serious hurt, I'll tell you. But it could have been so much worse, Nick. I'm really very grateful.

Judy,

Grateful is one thing. Sitting beside a pool at a swanky resort and trying to decide between the white sand beach and the surf or the pool (and the pool boy) is another. Whiplash can be a gooood thing.

<wicked grin>

Jeff
April 7th, 2006, 01:23 PM
It wasn't her fault from any point of view.

I know other people who would insist she might have avoided an accident by puting a "God is my co-pilot" token on her dashboard -- hmmm, or maybe a Jesus bobble-head. Yeah, that's the ticket.

--Lindsey

Do I detect that some twit around here is happily blaming the victim?

- Jeff

ndebord
April 7th, 2006, 01:26 PM
Ralph, you and judy are lawyers and are reasoning as such. As I said, legally the other person is responsible. However, driving is a complex action. I am surprised there aren't more accidents, given the fact one must be alert and anticipate what others might do. In the days when I had a motorcycle I learned that intuition is also important. Sometimes the car in front of me had its right turn signal on, but I could see from how the car was being driven, that the fellow was an idiot and he was going to turn left! I became a better car driver from my experience on a motorcycle.

Not infrequently on an autoroute/autobahn/freeway, some idiot will tailgate me. Naturally, if there were a sudden need for me to brake heavily, that idiot might well rear-end me. So, when I see someone tailgating me I hit the brake fairly hard to startle him and to make him pull back.

Similarly, if I see congestion developing ahead, as soon as I remove my foot from the accelerator I touch the brakes a couple of times, and if it seems advisable, I turn on the flashers for a minute.

Now it is not impossible that judy's idiot might not even have reacted to such warnings, but most often they have their effect. Many, if not most, rear-enders can be avoided.

-er

Earle,

Hitting the brakes fairly hard is an instant invitation to an accident. Do as I was taught by the Michigan State Police. Left foot on the brake, right on the accelerator. Just tap the brakes to activate the brake lights, but don't slow down or the tailgating idiot will hit you.

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 02:19 PM
The car was travelling about 35 MPH. Who or what was steering?The Tooth Fairy? Harvey the Invisible Rabbit?

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 02:21 PM
Grateful is one thing. Sitting beside a pool at a swanky resort and trying to decide between the white sand beach and the surf or the pool (and the pool boy) is another. Whiplash can be a gooood thing. <wicked grin>Hmmm... maybe I'll rethink this. (Fact is, I'm betting large sums of money that the driver was uninsured.)

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 02:23 PM
Yep. You may not get ticketed, if the driver in front did something to negate your safe following distance (like cutting in front of you). But you're almost inevitably going to end up paying from an insurance standpoint. HOWEVER, in the second situation, where a driver behind you knocks you into the car in front, it ain't the same thing: the "sandwich" vehicle isn't held at fault.

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 02:25 PM
<sigh> I get super busy and can't make it here for a few days, and you go get banged up. Seriously, pal, I'm sorry to hear about this, but I'm grateful it wasn't worse. I just wish you wouldn't give those MDs and RNs and PAs and other people reasons to poke and prod at you. <g> ...hugs!Thanks. I am getting just a little tired of the medical types myself...

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:38 PM
Nah, there are poor drivers in france as well as elsewhere, though I do think the worst are in florida. For some reason, florida drivers won't use their turn signals and then there are those driverless cars on the roads of south florida.

-er

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:40 PM
I hit the brakes in such situations just hard enough to startle the guy who is tailgating. Obviously, I am careful to avoid being rear-ended. My sole purpose is to get him to pull back and not tailgate.

-er

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:41 PM
May I suggest you refrain from such personal attacks.

-er

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:53 PM
I'm not assigning blame here, only suggesting that you might have avoided this accident. The idiot who hit you is to blame, of course, and his insurance company will have to pay.

Here is an example of an accident that didn't happen. If it had I'd have been in my right, though my car would have sustained heavy damage and I myself might have been injured. In our village there an intersection of two highways. It is a blind crossing and one of the roads has the right of way; there is a sign meaning the cars in the other road must yield this right of way. Given the lack of visibility, however, when I am on the road with the right of way I slow down to a crawl as I cross the other road........just in case. Well, it was luck I did last monday because a car on the other road when right through the intersection without slowing down. I would have been hit. The other driver either ignored the sign or didn't notice it.

Many accidents can be avoided by driving defensively.

-er

earler
April 7th, 2006, 03:56 PM
Of course, there are times when one can't avoid being rear-ended and it was fortunate your car was car was well engineered.

-er

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 04:40 PM
I will certainly look for that, Dan, thanks. And yes, I was just thinking this afternoon how glad I am that I was driving the Audi. There was so much LESS damage to my vehicle than to the bigger heavier higher van, it's actually funny.

ndebord
April 7th, 2006, 05:25 PM
I hit the brakes in such situations just hard enough to startle the guy who is tailgating. Obviously, I am careful to avoid being rear-ended. My sole purpose is to get him to pull back and not tailgate.

-er

Earle,

Which is it? Fairly Hard? Or just hard enough?

Still not a technique that works as it slows down the car imo. I like the method I learned. When I tap on the brakes with my left foot, my right foot is firmly on the accelerator and most times when I look back in the rear view mirror I've managed to gain some distance between myself and the idiot.

Judy did everything right imo. It's just that the cell phone is dangerous to a degree that I've not noticed in the past while driving. I can't tell you how many times I've come up on a car in traffic in the left lane doing 10 or even 20 miles slower than everybody else, looked over and saw a cell phone in their hands. I've had more close calls recently than ever before and in every case where I've cursed the idiot driver doing something bad, they've been yakking away on their cells. Not good.

But I gotta say one more time, that that particular 15W exit off the turnpike to get to 280 is really dangerous. People come flying up the hill and when they go down the other side, the far right lane gets slow unexpectedly fast for those who are not familiar with it. I flat out won't take it, preferring local roads, but then I'm coming from Bayonne and know exactly how to avoid all the traffic jams that routinely clog the major intersections around here.

Lindsey
April 7th, 2006, 06:21 PM
The car was travelling about 35 MPH. Who or what was steering?

I have heard any number of reports of people being stopped by the police for that sort of thing, and they'll claim they were steering with their knees. Yeah, right, their knees ought to give them real solid control of the vehicle . . .

It also occurred to me this morning that the guy may have dozed off behind the wheel. That, too, seems to be a growing problem in the US. (And in that case, I doubt any amount of tapping or flashing would have gotten his attention. You'd have needed a blast from an air horn.)

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 7th, 2006, 06:47 PM
Do I detect that some twit around here is happily blaming the victim?
Seems to be a favorite sport in some corners of the conservative community these days.

I thought I was kidding about the Jesus bobble-head, because I just couldn't imagine there would actually be something so ridiculous, but later on I fired up Google, and damn if there isn't actually just such a thing -- different kinds, even -- check here (http://www.store.yahoo.com/bobbleheadworldstore/jesbobheadis.html) and here (http://www.bobbleheadstore.net/bobble/jesus.htm), for example. There's a Football Jesus (http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/jesii/305/), of all things. And finally, there's Dashboard Jesus (http://www.fadtoys.com/dashboard-dazzlers/jesus-dashboard-dazzler.shtml), who is not exactly a bobble-head, but he's mounted on a spring, so he's close. Call him a bobble-body.

In fact, I learned that there's a whole collection of Biblical bobble-head figures being offered for sale. One blogger went into a fit of giggles over the idea of a John the Baptist bobble-head. "Is that before or after Salome?" she wondered.

The Onion is beginning to look like an island of sanity.

I don't care if it rains or freezes,
'Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
I can go 100 miles an hour,
As long as I got the almighty power,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
--Don Imus

--Lindsey

sidney
April 7th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Judy, next time carry a few raw eggs in the car with you to toss back. If someone following too close gets a splat on their windshield it will startle them and force them to slow down real quick without blocking their vision completely. Works a lot better then flashing your brake lights when they aren't paying attention anyway.

Not that I've actually tried that -- I had my combat defensive driving training in Boston where it is more common to deal with a tailgater by doing a fast 180 and ramming them head-on. That slows 'em down!

-- sidney

ndebord
April 7th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Judy, next time carry a few raw eggs in the car with you to toss back. If someone following too close gets a splat on their windshield it will startle them and force them to slow down real quick without blocking their vision completely. Works a lot better then flashing your brake lights when they aren't paying attention anyway.

Not that I've actually tried that -- I had my combat defensive driving training in Boston where it is more common to deal with a tailgater by doing a fast 180 and ramming them head-on. That slows 'em down!

-- sidney

Sidney,

Speaking from experience (sort of), eggs work! Let me explain. Many moons ago I lived in northern Manhattan. Had a huge, rent-controlled apt. in Washington Heights and all was well, until the day the gas station next to me converted to a car wash and the exit was right next to my bedroom window. Every Sunday morning (early, very early), a beautiful Cadillac Seville pulled out of the car wash, parked under my window where the 2 guys inside lovingly polished their car for a long, long time with what must have been the highest quality wax. Unfortunately for my ears, they also played merengue with some truly impressive speakers. That 5th beat could drive a Saint mad.

One day, when the Summer had waned and they continued to serenade the neighborhood, of which many seethed and moaned and did nothing, I went to the roof, waited until they had nicely polished their Caddy and tossed 2 raw eggs over the edge. To say the music was loud before would have been a misnomer, for afterwards it was truly earthshaking. Of course I called the cops on the way down the stairs and complained about the loud music. Funny thing. They never came back to that car wash.

ktinkel
April 7th, 2006, 08:33 PM
Okay, enough palaver: How are you today? I do hope you are much improved.

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I don't think the driver in this case dozed off -- there was another guy in the van with him. So chances are pretty good they were chatting, on the phone or with each other...

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:26 PM
One blogger went into a fit of giggles over the idea of a John the Baptist bobble-head. "Is that before or after Salome?" she wondered.ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Judy, next time carry a few raw eggs in the car with you to toss back. If someone following too close gets a splat on their windshield it will startle them and force them to slow down real quick without blocking their vision completely. Works a lot better then flashing your brake lights when they aren't paying attention anyway.Oh great idea. I'm sure raw eggs inside the car will do just fine when the weather gets warm. Then it's not only the splat, it's the sulphur!

Not that I've actually tried that -- I had my combat defensive driving training in Boston where it is more common to deal with a tailgater by doing a fast 180 and ramming them head-on. That slows 'em down!I've driven in Boston. I'm not sure this is a joke!

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Funny thing. They never came back to that car wash.That's evil. Diabolical even. I love it.

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Improved, yes, and having a weekend to loll about will help. Sigh... I think my bosses are beginning to believe I do this stuff deliberately just to get out of work. Hmmm... maybe now is the time to hit them up with a work-at-home idea. I mean, I can't get into car accidents if I work at home, right?

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Ahem...

Mike
April 7th, 2006, 10:39 PM
Hmmm... if I could hire one of them to drive for me, I could spend my commute time working!

Judy G. Russell
April 7th, 2006, 10:42 PM
And think of the entertainment value if Harvey the Invisible Rabbit drove your car! At least every third (attentive) driver would run off the road! (The others wouldn't notice.)

Mike
April 7th, 2006, 11:18 PM
Oooooh, you're right! I need to have hidden video cams capturing their expressions! <g>

Lindsey
April 7th, 2006, 11:23 PM
I don't think the driver in this case dozed off -- there was another guy in the van with him. So chances are pretty good they were chatting, on the phone or with each other...
It certainly sounds as if neither one of them were paying attention, because otherwise the passenger should at least have said, "Hey, watch out!" The guy might still have hit you, but it at least wouldn't have been at 50+ mph!

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Wouldn't that be a hoot? I have dibs on the popcorn concession when we play the videos...

Judy G. Russell
April 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM
the passenger should at least have said, "Hey, watch out!"You'd think so. You'd hope so!

ndebord
April 8th, 2006, 12:12 AM
That's evil. Diabolical even. I love it.

Judy,

We aim to please!

<evil grin>

Jeff
April 8th, 2006, 01:17 PM
The Onion is beginning to look like an island of sanity.
I don't care if it rains or freezes,
'Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
I can go 100 miles an hour,
As long as I got the almighty power,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
--Don Imus

--Lindsey

I remember that from oh about 45 years ago. Yes, even back then 100mph was possible. Was there, did that, in a car (not mine) that had a "Mr. Christopher" medal dangling from the rear view mirror...

- Jeff

Peter Creasey
April 8th, 2006, 01:29 PM
I am now stuck with insurance claims and car repairs and all that...

Judy, If it hasn't been said before (actually I'm confident you know this but I'll say it just in case) don't concede to the insurance company that there are no lingering physical/medical claims until such time as you receive full settlement for your car repairs.

Judy G. Russell
April 8th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the reminder, Pete. Fact is, there really isn't any way to know for sure about long-term aftereffects... and I'll remind them of that!

Jeff
April 8th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Seems to be a favorite sport in some corners of the conservative community these days.

--Lindsey

I've just been told that just recently a twit hereabouts outed himself. Could that be true? I wouldn't know as I've activated the twit filter available here.

- Jeff

Lindsey
April 8th, 2006, 09:55 PM
I remember that from oh about 45 years ago.
Don Imus must have stolen it! (And I'm afraid Mr. Christopher has been de-commissioned...)

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 8th, 2006, 09:57 PM
I've just been told that just recently a twit hereabouts outed himself.
Well -- let's say you have been accused of a personal attack. ;)

--Lindsey

Pats
April 9th, 2006, 08:21 AM
I don't care if it rains or freezes,
'Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
I can go 100 miles an hour,
As long as I got the almighty power,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
--Don Imus[/INDENT]

--Lindsey

I think Tom Lehrer is the original author of this.

Pats


P.S., Lindsey, I'm glad you were not hurt after your car was hit, even though your brake lights were probably on (but not flashing: your bad) since you were stopped at an intersection.

Jeff
April 9th, 2006, 01:19 PM
I think Tom Lehrer is the original author of this.

Pats

That encouraged me to go look. Turn up your speakers as you read the lyrics and sing along. There's a fun story at the end too.

http://www.turoks.net/Cabana/PlasticJesus.htm

- Jeff

earler
April 9th, 2006, 04:11 PM
It's not tom lehrer's style at all.

-er

Lindsey
April 9th, 2006, 05:15 PM
I think Tom Lehrer is the original author of this.
You're probably right -- that does have sort of a Tom Lehrer essence to it, doesn't it?

P.S., Lindsey, I'm glad you were not hurt after your car was hit, even though your brake lights were probably on (but not flashing: your bad) since you were stopped at an intersection.
LOL!! Yeah, bad on me for stopping when the light was red! Actually, as I was approaching that intersection, the light had turned amber just as I was close to being at the point of no return for deciding whether to proceed or stop. And I was strongly tempted just to keep going. But I decided to be good (especially since the General Assembly keeps threatening to OK the use of cameras at problem intersections), and I told myself that getting pulled for a ticket would only make me late.

So I stopped, and I didn't have to slam on the brakes to do it, though I did have to brake pretty firmly. I wouldn't have been so surprised if someone behind me had hit me then, expecting me to go on through and planning to do the same thing on my heels. But there was nobody in the lane behind me, and I had been sitting there a good 5-10 seconds before I heard the brakes squealing . And my first thought (after "Oh, shit!") was "Am I confused? Was this not actually a turn lane? Was I sitting stopped in the middle of the street?" But of course, it was a turn lane, it just for some reason did not register with that driver that the light was red. I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet money he was on a cell phone.

--Lindsey

Mike
April 10th, 2006, 12:44 AM
Somehow I think this was a plot for an episode of Candid Camera. <g>

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 08:15 AM
Andf if it wasn't, it should have been!

Mike Landi
April 10th, 2006, 08:45 AM
I hope your soreness is going down now.

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 10:43 AM
The appraiser was just here. My "soreness" is going up. By the minute. Hidden body damage, frame damage, bent rear left fender in addition to the things I already knew about... WAAAH!

ndebord
April 10th, 2006, 11:04 AM
The appraiser was just here. My "soreness" is going up. By the minute. Hidden body damage, frame damage, bent rear left fender in addition to the things I already knew about... WAAAH!

Judy,

That soreness had better be your temper, as in you need to indulge in a nice temper tantrum to get this lousy thing out of your system (if not your neck, which I still think is a prime candidate for whipelash [and pool boys!].

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Truth be told, there's no doubt of whiplash: neck, shoulders and back all sore still. But I'm waiting to get the police report to see what the story is with insurance, etc. My guess still is that the guy is going to turn out to be uninsured.

Dan in Saint Louis
April 10th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Hidden body damage, frame damage... WAAAH!

Yep, that's the part that kept YOU from having hidden body damage<G>. Unless the car "gives" a little, the entire shock gets transmitted to the occupants.

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 02:47 PM
Yep, that's the part that kept YOU from having hidden body damage<G>. Unless the car "gives" a little, the entire shock gets transmitted to the occupants.I do understand that. And I am enormously grateful for having been in an Audi when this happened. Even the appraiser commented about Audi's safety record. But... but... but this car has been my baby! WAAAAHHH!

Lindsey
April 10th, 2006, 03:52 PM
The appraiser was just here. My "soreness" is going up. By the minute. Hidden body damage, frame damage, bent rear left fender in addition to the things I already knew about... WAAAH!
Was this your insurance appraiser? I'm looking for advice on what I need to do to protect myself from being shortchanged by the adjuster for the other guy's insurance company. I called them today to set up a claim, but it seems to me that I should probably have an independent appraisal as well.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Yes, this was the appraiser from my company. I always always tell my company when somebody else hits me (listen to me: "always always" when I've had exactly two accidents in my life!), and I usually carry comp and collision (unless the car is waaay too old), so it's their job to get it fixed and try to collect from the other driver.

What I would do is find out if your insurance company can do an appraisal for you, and I would certainly make a claim on your collision coverage "just in case".

Lindsey
April 10th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Yes, this was the appraiser from my company. I always always tell my company when somebody else hits me (listen to me: "always always" when I've had exactly two accidents in my life!), and I usually carry comp and collision (unless the car is waaay too old), so it's their job to get it fixed and try to collect from the other driver.

What I would do is find out if your insurance company can do an appraisal for you, and I would certainly make a claim on your collision coverage "just in case".
I called my agent even before I called the claims number for the other company, and she more or less said, "Why are you calling me? You need to file the claim with the other company." But maybe she was having a bad day, and I wasn't really sure what I wanted to ask, I was more or less depending on her to give me some advice, which she didn't seem terribly eager to do. This is the first time I've ever had to file a claim against someone else.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 04:39 PM
If you have collision coverage, and you probably do, your agent is an idiot. Maybe a bad day idiot, but an idiot.That's first-person coverage that you've paid for. Now tell 'em you want what you paid for. You will have to "eat" your deductible unless the other guy's insurer comes through, but it's soooooo much easier dealing with your own insurer.

Lindsey
April 10th, 2006, 10:55 PM
If you have collision coverage, and you probably do, your agent is an idiot. Maybe a bad day idiot, but an idiot.That's first-person coverage that you've paid for. Now tell 'em you want what you paid for. You will have to "eat" your deductible unless the other guy's insurer comes through, but it's soooooo much easier dealing with your own insurer.
Very definitely I have collision coverage! Uninsured motorist coverage, too; not sure about under-insured.

An adjuster from the other guy's company is supposed to contact me sometime tomorrow. But I very much want an independent assessment; that's the only way I'm going to feel sure I'm getting a fair settlement.

I really wish Virginia had no-fault insurance. :(

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
April 10th, 2006, 11:34 PM
UIM almost always rides along with UM; half the time the insurer doesn't even list it as a separate item.

DO tell your insurance company you want their assistance with this claim against the other insurer "so that I don't have to make a claim against my collision coverage..."

That should get their attention. At a minimum, they can give you the name of an independent adjuster who will give you the straight scoop.

Lindsey
April 11th, 2006, 12:01 AM
DO tell your insurance company you want their assistance with this claim against the other insurer "so that I don't have to make a claim against my collision coverage..."
Ooooh, I like that wording! And yeah, if they'd just give me the name of an adjuster, that would be great.

Thanks!

--Lindsey

Mike Landi
April 11th, 2006, 06:30 AM
Hey, cars can be fixed or replaced. Are they talking about totaling it?

YOU have the pain and suffering. Take care of that first. <g>

Judy G. Russell
April 11th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Good luck. It'll be interesting to hear how they respond!

Judy G. Russell
April 11th, 2006, 09:20 AM
Hey, cars can be fixed or replaced. Are they talking about totaling it?I haven't heard from the insurer post-appraisal yet. I don't know what they do when you have a car as old as this one (even though it's in excellent shape), but the private buyer value of the vehicle is about $6000, the trade-in about $4000... and the initial way-too-low estimate was nearly $2000. Sigh...

YOU have the pain and suffering. Take care of that first. <g>Unfortunately there's not a darned thing to be done except give it time. I hate this getting older bit...

fhaber
April 11th, 2006, 03:19 PM
Oh, bleep. You, too? Glad you're OK.

I don't think I'm going to jaywalk much this week.

Judy G. Russell
April 11th, 2006, 05:03 PM
I don't think I'm going to jaywalk much this week.That's probably a good plan...

rlohmann
April 11th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Does NJ have an uninsured-motorists fund?

rlohmann
April 11th, 2006, 06:15 PM
So, when I see someone tailgating me I hit the brake fairly hard to startle him and to make him pull back.I don't know what the law in France says about that, but you probably shouldn't try it in Germany. The way the law is written, a sudden, unexpected, and demonstrably unpredictable sudden stop or braking action may constitute a defense in an Auffahrunfall (a rear-end collision). This is a very fact-specific circumstance, and I doubt that too many tickets get thrown out on that basis, but it is on the books.

In any event, it's safer in any country to hit your hazard blinkers. They look like brake lights, but you don't slow down.

rlohmann
April 11th, 2006, 06:18 PM
I don't care if it rains or freezes,
'Long as I got my plastic Jesus,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
I can go 100 miles an hour,
As long as I got the almighty power,
Riding on the dashboard of my car.
--Don Imus
Yeah, well, that really only rhymes in places like Caroline County, Virginia. :)

Judy G. Russell
April 11th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Does NJ have an uninsured-motorists fund?Sure, but you only collect from that if for some reason you can't collect from your own insurer. (NJ is very big on first-person coverage.) And with the policy limits I have, there's no way I ain't collecting from my own insurer.

But I'm really hoping the guy has at least minimum limits coverage. That way I get my deductible back on both the property and personal injury coverages.

Lindsey
April 11th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Oh, bleep. You, too? Glad you're OK.

I don't think I'm going to jaywalk much this week.
Good plan -- there seems to be an epidemic of this stuff! :eek:

Thanks -- I am better off than Judy, as at least I wasn't hurt in the least. My car, though... <sob>

--Lindsey

Lindsey
April 11th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Yeah, well, that really only rhymes in places like Caroline County, Virginia. :)
LOL!! Yeah, come to think of it, you're right about that!

--Lindsey

earler
April 12th, 2006, 06:58 AM
Yes, I can imagine. But, as I said, I don't stop suddenly. I do nothing that would cause the guy to hit me. I do turn on the hazard lights as soon as I see that the cars ahead are becoming congested and those behind are still in the clear. A lot of people do this. It does avoid accidents.

Anyway, I don't brake hard ever because my bitch on the back seat would be knocked onto the floor and she wouldn't like this at all.

-er

ndebord
April 12th, 2006, 08:50 AM
Yes, I can imagine. But, as I said, I don't stop suddenly. I do nothing that would cause the guy to hit me. I do turn on the hazard lights as soon as I see that the cars ahead are becoming congested and those behind are still in the clear. A lot of people do this. It does avoid accidents.

Anyway, I don't brake hard ever because my bitch on the back seat would be knocked onto the floor and she wouldn't like this at all.

-er

Earle,

Yes, hazard lights are useful and I too use them when required. Yesterday, for example, a car broke down in the middle lane of I-78 on the approach to the bridge. A bad spot as people are accelerating from 4 lanes into 2 and this fellow was in the middle of at that point 3 lanes. ONLY ONE BLINKER working on the car and as I passed, I hate my blinkers on. As I looked back in the rear view mirror, I saw a couple of big SUVs swerve hard to miss that car.