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davidh
June 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM
Since this sub-forum, namely, the TapRoom, is billed a "for wide open discussion", I am wondering if the VRWC would qualify because it is "vast"? or disqualify because being associated with punishment in the dungeons and shackles (neither noted for wideness) of various castles or fortresses?

How about "corsets"?

Perhaps such subjects belong in section 8? So far this is mainly an academic question which I do not intend to pursue further.

D.H.

Judy G. Russell
June 3rd, 2005, 04:00 PM
I can't wait until Ralph sees this one...

Bill Hirst
June 3rd, 2005, 04:09 PM
I'm sure the VRWC dungeons are open to all.

Judy G. Russell
June 3rd, 2005, 04:40 PM
With plenty of gruel to go around.

rlohmann
June 4th, 2005, 08:41 AM
Since this sub-forum, namely, the TapRoom, is billed a "for wide open discussion", I am wondering if the VRWC would qualify because it is "vast"? or disqualify because being associated with punishment in the dungeons and shackles (neither noted for wideness) of various castles or fortresses?
The VRWC's network of dungeons, shackles, and informants is truly vast.

It is the thought processes of the Clintonites and their Running Dogs that are half-vast.

The Archconspirator

Gail
June 7th, 2005, 11:04 PM
The VRWC's network of dungeons, shackles, and informants is truly vast.

It is the thought processes of the Clintonites and their Running Dogs that are half-vast.

The Archconspirator

Well, you're wrong about the half-vast, as usual. Even my 3 year old granddaughter, Samantha, has that one straight. She just told me the other day that George Push is the President, that he lives in the White House, and that he drinks bisky. That explains a lot.

And remember when my grandson was 3 and he referred to Mr. "Push" as SpongeBob SquareHead? Three year olds have a knack for seeing things exactly as they are. :)

chm
June 7th, 2005, 11:11 PM
And remember when my grandson was 3 and he referred to Mr. "Push" as SpongeBob SquareHead? Three year olds have a knack for seeing things exactly as they are.

LOL!

That they do.

You guys won't throw me out for being a registered Democrat, will you??

Gail
June 8th, 2005, 07:45 AM
LOL!

That they do.

You guys won't throw me out for being a registered Democrat, will you??

They'd have to throw (at least) Judy & me out with you. :-)

Judy G. Russell
June 8th, 2005, 01:21 PM
I'm not a registered Democrat, actually. I've never, in my life, voted in a party primary. Living in NJ it's not terribly likely that I ever would vote in a Republican primary (can we say faaaaaaaaaar right these days?) but that doesn't make me a registered Democrat. I am truly an independent and have (in the past, before the GOP here turned to the dark side) voted for Republicans here.

Lindsey
June 8th, 2005, 05:11 PM
They'd have to throw (at least) Judy & me out with you. :-)
And probably me, too, though I can't claim to be a registered Democrat--Virginia doesn't register voters by political party.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
June 8th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Really? Are there no restrictions on who can vote in a party primary or is it an open primary? Could a voter vote in both parties' primaries on the same day?

chm
June 8th, 2005, 06:04 PM
They'd have to throw (at least) Judy & me out with you. :-)
Whew. : )

Actually, as to the *registered* Democrat, I've always been an Independent (in Illinois), but when I moved to California I had to declare a party to vote in the primaries. Apparently, this is no longer true in Calif.

So, speaking of Democrats, folks here, do you think Howard Dean, as Chairman of the Democratic Party, has gotten just a little too nutty of late?

I'm undecided. While I don't approve of his recent extreme comments (does he have to use words like "hate", "all", "everything"?), I am getting really tired of Democrats being wimpy and wishy-washy. Not to mention being more anti-things Republican than being pro-anything. Dean is not wishy-washy. Rather insulting, though. Dunno...

Carolyn

rlohmann
June 8th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Tell me, do they have any sweet sayings about Lady MacHillary, who is definitely not running for the presidency these days?

<sneering pleasantly>

rlohmann
June 8th, 2005, 06:28 PM
You guys won't throw me out for being a registered Democrat, will you??Gail certainly wouldn't, nor would any of the other subversives around here, but we here at the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy would prefer to assign you to one of our better cells in a fair-to-good-quality dungeon.

The VRWC:
Conspiring for you
Since 1992

rlohmann
June 8th, 2005, 06:33 PM
So, speaking of Democrats, folks here, do you think Howard Dean, as Chairman of the Democratic Party, has gotten just a little too nutty of late?Carolyn
Has gotten?

We here at the VRWC are looking forward eagerly to a Hillary-Howard ticket in '08.

Gail
June 8th, 2005, 07:55 PM
I'm not a registered Democrat, actually. I've never, in my life, voted in a party primary. Living in NJ it's not terribly likely that I ever would vote in a Republican primary (can we say faaaaaaaaaar right these days?) but that doesn't make me a registered Democrat. I am truly an independent and have (in the past, before the GOP here turned to the dark side) voted for Republicans here.

I stand corrected. Now that you mention it, I remember you telling me this before.

I am a registered Democrat and have voted in every primary since I've been old enough to vote. I have voted for the Republican candidate in the general election on occasion, however. Not often, and not for a very long time, since they've just gotten off way too far to the right for me. So far to the right that they're practically turning around and biting themselves in the ascii. :rolleyes:

Judy G. Russell
June 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM
they've just gotten off way too far to the right for me. So far to the right that they're practically turning around and biting themselves in the ascii. :rolleyes:
Same thing with the GOP in New Jersey -- the state that produced Clifford Case, Tom Kean and other moderate Republican leaders. The guy just nominated by the GOP yesterday for Governor is so far to the right he makes Attila the Hun look liberal.

MollyM/CA
June 8th, 2005, 08:56 PM
Don't you miss getting a lot of voter information? I finally gave in and registered as a Democrat (having noticed that when bush came to chove I always voted for Democrats, except for one year when things were so disgusting I voted with my feet) for this reason.

Mike
June 8th, 2005, 09:13 PM
...when I moved to California I had to declare a party to vote in the primaries. Apparently, this is no longer true in Calif.
Right. I'm registered non-partisan, but when I go to the primaries, I'm asked whether I want to vote for a specific party. Each party participating in the primary can choose whether to let voters not registered with that party to participate in the primary; generally the Repugs and Dems do.

Judy G. Russell
June 8th, 2005, 09:17 PM
So, speaking of Democrats, folks here, do you think Howard Dean, as Chairman of the Democratic Party, has gotten just a little too nutty of late?
Of late??? The guy has always been nuts. I like the idea of a party leader who will take on the other side, but...

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 12:11 AM
Could a voter vote in both parties' primaries on the same day?
No; if the primaries are on the same day (as they will be this year for the statewide elections), you have to choose one or the other. But if they're on different days, yes, you can vote in either or both. Any registered voter is eligible to vote in any party primary.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 12:17 AM
Howard Dean: I wish he would concentrate on pushing issues and drop the "yo' mamma" act.

--Lindsey

Gail
June 9th, 2005, 06:42 AM
Same thing with the GOP in New Jersey -- the state that produced Clifford Case, Tom Kean and other moderate Republican leaders. The guy just nominated by the GOP yesterday for Governor is so far to the right he makes Attila the Hun look liberal.

OUCH! That's a bit conservative even for many conservatives.

Our Republican gov isn't all that far to the right, but he's not someone that I could vote for - Mr. I Won't Raise Taxes (but he raised every damn fee that he could get his hands on, so we're paying through the nose for everything). Better he should have raised taxes - it would have been cheaper in the long run. Hopefully he will not be reelected.

Gail
June 9th, 2005, 06:44 AM
And probably me, too, though I can't claim to be a registered Democrat--Virginia doesn't register voters by political party.

--Lindsey

They wouldn't throw you out; you're a founding father. Er, mother.

Judy G. Russell
June 9th, 2005, 07:32 AM
This GOP candidate is also on a "I'll save you kazillions in property taxes" binge. Of course, he's not promising to cut services, and the state Constitution requires a balanced budget, so...

Judy G. Russell
June 9th, 2005, 07:33 AM
if they're on different days, yes, you can vote in either or both. Any registered voter is eligible to vote in any party primary.
Most interesting! Our primaries are always on the same day: first Tuesday in June.

chm
June 9th, 2005, 05:01 PM
Gail certainly wouldn't, nor would any of the other subversives around here, but we here at the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy would prefer to assign you to one of our better cells in a fair-to-good-quality dungeon.

The VRWC:
Conspiring for you
Since 1992
Dear VRWC:

"...one of our better cells..."

Can I have CNN, the L.A. Times [B]- and Room Service? And one of those little bars?

chm
June 9th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Hillary-Howard in 2008?

Yikes. What a pairing.

I hope the Dems can do better. Hillary or Dean is not so bad, though.

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 05:13 PM
This GOP candidate is also on a "I'll save you kazillions in property taxes" binge.
Is that the latest GOP mantra? The campaign commercials for the various Republican candidates in this race are all banging on the "lower property taxes" drum, even though the state itself has nothing to do with setting property tax rates.

--Lindsey

chm
June 9th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Yeah, this is the way I was used to it in Illinois. Was surprised to find progressive California being backward about this.

Yes, my new voter son registered non-partisan.

Speaking of Calif. voting, what did you think of that tablecloth of a ballot (it was huge) for that recall election? What a ridiculous election - I was embarrassed by it.

Then there's that upcoming election (IMHO, we shouldn't be spending our $$ on it) with its barrage of commercials from Arnold... And talk of Warren Beatty and Rob Reiner challenging Arnold for the next governor's race...

It's never dull around here.

chm
June 9th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Maybe my next pondering should be, can Dean, in spite of being kinda nuts (or, you could say, a colorful character? ;) ), be a good, effective Party Chairman?

And, if not Dean, who?

We've got some interesting elections coming up.

chm
June 9th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Howard Dean: I wish he would concentrate on pushing issues and drop the "yo' mamma" act.

--Lindsey
Dean is an in-your-face kind of guy, isn't he? I say understatedly.

I totally agree on the need to put the focus on issues. Simply insulting Republicans gets you where?

I like Dean, but I think he may have gone too far with what he's been saying about Republicans lately.

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 05:53 PM
can Dean . . . be a good, effective Party Chairman?
I thought about this very issue when I read one of the recent posts in the "TPM Cafe" portion of Josh Marshall's "Talking Points Memo" blog (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com). Let me see if I can find it again...yeah there it is.

The post is a comment on an antecedent the link to which is broken, so I don't know what the original discussion said precisely, except that it had to do with the stereotyping of what Josh called "the deeply religious" and making the point that this is politically counterproductive, "since it puts up a wall of alienation between Democrats and a lot of voters who probably see eye-to-eye with them on many bread-n-butter economic issues." And Josh goes on to make his central point in agreement:

"A deep cultural divide is now at the center of our politics -- something that wasn't always as clearly the case. And whatever one may think of the particulars of it, it is certainly a barrier -- almost an insuperable one in its present form -- to any sort of progressive change in the country.

"To rebuild a progressive politics in this country some way must be found to find a bit more give in the basic disagreements many of us have about life, society and morals." (Full post here (http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/6/9/11210/25356).)

And that's where Dean, in demonizing Republicans in general, is doing the Party harm, I think. He risks deeply alienating people who might otherwise be persuaded to support the Democrats over issues like health care and Social Security.

As to who instead: I was thinking John Edwards would certainly be a good one to reach out to that segment of the electorate, but he'd have to decide he wasn't going to be a presidential candidate himself in 2008.

--Lindsey

rlohmann
June 9th, 2005, 06:05 PM
And probably me, too, though I can't claim to be a registered Democrat--Virginia doesn't register voters by political party.That's OK. We know what you are.

<sneering placidly>

rlohmann
June 9th, 2005, 06:09 PM
Hillary or Dean is not so bad, though.<sneering contentedly and making appropriate notes in your dossier>

rlohmann
June 9th, 2005, 06:21 PM
Can I have CNN, the L.A. Times [B]- and Room Service? And one of those little bars?No.

(We did at one time play recordings of the collected speeches of Al Gore for the inmates, but Amnesty International got wind of it, so....)

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Most interesting! Our primaries are always on the same day: first Tuesday in June.
This year, both party primaries are on June 14th. I'm not entirely sure what state law says, but I don't think there's any fixed date for them--I think the state leaves it to the parties to decide. And they can decide to choose candidates by convention (or any other method the party sees fit to use) rather than by primary; that was the way the Republicans almost always did it until recent years.

I wish there was a more fixed date--then at least you know when to expect them. They always take me by surprise, because there's rarely any publicity about them until a week or two beforehand. According to what I hear on the radio, this is the first year since 1959 that both parties have held their primaries the same day (but as I said, the Republican Party didn't often hold primaries at all during much of that time, or at least that is my recollection).

Take a look at this blog post (http://gotv.blogspot.com/2005/05/election-day-procedures.html) -- it appears there will be much potential for confusion (and mischief). <sigh>

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
June 9th, 2005, 11:08 PM
Our actual voting system is pretty much the same, except for yellow and pink cards...

Judy G. Russell
June 9th, 2005, 11:10 PM
It's the mantra here this year, but there are ways the state can affect property taxes, like giving more of the income and sales tax money back... It's a shell game in reality. You cannot run a government free. Period.

Judy G. Russell
June 9th, 2005, 11:11 PM
He certainly can be colorful. Whether he can be effective...? Well, let's just say I have extremely serious doubts.

Lindsey
June 9th, 2005, 11:25 PM
A shell game--yes, that's only too true. We're still trying to recover from Jim Gilmore's grandiose promise to get rid of personal property taxes. It was a popular enough promise that it won him the governorship, but in the end, there wasn't enough money to pay for it, and we're stuck part way through a phase-out which from this point forward is only going to cost taxpayers more and more, because the General Assembly put an absolute dollar cap on the amount they would rebate to the localities to compensate for "abolishing" the tax, and as car prices continue to rise, the taxpayers have to make up the difference. (Frankly, I haven't noticed that I'm paying any less than I ever did.)

--Lindsey

chm
June 10th, 2005, 03:13 PM
And that's where Dean, in demonizing Republicans in general, is doing the Party harm, I think. He risks deeply alienating people who might otherwise be persuaded to support the Democrats over issues like health care and Social Security.

Absolutely. I'll add another issue and value we all share: education

As for John Edwards, he's a good guy (and much calmer) and has more appeal to "the blue states", but it seems likely he'll run for president.

A good article in the L.A. Times today on this subject (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dean10jun10,0,5308718.story?page=2&coll=la-home-nation)
This quote from the article pretty much sums up the possible problem with Dean:

"So instead of talking about their [the Democrats'] best issues, they're talking about their loose cannon.

"He's throwing them off message."

Carolyn

chm
June 10th, 2005, 03:16 PM
LOL

:confused: What, not even a bar?!

Carolyn

Judy G. Russell
June 10th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Frankly, I haven't noticed that I'm paying any less than I ever did.
That's true of most of these sorts of things: but what they really want is that you don't notice that you're really paying more, just in different ways.

RayB (France)
July 4th, 2005, 04:50 AM
Of late??? The guy has always been nuts. I like the idea of a party leader who will take on the other side, but...

'We' like him right where he is.

chrishays
July 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM
I spoke to one signature gatherer who confessed he was getting about $7 per signature. So much for the people having a voice.

Judy G. Russell
July 4th, 2005, 11:47 AM
I'm sure you do. Just as "we" liked Trent Lott speaking out for the GOP...

chrishays
July 4th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Ok, I gotta stick up for Howard here. First, the media demonized him in that "screaming" incident. What nobody told you (except ABC news who was the only news organization to at least TRY to set the record straight), is that the only microphone that was active on the pool was Howard's, and he was yelling to be heard over the screaming crowd!!! Diane Sawyer when she did the ABC 'correction' played audio from another camera that was just in the room. You couldn't even hear Howard there was so much noise in the room. This is terribly unfair!!! The media has become a tool of the Republican party and they do whatever the republicans want. That 'scream' clip has been replayed on all the talk shows over and over, and has created the image that Howard is nuts. Nothing can be further from the truth. He's an MD and one of the brightest men in our party. I will admit that his "attacks" are a bit out there, but they are pretty benign compared to the pundits filth on the other side. I think what you are seeing in the Democratic party is the attitude that (to borrow a phrase) "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more!"

People look for leaders. I think we have one in Howard. Let the games begin!

chm
July 6th, 2005, 07:52 PM
I spoke to one signature gatherer who confessed he was getting about $7 per signature. So much for the people having a voice.
Yes, this is true. Many of these "gatherers" are just in it for the money.

Two special elections in how many years? Not good.

Carolyn

Mike
July 7th, 2005, 02:47 AM
Speaking of Calif. voting, what did you think of that tablecloth of a ballot (it was huge) for that recall election? What a ridiculous election
While I wasn't particularly a fan of Gray Davis, I was dismayed by the whole process. I really don't think Ahnold and his handlers would have made any better decisions during previous year.

Then there's that upcoming election (IMHO, we shouldn't be spending our $$ on it) with its barrage of commercials from Arnold... And talk of Warren Beatty and Rob Reiner challenging Arnold for the next governor's race...
The threat did seem to energize the Assembly and Senate to work on the budget. I'm not sure the result is any different, however.

And you know those celebrities. Once one of them does something, everyone else has to follow suit.

chm
July 8th, 2005, 02:07 PM
And you know those celebrities. Once one of them does something, everyone else has to follow suit.

For sure. Remember some of those on that huge recall ballot? That porno queen, also Gary Coleman, Gallagher...

As to energizing and budgets... Yes, there was some energizing going on. It was the Democrats/the state legislators who most wanted the budget in (almost) on time, so as to position themselves well regarding the special election, making it harder for Arnold and the Republicans to say, See, I told you so, the Dems/state legislators don't have their act together.

Whatever, we the people of California were better off for it.

Lindsey
July 8th, 2005, 11:37 PM
That porno queen...
Mary Carey--who is now planning to run for Lieutenant Governor. She's now a dues-paying (literally) Republican: she and her adult-film boss recently paid $5000 each to attend a the President's Dinner (a GOP fund raiser) in Washington a couple of weeks ago. "Countdown" had a running joke about it, and "The Daily Show" had an hysterical interview: Click on the "Popping the Big Tent" video here (http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/stephen_colbert/index.jhtml).

"I'm hoping to run as lieutenant governor of California next year," Carey said. "Since Arnold [Schwarzenegger] is a Republican, I thought this dinner would be a great networking opportunity for me."

"I'm especially looking forward to meeting Karl Rove," Carey added. "Smart men like him are so sexy. I know that he's against gay marriage, but I think I can convince him that a little girl-on-girl action now and then isn't so bad!"

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44376

--Lindsey

RayB (France)
July 9th, 2005, 02:55 AM
I'm sure you do. Just as "we" liked Trent Lott speaking out for the GOP...

Understood but I still wouldn't want to trade you.

Judy G. Russell
July 9th, 2005, 07:02 AM
Dear Lord, we wouldn't take the trade! Sorry, but even a looney New Englander beats out a Mississippi racist.

Mike
July 15th, 2005, 03:28 AM
Hmmm... consider the source of the comments.

chm
July 15th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Lindsey, I missed this earlier somehow. Sorry about that.

Mary Carey as Lt. Guv?!

Ewwww.

Wait a minute, this will boggle the Republican minds badly here in SoCal: Family Values vs. Mary Carey? Mary Carey vs. Democratic candidate? And so on.

In sum, in addition to extra California elections, I am even more sick of elections that are circuses. I'm still getting over 2000, as well as Arnold's election.

Lindsey
July 15th, 2005, 10:05 PM
Hmmm... consider the source of the comments.
Which comments?

--Lindsey

Lindsey
July 15th, 2005, 10:08 PM
Mary Carey as Lt. Guv?!

Ewwww.
Mary Carey + Arnold would be quite a team, no? :p

Wait a minute, this will boggle the Republican minds badly here in SoCal: Family Values vs. Mary Carey? Mary Carey vs. Democratic candidate? And so on.
Be sure you don't miss that video clip from Jon Stewart's "Daily Show."

--Lindsey

Mike
July 15th, 2005, 10:39 PM
The quotations from WorldNewsDaily.

chm
July 16th, 2005, 04:18 PM
Mary Carey + Arnold would be quite a team, no? :p


Be sure you don't miss that video clip from Jon Stewart's "Daily Show."

--Lindsey
Thanks for the tip.

I love Jon Stewart and his "Daily Show." We cut down our cable so we no longer get to watch it. BUT, yes, there are those "Daily Show" videos available on the Web. I'll be sure to catch this one.

Carolyn

Lindsey
July 16th, 2005, 09:46 PM
The quotations from WorldNewsDaily.
I don't quite understand what you're getting at, but those remarks are pretty much in line with the videotapes that were shown on Countdown and The Daily Show.

--Lindsey

Mike
July 17th, 2005, 07:32 PM
WorldNetDaily has a conservative agenda.

Wayne Scott
July 17th, 2005, 07:41 PM
You go, girl.

Lindsey
July 17th, 2005, 09:50 PM
WorldNetDaily has a conservative agenda.
And this is significant because...?

--Lindsey