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Lindsey
February 5th, 2006, 11:08 PM
I know I will be denounced for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway:

Am I the only one who detects a faint whiff of Stalinism in the directives that are being sent down to NASA scientists from the agency's political appointees, as described in this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) in the NY Times?

It's becoming plainer and plainer to me every day just how it happened that Bush took such an instant liking to Vladimir Putin. :(

--Lindsey

lensue
February 6th, 2006, 08:23 AM
>Am I the only one who detects a faint whiff of Stalinism <

Lindsey, do you think in Stalin's time an article like this one could have been printed.

To me the Times first paragraph seems encouraging: "A week after NASA's top climate scientist complained that the space agency's public-affairs office was trying to silence his statements on global warming, the agency's administrator, Michael D. Griffin, issued a sharply worded statement yesterday calling for "scientific openness" throughout the agency. " Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
February 6th, 2006, 11:10 AM
The "do not disagree with me" directives in all of the agencies of this administration have been deeply distressing. NASA is just one of the more recent ones.

mshefler
February 6th, 2006, 02:54 PM
We are at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Oceania. Do not question Big Brother.

Lindsey
February 6th, 2006, 06:41 PM
To me the Times first paragraph seems encouraging
The statement never should have been necessary in the first place, Len, and why is it the administrator issued it only AFTER somebody risked his career and went public?

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 6th, 2006, 06:49 PM
The "do not disagree with me" directives in all of the agencies of this administration have been deeply distressing. NASA is just one of the more recent ones.
Yes; I believe CDC has received the same sort of treatment. And we all know about EPA. Even the National Park Service has come under pressure from the creationists to sell creationist literature in the gift shop at the Grand Canyon.

It's a sad thing when it comes down to the point that you can't afford to believe anything you see on a government-sponsored web site, or hear from the lips of a government official.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 6th, 2006, 06:51 PM
We are at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Oceania. Do not question Big Brother.
I have thought about George Orwell so many times in the last few years. :(

--Lindsey

lensue
February 6th, 2006, 09:23 PM
>why is it the administrator issued it only AFTER somebody risked his career and went public?<

Lindsey, you may have a point there but it sure is alot different that life under Stalin! Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
February 6th, 2006, 10:41 PM
I've never believed what I heard from government officials... but I guess I've always expected a little better when they put it in writing.

Lindsey
February 6th, 2006, 10:53 PM
Lindsey, you may have a point there but it sure is alot different that life under Stalin! Regards, Len
I didn't say we were living in a Stalinist world -- we're not there quite yet -- but that the directives from the politicians to the scientists to mould their scientific discourse around the administration's political agenda carried a whiff of Stalin.

See Lysenkoism (http://www.bookrags.com/sciences/genetics/lysenkoism-wog.html).

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 6th, 2006, 10:57 PM
I've never believed what I heard from government officials... but I guess I've always expected a little better when they put it in writing.
Depends on the government official. Until recently, I had pretty good faith in the CDC, for example. But at this point, every agency seems to have been infested with political weevils. I don't believe any of them any more. And that's a very bad place to be when the government is supposed to be of, by, and for the People.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 7th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Even with the CDC I've had my doubts when it was just the political appointee mouthing off. But now you can't even believe the things they put in writing (where it's a LOT easier for them to be caught being stupid).

fhaber
February 7th, 2006, 12:28 PM
I note that our beloved Rummy himself played the Hitler card the other day, referring to a certain South American leader of a Populo-Andean persuasion.

It's all those over-the-top tv commercials. Yeah, that's it.

Lindsey
February 7th, 2006, 06:58 PM
I note that our beloved Rummy himself played the Hitler card the other day, referring to a certain South American leader of a Populo-Andean persuasion.
Yes, I noticed that, too. Notice, also, the deafening sound of the silence from the Right Wing Noise Machine, who normally goes completely ape-$#!! anytime someone has the temerity to introduce that sort of comparison into a debate.

What struck me as funny (in a black humor kind of way) were Rumsfeld's expressions of concern for political corruption in Latin America as "corrosive of democracy"; "populist leadership appealing to the masses"; and Chavez having the backing of "a lot of oil money." If you had missed who he wast talking about, you could have sworn he was referring to his boss...

--Lindsey

ndebord
February 7th, 2006, 08:50 PM
I didn't say we were living in a Stalinist world -- we're not there quite yet -- but that the directives from the politicians to the scientists to mould their scientific discourse around the administration's political agenda carried a whiff of Stalin.

See Lysenkoism (http://www.bookrags.com/sciences/genetics/lysenkoism-wog.html).

--Lindsey


Of Stalin? Perhaps, or more aptly of the Church. Remember Galieo? Only not the Roman Catholic church, but the Southern Baptist and/or the Christian Coalition via the ear closest to God's mouth, GWB.

chm
February 7th, 2006, 09:15 PM
Hi Lindsey.

There was an article in this week's TIME on this subject as well. Here's the story online: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1156577,00.html

Disturbing.

(Eagerly awaiting the 2008 election...)

Carolyn

Lindsey
February 7th, 2006, 11:52 PM
Of Stalin? Perhaps, or more aptly of the Church. Remember Galieo? Only not the Roman Catholic church, but the Southern Baptist and/or the Christian Coalition via the ear closest to God's mouth, GWB.
The church??? In Stalinist Russia????? How do you figure that???

--Lindsey

Lindsey
February 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM
There was an article in this week's TIME on this subject as well.
Wow--even more damning. Disturbing indeed. Thanks for posting that link!

--Lindsey

rlohmann
February 8th, 2006, 06:01 PM
Am I the only one who detects a faint whiff of Stalinism in the editorial opinions of the NY Times?

Lindsey
February 8th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Am I the only one who detects a faint whiff of Stalinism in the editorial opinions of the NY Times?
Well, I'm sure you have plenty of company among an element of people I'm not sure you'd want to be associated with.

--Lindsey

fhaber
February 9th, 2006, 09:28 AM
Stalinism? The Times is experimenting. The metro edition, at least, is now full of Liebling, Lardner, and even Mickey Spillane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/09/nyregion/09vet.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Sometimes you think you're reading the Daily News. It's all Ralph's fault.

Judy G. Russell
February 9th, 2006, 10:53 AM
EVERYTHING is Ralph's fault, isn't it?

rlohmann
February 9th, 2006, 11:35 AM
<bowing graciously, sneering pleasantly, and assigning an additional slug of demerits to everybody> :cool:

Judy G. Russell
February 9th, 2006, 12:00 PM
You should be running out of demerits sooner or later...

Lindsey
February 9th, 2006, 09:33 PM
And just to add the proper element of farce to this topic:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007628.php

Why am I not surprised? <sigh>

--Lindsey

chm
February 10th, 2006, 04:53 PM
And just to add the proper element of farce to this topic:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007628.php

Why am I not surprised? <sigh>

--Lindsey
Curious! So there are all kinds of interesting angles to this story.

"Intelligent Design" and NASA, hmm.

Never graduated and lied on resume, hmm.

It all boils down to the same thing - I wish it were 2008 already!

Carolyn

rlohmann
February 10th, 2006, 06:06 PM
No.

Nor sneers, either.

Someone must define the boundaries between right and wrong.

<sneering wearily>

Lindsey
February 10th, 2006, 06:25 PM
Never graduated and lied on resume, hmm.
And as Keith Olbermann pointed out with great disdain the other night: "He had to fake a degree in journalism????"

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
February 11th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Between right and something, at least.