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davidh
January 23rd, 2006, 01:55 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Caritas_Est

Perhaps a little early for Valentine's Day, but I'm definitely not a master of etiquette.

Judy G. Russell
January 23rd, 2006, 04:49 PM
The document is expected to explain that eros and agape are both inherently good, but that eros risks being downgraded to mere sex if it is not balanced by an element of spiritual Christianity.Errr... does this mean that everybody who's not a Christian is doing things wrong?

earler
January 23rd, 2006, 04:49 PM
That article is not very good. It fails to define caritas, nor does it mention the other 4 latin words for lover: amor, dilectio, affectus and amicitia. It speaks of 2 greek words for love, eros and agape, then brings in logos, why I don't know.

For more detailed discussions see ambrose, augustine and thomas aquinas.

-er

davidh
January 23rd, 2006, 11:12 PM
Errr... does this mean that everybody who's not a Christian is doing things wrong? The article is not finished. Official doc comes out Wed. But I assume the idea is that a good marriage needs more than just good technique in bed.

D.H.

P.S.
I can't give any advice in this area, as my wife would probably say, I don't get a decent grade in either area.

davidh
January 23rd, 2006, 11:17 PM
That article is not very good. It fails to define caritas, nor does it mention the other 4 latin words for lover: amor, dilectio, affectus and amicitia. It speaks of 2 greek words for love, eros and agape, then brings in logos, why I don't know.

For more detailed discussions see ambrose, augustine and thomas aquinas.

-er What I actually thought was interesting was the fact that somebody had posted such an article IN ADVANCE of the publication, to be updated later. More of a positive reflection on Wikipedia than Benedict. Although Benedict seems to be doing pretty good with ad-libbing and turning on a little charm. Politics is not necessarily an ignoble profession.

AND, I also wanted to say Happy Valentine's Day :)

D.H.

Lindsey
January 23rd, 2006, 11:21 PM
Errr... does this mean that everybody who's not a Christian is doing things wrong?
I love how celibate men feel qualified to pronounce on how everyone else in the world should deal with sexuality.

And hey, what's wrong with "mere sex," anyway? (Should this go in Section 8?)

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
January 23rd, 2006, 11:32 PM
Hmmm... a good technique in bed is a good start, however, and I'm willing to bet several years' worth of income that any number of non-Christian men are fabulous husbands.

Judy G. Russell
January 23rd, 2006, 11:34 PM
It has never ceased to amaze me that when the Catholic Church had the wonderful chance, with John the 23rd, to listen, really listen, to the married laiety, they (you'll pardon the expression) muffed it,

Lindsey
January 24th, 2006, 12:00 AM
they (you'll pardon the expression) muffed it,
! ! ! ! !

:p

--Lindsey

davidh
January 24th, 2006, 12:26 AM
Hmmm... a good technique in bed is a good start, however, and I'm willing to bet several years' worth of income that any number of non-Christian men are fabulous husbands. I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would dispute that.

Even tho' the catholic church (of Rome) only approves officially of natural family planning (rhythm method), the Orthodox Jews are even stricter regarding intimate relations. And I would not be surprised if there was a large percent of OJ wives who appreciate having a "longer vacation", even tho' they might consider it inconvenient having to go to the mikveh (ritual immersion) every month.

(Furthermore, FWIW, the CCC, Catechism of the Catholic Church, states that others besides Catholics and Christians will be "saved".)

So I wonder if this is not at least partly an argument about a straw (or iron?) man. I.e. Ratzinger is the Enforcer. Schwarzeneger is German too, you know.

D.H.

Judy G. Russell
January 24th, 2006, 12:41 AM
I highly doubt that Pope Benedict would dispute that.I hope he wouldn't. But I am becoming more and more concerned about the Church and its turn to the right...

davidh
January 24th, 2006, 12:59 AM
And hey, what's wrong with "mere sex," anyway? I thought that one of the points of the article was that, in opposition to some other Christian theologians, the Pope is expected to pronounce (in more refined terms) that @(#*$&-ing is good. However, I doubt that he's going to say that one night stands are the exact moral equivalent of faithfulness in marriage. I don't think that's what you are implying by "mere sex". However, I'm sure that a lot of men (and women) wish he would say that, and believe it nevertheless regardless of what anybody says (until they catch HIV, etc. or somebody gets pregnant).

At least he deserves a little respect for being an astute politician. Everybody was expecting him to threaten thunder and lightning from Mt. Sinai and he pulls the rug out from underneath them by talking positively about love *and* sex.

D.H.

Nick Parkin
January 24th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Interesting thread - would be even better if David Lodge were to join in (for those who find the comment cryptic go to Amazon & search "How Far Can you Go?" Author - David Lodge

rlohmann
January 24th, 2006, 06:23 PM
I.e. Ratzinger is the Enforcer.No. See above left.

Schwarzeneg[g]er is German too, you know.He's an Austrian. As Bismarck made clear, Austrians are not Germans.

rlohmann
January 24th, 2006, 06:29 PM
I love how celibate men feel qualified to pronounce on how everyone else in the world should deal with sexuality. I hate having to agree with you on anything at all, but I did raise that subject at one time, many years ago.

I didn't get very far. :)

rlohmann
January 24th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Funny you should mention that.

I'm a little uneasy with the translation of "agape" as "unconditional love," also.

MollyM/CA
January 24th, 2006, 10:01 PM
Errr... does this mean that everybody who's not a Christian is doing things wrong?
Oh, absolutely. And if you are a Christian, if you're not Doing It with spirituality.

(I'd settle for a little spirit, at this point.)

Lindsey
January 24th, 2006, 11:06 PM
I didn't get very far. :)
No, I don't think theologians are inclined to pay much attention to the laity on any subject. :cool:

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
January 24th, 2006, 11:37 PM
(I'd settle for a little spirit, at this point.)<snort>

davidh
January 25th, 2006, 01:02 PM
excerpt from conclusion of encyclical:

"CONCLUSION

"Finally, let us consider the saints, who exercised charity in an exemplary way. Our thoughts turn especially to Martin of Tours (d. 397), the soldier who became a monk and a bishop: he is almost like an icon, illustrating the irreplaceable value of the individual testimony to charity. At the gates of Amiens, Martin gave half of his cloak to a poor man: Jesus himself, that night, appeared to him in a dream wearing that cloak, confirming the permanent validity of the Gospel saying: 'I was naked and you clothed me ... as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me' (Mt 25:36, 40)."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

davidh
January 25th, 2006, 02:04 PM
"It was on this garrison duty at Amiens that the event took place that has been portrayed in art throughout the ages. On a bitterly cold winter day, the young tribune Martin rode through the gates, probably dressed in the regalia of his unit -- gleaming, flexible armor, ridged helmet, and a beautiful white cloak whose upper section was lined with lambswool. As he approached the gates he saw a beggar, with clothes so ragged that he was practically naked. The beggar must have been shaking and blue from the cold but no one reached out to help him. Martin, overcome with compassion, took off his mantle. In one quick stroke he slashed the lovely mantle in two with his sword, handed half to the freezing man and wrapped the remainder on his own shoulders. Many in the crowd thought this was so ridiculous a sight that they laughed and jeered but some realized that they were seeing Christian goodness. That night Martin dreamed that he saw Jesus wearing the half mantle he had given the beggar. Jesus said to the angels and saints that surrounded him, "See! this is the mantle that Martin, yet a catechumen, gave me." When he woke, it was the "yet a catechumen" that spurred Martin on and he went immediately to be baptized. He was eighteen years old."

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=81

davidh
January 25th, 2006, 02:16 PM
QUOTE

However it was this compassion and mercy that led to what he considered his greatest mistake. Bishops from Spain including a bishop named Ithacius had gone to the emperor soliciting his help in destroying a new heresy taught by a man named Priscillian. Martin agreed completely that Priscillian was teaching heresy (among other things, he rejected marriage, and said that the world was created by the devil) and that he should be excommunicated. But he was horrified that Ithacius had appealed to a secular authority for help and even more upset that Ithacius was demanding the execution of Priscillian and his followers. Martin hurried to intervene with emperor Maximus, as did Ambrose of Milan. Martin stated his case that this was a church matter and that secular authority had no power to intervene and that excommunication of the heretics was punishment enough. He left believing he had won the argument and saved the heretics but after he left Ithacius began his manipulation again and Priscillian and the other prisoners were tortured and executed. This was the first time a death sentence had been given for heresy -- a horrible precedent.

Martin's mistake was yet to come. He hurried back in order to forestall a massacre of the Priscillianists. Once there he absolutely refused communion with the bishops who had murdered the people. This was a strong statement that rejected the persecuting bishops as part of the communion of the Church.

Unfortunately, the emperor Maximus knew the key to Martin's heart. He had prisoners that supported the former emperor Gratian in captivity and knew Martin wanted mercy for them. Maximus said that he would free these prisoners if Martin would share communion with Ithacius. Martin agreed to do so, but afterwards was so overcome with shame and guilt for giving in to such evil that he never went to any more assemblies of bishops.

On his way home, still weighed down with a feeling that he had sinned by communicating with Ithacius, he had a vision of angel who told him that although he was right to regret what he did, he was wrong to brood over his faults. "You saw no other way out," the angel said. "Take courage again: recover your ordinary firmness; otherwise you will be imperilling not your glory but your salvation." This advice we all should remember if we dwell too much on our mistakes.

UNQUOTE

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=81

earler
January 25th, 2006, 04:09 PM
21 ways to be a good democrat:


1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand

2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.

3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.

4. You have to believe that there was no Art before Federal funding.

5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's.

6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.

7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.

8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is some how qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

9. You have to believe that outdoorsmen don't care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do.

10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.

11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make The Passion Of The Christ for financial gain only.

12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.

13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison.

15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.

16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice person.

17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and a sex offender belonged in the White House.

19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese Government is somehow in the best interest to the United States.

21. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing conspiracy.


-er

Judy G. Russell
January 25th, 2006, 11:37 PM
And of course the one way to be a Republican these days is to insist that anybody who disagrees with whatever the Republicans are doing right now is a traitor providing aid and assistance to some enemy somewhere...

davidh
January 25th, 2006, 11:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Caritas_Est

Perhaps a little early for Valentine's Day, but I'm definitely not a master of etiquette. Now people, this table is for St. Valentine's day revelers. Please be of good cheer. I have decided that the pennance for grumpiness is that you have to buy me a drink. If you can't afford beer, tea will do.

D.H.

earler
January 26th, 2006, 04:54 AM
Actually, that ain't true. Lots of republicans are unhappy with many of the current administration's actions.

-er

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 12:30 PM
And of course they're speaking out loud and clear about their unhappiness... <sarcasm mode off>

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 12:33 PM
Mea culpa.

http://www.amgmedia.com/freephotos/beer-glass.jpg

ndebord
January 26th, 2006, 01:04 PM
21 Ways to be a good Republican

1. You never met a juvenile you wouldn't execute, or a fertilized egg you won't call "my baby."

2. You've visited foreign sweatshops and immediately went to Walmart to buy their products.

3. Like most Republicans, you own an M-79 grenade launcher and fire it regularly at squirrels in the backyard.

4. Republicans ascribe to the philosophy of "Let them Eat Art."

5. You recently visited the Big Apple during January and thought 60+ degree days were a good thing.

6. Your son and daughter announced they were homosexuals, but after counseling they embraced Christianity, married members of the opposite sex and had children. You still admire them for their determination to change, even after their twin suicides.

7. Your pastor has assured you that AIDs can be cured by Christian Counseling.

8. You self-school your children and are glad they have signed pledges in kindergarten that they will abstain from sex until marriage. You're not bothered by public health statistics that show teenagers in Christian communities have a higher incidence of STDs.

9. You believe that natural selection means you have the right to eradicate any life form that can be mounted on your living room wall.

10. Your self-esteem is assured only when you can lay claim to earning thousands times more than the average worker.

11. You weren't unhappy when it was disclosed that Mel Gibson donated nothing from Passion of The Christ to religious charity.

12. You support the NRA because they'll let you buy that 50 caliber machine gun you want to use when the squirrels in your backyard move too fast for your M-79 grenade launcher to kill.

13. You want your taxes and your ATM fees the same: ZERO

14. You think that Pat Robertson should be elevated to historical prominence, just like your hero from the Civil War, Gen. Robert E. Lee (you purposely omit Abraham Lincoln).

15. You only want standardized tests that show racial differences so you can impose tracking in schooling.

16. You have to believe that George W. BUsh is normal and a very nice person.

17. You firmly believe that Thomas Hobbes was right and that society is a dog eat dog battle, which is why individualism is much more important than any kind of social or (gasp) collective activity by groups of human beings. (You've moved to the mountains in Utah as a result and refuse to come down to any gathering larger than 2 roads crossing with a general store and a gas station.)

18. You refuse to believe that conservatives in the White House could willingly break the law of the land and embroil the country in a preemptive war, torture POWs, wiretap American Citizens without a warrant and hold people indefinitely without recourse to lawyers.

19. A Republican never met a homosexual that didn't deserve being dragged behind a pickup truck for a few miles.

20. The Republican Party believes that all contributions are as white as the driven snow. Just launder first before distribution, as illustrated by Tom Delay and Jack Abramoff.

21. You don't believe this message because your Pastor told you it is the voice of the Devil.

davidh
January 26th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Mea culpa.

http://www.amgmedia.com/freephotos/beer-glass.jpg You get extra points for using Latin. Therefore no additional pennance beyond confession is require. You can transfer your merits (beer) to whomever you wish, or drink them yourself.

D.H.

rlohmann
January 26th, 2006, 06:36 PM
the married laietyActually it's "laity," but God will punish you for it anyway.

rlohmann
January 26th, 2006, 06:38 PM
<snort>I hope you realize you're treading on very thin ice here.

rlohmann
January 26th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Let me make sure I understand this. I had understood that anybody who disagreed with whatever the Clintons were doing was guilty of irrational hatred and divisiveness, sexual obsessiveness, paranoia, and athlete's foot.

I'm a little confused, here.

rlohmann
January 26th, 2006, 06:47 PM
You get extra points for using Latin.Maxime! Gaudeo ergo bibeo!

"Hier sind wir versammelt zum löblichen Tun, nun Brüderchen ergo bibamus!

--J.W. v. Goethe

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 11:28 PM
If that's the worst that God's going to punish me for, I'm in good shape.

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 11:29 PM
At least you're not telling me, as one judge did, that I was skating on thin eggs...

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 11:29 PM
Not athlete's foot! Not that! Oh NO!

(And yes you are confused but then why should you be any different from any of the rest of us?)

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Wait a minute... what's that about a 50 caliber machine gun and squirrels... and will it work in my attic?

Judy G. Russell
January 26th, 2006, 11:32 PM
Whew... it was getting mighty thirsty twisting my tongue around that Latin!

ndebord
January 27th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Wait a minute... what's that about a 50 caliber machine gun and squirrels... and will it work in my attic?

Judy,

Are you willing, upon pain of death, to convert and become a God-fearing Republican? If so I'll tell you how good it will work, if you have faith, that is.

;-)

rlohmann
January 27th, 2006, 06:23 AM
:)

rlohmann
January 27th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Of course, the celibate women--Sr. Mary Merciless and her henchpersons--were not radiant fountains of common sense, either.

Lindsey
January 27th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Let me make sure I understand this. I had understood that anybody who disagreed with whatever the Clintons were doing was guilty of irrational hatred and divisiveness, sexual obsessiveness, paranoia, and athlete's foot.
Uh -- A good bit of the Democratic party has at one time or another been in disagreement with one or the other of the Clintons.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
January 27th, 2006, 09:14 PM
At least you're not telling me, as one judge did, that I was skating on thin eggs...
LOL!!! Is he a Bush cousin, by any chance? There seems to be some sort of genetic language problem in that family...

--Lindsey

Lindsey
January 27th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Wait a minute... what's that about a 50 caliber machine gun and squirrels... and will it work in my attic?
Uh-oh -- does this mean we've lost yet another one to the dark side? That gun stuff sucks them in every time... :(

--Lindsey

Lindsey
January 27th, 2006, 09:18 PM
Of course, the celibate women--Sr. Mary Merciless and her henchpersons--were not radiant fountains of common sense, either.
But Sr. Mary Merciless never pretended to be infallible...

--Lindsey

ndebord
January 27th, 2006, 11:49 PM
Uh-oh -- does this mean we've lost yet another one to the dark side? That gun stuff sucks them in every time... :(

--Lindsey

Lindsey,

Nah, I just think the squirrels have ah, er, driven her squirrely!

<g,d&R>

Judy G. Russell
January 28th, 2006, 08:30 AM
I don't think so... but he was a Republican.

Judy G. Russell
January 28th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Are you willing, upon pain of death, to convert and become a God-fearing Republican? If so I'll tell you how good it will work, if you have faith, that is.Sigh... as much as I hate tree rats, I don't hate 'em THAT much.

Judy G. Russell
January 28th, 2006, 08:36 AM
Uh-oh -- does this mean we've lost yet another one to the dark side? That gun stuff sucks them in every time...Only when it comes to getting rid of the tree rats.

rlohmann
January 28th, 2006, 07:36 PM
You, madam, never set patent-leather-shod foot in a Catholic school.

<sneering sadly>

ndebord
January 28th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Sigh... as much as I hate tree rats, I don't hate 'em THAT much.


Judy,

ok...O.K., I guess I'll have to tell you regardless of your unwillingess to convert, which I hasten to point out is probably essential to this particular method of eradicating tree rats (or roof rabbits as they're called in Harlem).

First, and a very essential point, you need to spend some time locating to the best of your ability where in the attic they are congregating.

Then you need a ladder tall enough so you can reach the ceiling on the floor below the attic.

Finally, you'll need tape. Painter's blue is good, as it'll come right off once you're done using it to "X mark the spot!"

O.K. So now you've found where your lovable little critters are living. You've marked the appropriate spot or spots on your ceiling. Now, make sure you have plenty of ammunition. Elevate the 50-cal (an anti-aircraft tripod would come in real handy at this stage) and fire away. This will disintegrate the little critters upon impact AND provide ventilation in your roof through which the few surviving varmits will quickly scamper in absolute terror, never to return!

Now of course, religion plays its part. Like never before, you will now need that old-time religion in order to truly believe that when next it rains, your newly renovated roof will not leak like a sieve!

<g>

Dan in Saint Louis
January 28th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Only when it comes to getting rid of the tree rats.
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved by the judicious application of a suitable amount of plastic explosive.

Lindsey
January 28th, 2006, 10:33 PM
I don't think so... but he was a Republican.
Well, we already know that being a Republican causes memory loss -- maybe it affects your language skills as well! IOW -- Republicanism causes brain damage.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
January 28th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Only when it comes to getting rid of the tree rats.
Hmmmmm, I wonder if what Ben Franklin had to say about the trade-off between liberty and security applies against squirrels as well?

--Lindsey

Lindsey
January 28th, 2006, 10:36 PM
You, madam, never set patent-leather-shod foot in a Catholic school.
And I thank God for it every day.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
January 29th, 2006, 12:07 PM
Hmmm... somehow that isn't quite what I had in mind. I had an image more in line with watching a little gray furry critter explode into a kazillion little pieces...

Judy G. Russell
January 29th, 2006, 12:08 PM
Even better if I can figure out how to apply it directly to the tree rats and then watch them when they blow up...

Judy G. Russell
January 29th, 2006, 12:09 PM
I don't want security. I want DEAD TREE RATS! And preferably dead outside of the house...

Lindsey
January 29th, 2006, 10:30 PM
I don't want security. I want DEAD TREE RATS! And preferably dead outside of the house...
And without blowing holes in your ceiling or roof...

--Lindsey

ndebord
January 30th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Hmmm... somehow that isn't quite what I had in mind. I had an image more in line with watching a little gray furry critter explode into a kazillion little pieces...

Judy,

Well then, I think it best that you forget about .50 Cal. There won't be enough left of those squirrels for you to gloat over after one of those shells gets done doing its thing.

I think rather you need the Pied Piper. First you have to "lure" those little rats out of your attic and out into the yard where you can come up with some alternate form of punishment!

<g>

davidh
January 30th, 2006, 02:03 AM
Maxime! Gaudeo ergo bibeo!

"Hier sind wir versammelt zum löblichen Tun, nun Brüderchen ergo bibamus!

--J.W. v. Goethe Pope Benedict XVI recommended that the laity should learn some of the most common prayers in Latin so that they could more easily pray together with the faithful who speak other veraculars. So I was thinking that maybe I should look up some of those prayers in Latin, but I don't think that is exactly what he had in mind.

http://www.preces-latinae.org/index.htm

L'Chaim

D.H.

rlohmann
January 30th, 2006, 05:16 PM
I don't agree with everything on Earle's list, but you elected not to respond to anything on it.

The world waits with baited breath for your response to some of the more telling points. :)

rlohmann
January 30th, 2006, 05:35 PM
An interesting website.

For starters, I have problems with the very first word of the Latin quote: "Expergiscere" as an imperative plural is the kind of Latin they spoke in about 475-and-a-half A.D. The preferred form would be "expergiscete."

But looking at the rest of the material, yeah, that's pretty much is what he had in mind. The Pope is a few years older than I, but it's the stuff that everyone who grew up Catholic between about 1260 and about 1960 was taught.

It had no meaning at all, of course. I had no idea until halfway through my four years of Latin in high school what any of those mantras meant, but that's the way it was.

rlohmann
January 30th, 2006, 05:37 PM
I knew you must have done something right. :)

rlohmann
January 30th, 2006, 05:44 PM
That bit probably needs to ramp up its disagreement engines if it wants to survive.

Everything I read in the American news media suggests that Hillary is planning to run for reelection in New York, assuring everyone that she'll keep that seat for six years, while getting ready for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008.

We here at the VRWC, having been kind of somnolent of late, are looking at the 2008 race with fascination. Hillary and Kerry? Kerry and Hillary? Jesse Jackson and Teddy Kennedy? Michael Jackson and Michael Moore?

The mind boggles at the possibilities. :->

rlohmann
January 30th, 2006, 05:48 PM
We have a limited number of spaces in our Latin course.

--
Conspiratio alae magnae dextris

Judy G. Russell
January 30th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I didn't need to respond. Nick did. (http://www.tapcis.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13216&postcount=10)

Judy G. Russell
January 30th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I only want a Pied Piper if he promises never ever to bring them back from wherever he pipes them TO.

Judy G. Russell
January 30th, 2006, 09:18 PM
In that case, I'll make the ultimate sacrifice and give my space in the course to someone else.

Lindsey
January 30th, 2006, 10:25 PM
That bit probably needs to ramp up its disagreement engines if it wants to survive.
Well, a lot of them are the ones you guys refer to as the "Michael Moore" wing of the party, and that certain others here have claimed are destroying the Democratic party.

--Lindsey

ndebord
January 30th, 2006, 11:27 PM
I don't agree with everything on Earle's list, but you elected not to respond to anything on it.

The world waits with baited breath for your response to some of the more telling points. :)


Ralph,

What am I, chopped liver? Although full of cliches, my list is my own, whereas I suspect Earle's was generated elsewhere.

Or did your Pastor tell you not to remember that you read mine?

;-)