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Judy G. Russell
December 7th, 2005, 03:08 PM
According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, while both male and female reindeer grow antlers in the summer each year, male reindeer drop their antlers at the beginning of winter, usually late November to mid-December. Female reindeer retain their antlers till after they give birth in the spring.

Therefore, according to EVERY historical rendition depicting Santa's reindeer, EVERY single one of them, from Rudolph to Blitzen, had to be a girl.

We should've known. ONLY women would be able to drag a fat-ass man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night and not get lost.

Lindsey
December 7th, 2005, 04:12 PM
ROFL!!!!

davidh
December 7th, 2005, 08:00 PM
According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, while both male and female reindeer grow antlers in the summer each year, male reindeer drop their antlers at the beginning of winter, usually late November to mid-December. Female reindeer retain their antlers till after they give birth in the spring.

Therefore, according to EVERY historical rendition depicting Santa's reindeer, EVERY single one of them, from Rudolph to Blitzen, had to be a girl.

We should've known. ONLY women would be able to drag a fat-ass man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night and not get lost.

Makes sense. The guys are tired of fighting over women. And nobody goin' to butt heads with no head gear. The gals are tired of being harrassed by the guys, so they keep their head gear in case some guys get too interested.

Plus the guys don't have head gear so they are afraid to ask directions of strangers in case they other guys take offense at their foreign accent.

David H.

Judy G. Russell
December 7th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Plus the guys don't have head gear so they are afraid to ask directions of strangers in case they other guys take offense at their foreign accent.I'll buy that.

In any case, this whole thing reminds me of the poster I saw that says:

You do know what would have happened if it had been three wise WOMEN instead of three wise men, don't you?

They would have asked for directions, arrived on time, helped deliver the baby, cleaned the stable, made a casserole, and brought practical gifts.

Dan in Saint Louis
December 7th, 2005, 08:57 PM
In any case, this whole thing reminds me of the poster I saw
http://www.flashfunpages.com/couple.swf (http://www.flashfunpages.com/couple.swf)

RayB (France)
December 8th, 2005, 03:53 AM
I'll buy that.

In any case, this whole thing reminds me of the poster I saw that says:

You do know what would have happened if it had been three wise WOMEN instead of three wise men, don't you?

They would have asked for directions, arrived on time, helped deliver the baby, cleaned the stable, made a casserole, and brought practical gifts.

Well yes . . . . . plus the fact that they couldn't FIND any.

Judy G. Russell
December 8th, 2005, 01:29 PM
LOL!!! I liked that one. All of it. And no, I didn't stop reading.

Judy G. Russell
December 8th, 2005, 01:29 PM
Well yes . . . . . plus the fact that they couldn't FIND any.Any what? Wise men?

davidh
December 8th, 2005, 02:02 PM
Well yes . . . . . plus the fact that they couldn't FIND any.

Find any wise women?

Well ...

Rebecca and Rachel were smart enough to get good husbands by taking good care of their future husbands' transportation (camels) at the filling station (well).

Rebecca tricked Isaac into giving the blessing to Jacob instead of Esau.

Miriam and her mom outsmarted the Egyptian royalty to save Moses life and give him a good Jewish education and get paid for doing it.

Samson's mom was a better theologian than her husband.

Deborah was successful as a general and judge.

Rahab the harlot was smart enough to figure out that the Jews would win the fight.

Samson's mom, Hannah, was probably a better theologian than Eli, the high priest.

The Syro-Phoenician woman outsmarted Jesus.

Esther's skillful diplomacy saved all the Jews.

Mary was smart enough to figure out how to skip out on her sister Martha in the kitchen and get praised for it.

Furthermore, the Hebrew word for wisdom is chochma, a feminine noun. And wisdom is portrayed as a woman in Proverbs.

Maybe the magi were actually Jewish and their wives would have come along to manage the deal, except for the fact that it might have been hard for them to find a mikveh for ritual purification on such a long trip.

Anyway my wife is more practical than I am, which is the wisdom that counts.

David H.

RayB (France)
December 9th, 2005, 02:26 AM
Find any wise women?

Well ...

Rebecca and Rachel were smart enough to get good husbands by taking good care of their future husbands' transportation (camels) at the filling station (well).

Rebecca tricked Isaac into giving the blessing to Jacob instead of Esau.

Miriam and her mom outsmarted the Egyptian royalty to save Moses life and give him a good Jewish education and get paid for doing it.

Samson's mom was a better theologian than her husband.

Deborah was successful as a general and judge.

Rahab the harlot was smart enough to figure out that the Jews would win the fight.

Samson's mom, Hannah, was probably a better theologian than Eli, the high priest.

The Syro-Phoenician woman outsmarted Jesus.

Esther's skillful diplomacy saved all the Jews.

Mary was smart enough to figure out how to skip out on her sister Martha in the kitchen and get praised for it.

Furthermore, the Hebrew word for wisdom is chochma, a feminine noun. And wisdom is portrayed as a woman in Proverbs.

Maybe the magi were actually Jewish and their wives would have come along to manage the deal, except for the fact that it might have been hard for them to find a mikveh for ritual purification on such a long trip.

Anyway my wife is more practical than I am, which is the wisdom that counts.

David H.

Were you there or are you just taking someone's word for it? You know how rumors get distorted.

davidh
December 9th, 2005, 09:46 AM
Were you there or are you just taking someone's word for it? You know how rumors get distorted.

You can't even rely on Instant Messaging anymore. The hackers recently come out with bots that imitate IM buddies and try to get you to click on links that attack vulnerabilities in AOL IM, to infect your PC.

David H.

P.S. Maybe I am a bot.

davidh
December 10th, 2005, 02:01 AM
In the spirit of debunking: Who owns the word 'Christmas'? The Romans or the Egyptians? (Disregarding the fact that the Greeks and Hebrews own the first part.)

"According to the recent researches, it is proved that the word "Christmas" is of an ancient Egyptian origin. Where this word is consisting of two parts: Christ & mas; Christ is the Lord, but what is mas?

"Mas is an ancient Egyptian word means: to be born or Birth. The word is drawn in the Hieroglyphic language -the ancient Egyptian language-as follows:
Symbol for Christmas

"The name of the ancient Egyptian king "Thothmas" means: the Birth of Thoth -god of wisdom. Therefore, mas means Birth. Hence, "Christmas" means the Birth of -Our Lord Jesus-Christ."

Christmas in Egypt
2002 by Maria Hubert von Staufer
http://www.christmasarchives.com/christmas_in_egypt.html



"The word for Christmas in late Old English is Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, first found in 1038, and Cristes-messe, in 1131. In Dutch it is Kerst-misse, in Latin Dies Natalis, whence comes the French Nol, and Italian Il natale; in German Weihnachtsfest, from the preceeding sacred vigil. The term Yule is of disputed origin. It is unconnected with any word meaning "wheel". The name in Anglo-Saxon was geol, feast: geola, the name of a month (cf. Icelandic iol a feast in December)."

from Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

"Alexandria. The first evidence of the feast (Christmas) is from Egypt. About A.D. 200, Clement of Alexandria (Strom., I, xxi in P.G., VIII, 888) says that certain Egyptian theologians "over curiously" assign, not the year alone, but the day of Christ's birth, placing it on 25 Pachon (20 May) in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus. [Ideler (Chron., II, 397, n.) thought they did this believing that the ninth month, in which Christ was born, was the ninth of their own calendar.] Others reached the date of 24 or 25 Pharmuthi (19 or 20 April). With Clement's evidence may be mentioned the "De pasch computus", written in 243 and falsely ascribed to Cyprian (P.L., IV, 963 sqq.), which places Christ's birth on 28 March, because on that day the material sun was created. But Lupi has shown (Zaccaria, Dissertazioni ecc. del p. A.M. Lupi, Faenza, 1785, p. 219) that there is no month in the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned Christ's birth. Clement, however, also tells us that the Basilidians celebrated the Epiphany, and with it, probably, the Nativity, on 15 or 11 Tybi (10 or 6 January). At any rate this double commemoration became popular, partly because the apparition to the shepherds was considered as one manifestation of Christ's glory, and was added to the greater manifestations celebrated on 6 January; partly because at the baptism-manifestation many codices (e.g. Codex Bez) wrongly give the Divine words as sou ei ho houios mou ho agapetos, ego semeron gegenneka se (Thou art my beloved Son, this day have I begotten thee) in lieu of en soi eudokesa (in thee I am well pleased), read in Luke 3:22. Abraham Ecchelensis (Labbe, II, 402) quotes the Constitutions of the Alexandrian Church for a dies Nativitatis et Epiphani in Nican times; Epiphanius (Hr., li, ed. Dindorf, 1860, II, 483) quotes an extraordinary semi-Gnostic ceremony at Alexandria in which, on the night of 5-6 January, a cross-stamped Kor was carried in procession round a crypt, to the chant, "Today at this hour Kor gave birth to the Eternal"; John Cassian records in his "Collations" (X, 2 in P.L., XLIX, 820), written 418-427, that the Egyptian monasteries still observe the "ancient custom"; but on 29 Choiak (25 December) and 1 January, 433, Paul of Emesa preached before Cyril of Alexandria, and his sermons (see Mansi, IV, 293; appendix to Act. Conc. Eph.) show that the December celebration was then firmly established there, and calendars prove its permanence. The December feast therefore reached Egypt between 427 and 433."

Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm

I'm neither a linguist nor historian, so take your choice, who gets first dibs on 'mas'?

Was Santa Claus' chariot pulled by camels?

David H.

RayB (France)
December 10th, 2005, 03:18 AM
You can't even rely on Instant Messaging anymore. The hackers recently come out with bots that imitate IM buddies and try to get you to click on links that attack vulnerabilities in AOL IM, to infect your PC.

David H.

P.S. Maybe I am a bot.

I don't have a PC.

davidh
December 10th, 2005, 04:00 AM
I don't have a PC.

Cool. Much smaller subset of spoofers to worry about when not using WINTEL.

David H.

Judy G. Russell
December 10th, 2005, 12:05 PM
Was Santa Claus' chariot pulled by camels?And was it still filled with toys and/or coal?

davidh
December 10th, 2005, 01:05 PM
And was it still filled with toys and/or coal? Well, it looks like all the corn burning stoves are sold out until next year and maybe not much corn in Jersey either. Maybe coal wouldn't be a bad thing in Jersey? esp. with free delivery.

Anyway I doubt Santa would deliver corn since he'd need it to run the chariot.

David H.

Judy G. Russell
December 10th, 2005, 03:52 PM
Maybe coal wouldn't be a bad thing in Jersey? esp. with free delivery.We do have this minor little issue about air pollution...

Lindsey
December 10th, 2005, 04:40 PM
We do have this minor little issue about air pollution...
I have it on good authority from a local architect-historian that the houses on Monument Avenue here in Richmond (most of which were built between about 1890 and 1920) were designed to produce an interesting line against a sky that was at the time heavily polluted with coal smoke...

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
December 10th, 2005, 06:55 PM
I remember that the basement of our house in central NJ still had a coal chute and coal room when we moved in, in late 1954. I'm not sure whether the furnace itself was still coal-fired, but I think it was. I seem to have dim memories of my father having to shovel coal into the furnace, and of a specific shovel he used for that purpose. I don't remember when we changed over to gas.

fhaber
December 11th, 2005, 11:01 AM
The last manually-stoked coal furnace in a New York City School was upgraded to oil in 1998 or so. Yes, the stoker got overtime (5 a.m. to 8 p.m.).

-f

"Best of the Season - Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!"

davidh
December 11th, 2005, 12:18 PM
- Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia! Do we then get a tax deduction on Saturnalia presents purchased? We could then buy gasoline cards for our friends and they for us. Yahoo and Google could have online registries so everybody could post what they want for Saturnalia and haggle back and forth to get a better deal on presents.

David H.

Pats
December 11th, 2005, 05:08 PM
"Best of the Season - Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!"
Yo Saturnalia!

Lindsey
December 11th, 2005, 08:38 PM
I remember that the basement of our house in central NJ still had a coal chute and coal room when we moved in, in late 1954. I'm not sure whether the furnace itself was still coal-fired, but I think it was.
Entirely possible; as Frank says, there were still coal-fired furnaces in NYC until very recently. I think I remember NPR doing a news feature on those at about the time the last of them in the school system was phased out.

--Lindsey

Lindsey
December 11th, 2005, 08:48 PM
"Best of the Season - Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!"
LOL!!! You're going to end up on Bill O'Reilly's honor^H^H^H^H^H blacklist. BTW, this week's installment (http://www.onthemedia.org/stream/ram.py?file=otm/otm120905h.mp3) of NPR's "On The Media" did a pretty good job of debunking that "war on Christmas" nonsense that is the subject of the right wing's latest media blitz.

--Lindsey

Judy G. Russell
December 11th, 2005, 11:49 PM
The last manually-stoked coal furnace in a New York City School was upgraded to oil in 1998 or so. Yes, the stoker got overtime (5 a.m. to 8 p.m.).Ah ha! So it isn't so unreasonable to think maybe we still had a coal-fired furnace into the early 1960s!

"Best of the Season - Let's put the Saturn back in Saturnalia!"OH YEAH!!! LET'S DO IT!!!

Judy G. Russell
December 11th, 2005, 11:50 PM
It's a little sad to think that there's no-one left alive in my family that I can ask.

fhaber
December 12th, 2005, 09:42 AM
Well, you could have asked your superannuated constituency here. Sniff. For instance, I (dimly, now) remember a coal truck on every block in NYC during January and February, chuting in tons of anthracite via trap doors in the sidewalks. Most apartment building required at least one delivery a week in the dead of winter. (They still do, but now it's #3 bunker oil.)

Yes, it was noisy. Yes, it was messy (kids tracking in coal dust on the new rug). But with soot in the air from Jersey and the power plants, somehow the mess just all fit in. Ever seen soot the size of small moths?

All this is why God invented the Electrolux and maids. And, as my father said, it was lots better than tromping through two inches of equine *&^*(& in the streets. He described the smell in July and August in quite vivid terms.

earler
December 12th, 2005, 09:56 AM
Bear in mind that anthracite doesn't give off much, if any, soot, unlike the coal burned in london or in paris in those days.

We had 2 furnaces in our house off the water in connecticut. The older one was a coal furnace, which we turned on once a day during the summer to keep everything from becoming mildewed in the awful humidity.

-er

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I don't mean I couldn't have asked people here GENERALLY about the use of coal. What I mean is that (sniff) I'm an orphan and can't ask about the specific use of coal in the house I grew up in!

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 10:19 AM
Yeah, but there's a lot more bituminous (http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/enved/go_with_inspector/coalmine/Anthracite_Coal_Mining.htm) coal than there is anthracite.

Dan in Saint Louis
December 12th, 2005, 11:05 AM
It's a little sad to think that there's no-one left alive in my family that I can ask.
I'm sure my father still remembers changing over my grandmother's shovel-fed coal furnace to one with a big screw that delivered the coal a little at a time.

Or was the screw to carry off the clinkers?

Shucks, I almost remember it myself!

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 11:45 AM
I don't remember any screw devices for the furnace, but I do remember the coal. I think. Sigh... it's been a while, I'm afraid!

ktinkel
December 12th, 2005, 12:04 PM
I remember that the basement of our house in central NJ still had a coal chute and coal room when we moved in, in late 1954. From 1965 to 1971 Jack and I lived in a real cold water flat in Manhattan. It had no heat at all (well, a gas log fireplace in the front room).

So we bought a Franklin stove and fed it cannel coal, which was very dense and compact. We ordered the coal from a regular service, so there must have been at least some coal heating in NYC the 60s and 70s. There was an old coal chute and bin in the basement of the building, and the landlord let us and our downstairs neighbor take deliveries and store the coal there. We just had to carry it upstairs (and the ashes down).

Very dirty, but cheap. And really warm, in the room with the stove, anyway.

Jeff
December 12th, 2005, 01:06 PM
I'm sure my father still remembers changing over my grandmother's shovel-fed coal furnace to one with a big screw that delivered the coal a little at a time.

Or was the screw to carry off the clinkers?

Shucks, I almost remember it myself!

I remember living in a little house in -20f St. Paul with (they even had a name which I don't remember) a screw affair to slowly deliver coal into and clinkers out of the furnace. I also remember my father's emotional state when with unfortunate frequency it would stop turning, because it had to be fixed as there was no room to shovel coal in any more. I would go down to the basement to help. I think I was 5 or so.

- Jeff

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Those old Franklin stoves were (and are, in some parts of the country) wonderful devices. Even a pot-bellied wood-burning stove will provide an amazing amount of heat!

ktinkel
December 12th, 2005, 04:38 PM
Those old Franklin stoves were (and are, in some parts of the country) wonderful devices. Even a pot-bellied wood-burning stove will provide an amazing amount of heat!We actually started out with a potbelly it made stunningly too much heat, practically drove us from the room.

It was a critical mass thing: it needed so much coal to get started that it had enough to run a locomotive. So we replaced it with a (then new) Franklin-style stove.

In the later 1970s, when we were in Durham, Connecticut, we bought a Vermont Castings Vigilant stove, an updated sort of Franklin. That was a fabulous stove that heated most of our house for three or four winters (on wood, of which we had bounteous quantities).

I would say something about those being the good old days, but stoves take a fair amount of work and make some mess. Modern heat is good, if expensive.

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 05:32 PM
My great grandfather was a traveling salesman for a cast iron stove company for a while, out west, in the early years of the 20th century. New-fangled contraptions...

rlohmann
December 12th, 2005, 08:06 PM
I remember that the basement of our house in central NJ still had a coal chute and coal room when we moved in, in late 1954. I'm not sure whether the furnace itself was still coal-fired, but I think it was. I seem to have dim memories of my father having to shovel coal into the furnace, and of a specific shovel he used for that purpose. I don't remember when we changed over to gas.The house I lived in in Elizabeth, NJ, in 1944-45 definitely had a coal furnace, and my grandfather had to shove coal into it with a shovel designed for that purpose.

Judy G. Russell
December 12th, 2005, 10:48 PM
That's close enough in time and place to lend credence to my memory... but I sure wish there was some way to know for sure...

davidh
December 12th, 2005, 11:39 PM
That's close enough in time and place to lend credence to my memory... but I sure wish there was some way to know for sure... Maybe one could get an idea by looking at ads in yellow pages of phone books on microfilm ? What would it be listed under ?

David H.

Judy G. Russell
December 13th, 2005, 04:15 PM
I can't imagine that even the best archival yellow pages could show whether my house had coal or oil or gas! Fortunately, one of my sisters remembers there being a coal chute and soot all over the basement, though she doesn't remember an actual coal-fired furnace. (She's some years younger than I am.) That's at least some confirmation.

lensue
December 14th, 2005, 09:04 AM
>actual coal-fired furnace<

Judy, I grew up in a tenement in Brooklyn and when I was young I remember they used coal--a big truck would arrive and through a shute the coal would get delivered to the basement.

When we lived in Maplewood our house had a heating system where the large furnace had been converted from a coal burning furnace to oil burning--it looked like something that belonged in the Smithsoneon! Regards, Len [g]

Judy G. Russell
December 14th, 2005, 10:16 AM
I seem to have very dim memories of coal deliveries even at the house where I grew up in Edison -- but my older sister hasn't weighed in with what she remembers and my younger siblings wouldn't have been around then. Sigh...

lensue
December 15th, 2005, 09:17 AM
>the house where I grew up in Edison <

Judy, didn't know you were from Edison--we like to go to the Indian section around there from time to time. We've enjoyed the fancy but BYO Moghul and right next to it they've opened a Chinese restaurant--very nice too. It's interesting to go into a Chinese restaurant and find mostly Indian people eating there. That one is called Ming. Both are in the Oak Tree shopping center. Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
December 15th, 2005, 09:34 AM
I grew up in the Stelton section (over by the Edison train station) -- lots of Rutgers professors and other professionals.

BruceKFredericks
December 17th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Hi Judy,

That's quite a revelation about the reindeer dropping their antlers. On November 2 at 9:10PM, I had a rather horrible experience. Driving home from a mid-week church service, I was assaulted by a large buck of about three years who darted out from a thicket unseen by me; it happened so fast. I hit the brakes at once but the poor guy never had a chance. He died twenty minutes later and I was in a state of shock never having killed any animal in my life. The Marlboro police told me there was nothing I could have done under the circumstances to save either the buck or the front end of my Acura which was repaired to the tune of $3,400. Now when I pass that spot at night, I drive about 30 mph with head on a swivel and it will probably always be that way for the rest of my life!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Judy . . .

Bruce

Judy G. Russell
December 18th, 2005, 02:49 PM
YIKES!!! You're damned lucky you didn't end up in the hospital, Bruce! I'm sorry for the buck, sure, and I do understand how you feel (I hit and killed a cat early one morning in the summer of 1969 and it still bothers me), but if the choice comes down between you and the deer, well, too bad for the deer.

Amazing -- simply amazing -- how much damage those things can do to a car, isn't it?

lensue
December 18th, 2005, 04:52 PM
>I grew up in the Stelton section <

Judy, just last night we were at a restaurant for a birthday party for a friend with 4 other couples--Lou Cas in the Colonial Village Shopping Center--very nice place. We were riding on the Lincoln Highway--Rte 27. We passed right by the Menlo Park Mall--what a jam up! Some of the people who live and use that mall said it's more stylish and maybe even larger that the Woodbridge Mall--I hadn't known that. It's amazing that 2 gigantic malls should be so close to each other. Regards, Len

lensue
December 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM
>how much damage those things can do to a car, isn't it?<

Judy, our Warren County area is loaded with them! We put a fence around our entire 2 and 1/2 acre garden or there would be no garden! I understand the mosse in Maine and Vermont are ever more fearsome! Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
December 18th, 2005, 05:22 PM
I was out on the NJ Turnpike Saturday afternoon around 3 p.m. and saw an entire HERD of deer -- two or three bucks and about eight does -- running along the sound barrier on the south bound side just above Exit 9. Amazing...

lensue
December 19th, 2005, 09:08 AM
>the NJ Turnpike <

Judy, and when we go down to Atlantic City or Cape May we never fail to see them along the side of the Garden State Parkway--there are just to many of them--time to introduce wolves to NJ! Regards, Len [g]

fhaber
December 19th, 2005, 09:57 AM
Every time I visit Joisey, which seems to be fairly frequently during the holidays, I'm further shocked at the traffic around major road junctions. I'd call it unsupportable, but then I'm just a city boy with a low threshold of pain.

I also shouldn't complain too much, because I'm just being chauffered to the bus or the train, where I can sleep through the crush. But sheesh, how do you guys take it?

Judy G. Russell
December 19th, 2005, 11:17 AM
when we go down to Atlantic City or Cape May we never fail to see them along the side of the Garden State Parkway--there are just to many of them--Along the Parkway I can understand -- there's a lot of open land there, especially in South Jersey. But along the Turnpike? Between Exits 9 and 10???

time to introduce wolves to NJ!We already have wolves in New Jersey. They're called "politicians."

Judy G. Russell
December 19th, 2005, 11:18 AM
Every time I visit Joisey, which seems to be fairly frequently during the holidays, I'm further shocked at the traffic around major road junctions. I'd call it unsupportable, but then I'm just a city boy with a low threshold of pain. I also shouldn't complain too much, because I'm just being chauffered to the bus or the train, where I can sleep through the crush. But sheesh, how do you guys take it?There isn't much choice, so you (a) turn off your brain, (b) make sure you have a good selection of music in the car and (c) blame it all on New Yorkers who come over here to shop for the holidays!

rlohmann
December 19th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Bruce--

The police were right.

At this time of year, the mating season, deer run wild. There's not a lot you can do about that beyond driving at 10 mph. If you live in a rural area of great distances--I live in the middle of the Delmarva Peninsula--this is not practical.

The Maryland State Police have recently advised drivers who see a deer too close to their headlights not to hit their brakes.

The rationale is that whatever the driver does, the deer is dead anyway. Braking lowers the front of the car, ensuring that the deer, already dead, will not only do major damage to the front end, but may well crash through the windshield, possibly injuring or killing the driver. Not braking creates at least the chance that the deer will fall underneath the car, significantly reducing the damage.

It would be nice if there were a better response, but apparently there isn't.

lensue
December 20th, 2005, 10:46 AM
>Between Exits 9 and 10<

Judy, yep, no big forests over there! Regards, Len [g]

lensue
December 20th, 2005, 10:49 AM
>how do you guys take it<

Frank, we have our strategies--knowing when to try to go from place to place, secret side roads, EZPass! Regards, Len [g]

Judy G. Russell
December 20th, 2005, 12:31 PM
No forests at all! They were running along the southbound lanes, on the outside of the sound barrier. Amazing... I kept looking to see if one of 'em had a red nose.

Judy G. Russell
December 20th, 2005, 12:33 PM
The Maryland State Police have recently advised drivers who see a deer too close to their headlights not to hit their brakes. The rationale is that whatever the driver does, the deer is dead anyway. Braking lowers the front of the car, ensuring that the deer, already dead, will not only do major damage to the front end, but may well crash through the windshield, possibly injuring or killing the driver. Not braking creates at least the chance that the deer will fall underneath the car, significantly reducing the damage.Now that's something I wouldn't have thought of, but it makes perfect sense.

Jeff
December 20th, 2005, 01:37 PM
Bruce--

The police were right.

At this time of year, the mating season, deer run wild. There's not a lot you can do about that beyond driving at 10 mph. If you live in a rural area of great distances--I live in the middle of the Delmarva Peninsula--this is not practical.

The Maryland State Police have recently advised drivers who see a deer too close to their headlights not to hit their brakes.

The rationale is that whatever the driver does, the deer is dead anyway. Braking lowers the front of the car, ensuring that the deer, already dead, will not only do major damage to the front end, but may well crash through the windshield, possibly injuring or killing the driver. Not braking creates at least the chance that the deer will fall underneath the car, significantly reducing the damage.

It would be nice if there were a better response, but apparently there isn't.

Out here where the deer and the antelope play the males are described as simply insane. They have been known to charge a moving car broadside in an attempt to get across the road. Now in addition to the rationale of your State Police I'll add the advise of the insurance companies / agents: hit the animal. If you try to avoid, lose control, and mess up the car that way, it's a much different kind of "accident", especially if the deer walks away and you don't.

- Jeff

lensue
December 21st, 2005, 06:45 AM
>I kept looking to see if one of 'em had a red nose<

Judy, LOL--and if he was on his way to The Woodbridge Mall! Maybe they were all on their way to the Jersey Meadowlands--that's a pretty good nature preserve! Regards, Len [g]

Judy G. Russell
December 21st, 2005, 09:48 AM
Maybe they were all on their way to the Jersey Meadowlands--that's a pretty good nature preserve!Wrong direction. They were headed towards New Brunswick from Edison. Hmmm... I should have looked to see if Rutgers was playing a home game...

lensue
December 22nd, 2005, 08:27 AM
>Rutgers<

Judy, when I was going for my masters down at Rutgers I lived on Landing
Lane pretty close to the river--that would have been a good place for the deer to head to. BTW talk about wild life someone told me recently that at the Woodbridge and Menlo Park malls they have quite a rat population living within all the rhododendrons and other evergreens. Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
December 22nd, 2005, 10:47 PM
Rats, I understand. They're urban/suburban beasties. But the deer were totally in the wrong area. I suppose they could have gotten outside the sound barrier around the area of the river (remember that the Turnpike is well south of Landing Lane, however), but geez...

lensue
December 22nd, 2005, 11:26 PM
>remember that the Turnpike is well south of Landing Lane,<

Judy, it's been so long since we've been in New Brunswick I'd probably get lost--I remember eating at the very trendy Frog and Peach many years ago--in it's day it was excellent--just looked in Zagat and it still gets an excellent if pricey rating. Regards, Len

Judy G. Russell
December 23rd, 2005, 11:29 AM
The Frog and Peach has always been both excellent and trendy!

lensue
December 23rd, 2005, 04:55 PM
>The Frog and Peach has always been both excellent and trendy!<

Judy and not only that--I believe they've trained a lot of talented chefs who went on to open their own places after getting some experience there. Regards, Len

chm
December 24th, 2005, 05:03 PM
ONLY women would be able to drag a fat-ass man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night and not get lost.

Ha! : )

Have a Merry Christmas, or whatever you do, and a Happy New Year, Everybody.

BTW, there's lots of holiday treats on my website's funny page (Wazzup.htm). Help yourself.

Carolyn

Judy G. Russell
December 25th, 2005, 02:05 PM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.