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nancy shepherdson
December 6th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Is "snail" another horror visited on us by programmers?

Anyway, I missed the deadline in my confusion, so it doesn't matter.

Nancy


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Hugo Kornelis
December 7th, 2005, 05:03 AM
Hi Nancy,

> Is "snail" another horror visited on us by programmers?

I don't think so.

When the @ sign gained popularity, people needed a name for it. The
English-speaking folks chose "at-sign", or "at". The Dutch chose
"apenstaartje" (in English: little monkeytail), based on form. Apparently,
some other language settled for something that translates as "snail"
(probably for the same reason as the Dutch: form association).

When someone posted a collection of these and several other names for the @
sign in this group, some of us picked up the "snail" version and started to
use that instead of "at".

It might be a horror (all in the eye of the beholder, they say), but it's
not visited on us by programmers - but by people who are addicted to playing
with words and language.

> Anyway, I missed the deadline in my confusion, so it doesn't matter.

Defs have not been posted yet - I'd say, give it a try.

Best, Hugo




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Christopher Carson
December 7th, 2005, 06:41 AM
For more than you ever wanted to know about the "at" sign, see www.herodios.com where I learned that in Dutch, it's also called the "apeklootj".

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugo Kornelis
To: coryphaeus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Snail?


Hi Nancy,

> Is "snail" another horror visited on us by programmers?

I don't think so.

When the @ sign gained popularity, people needed a name for it. The
English-speaking folks chose "at-sign", or "at". The Dutch chose
"apenstaartje" (in English: little monkeytail), based on form. Apparently,
some other language settled for something that translates as "snail"
(probably for the same reason as the Dutch: form association).

When someone posted a collection of these and several other names for the @
sign in this group, some of us picked up the "snail" version and started to
use that instead of "at".

It might be a horror (all in the eye of the beholder, they say), but it's
not visited on us by programmers - but by people who are addicted to playing
with words and language.

> Anyway, I missed the deadline in my confusion, so it doesn't matter.

Defs have not been posted yet - I'd say, give it a try.

Best, Hugo




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Hugo Kornelis
December 7th, 2005, 07:02 AM
Hi Chris,

> For more than you ever wanted to know about the "at" sign, see
www.herodios.com where I learned that in Dutch, it's also called the
"apeklootj".

I'd love to see a confirmed source for that.

Being Dutch and having lived in the Netherlands for all of the 41-odd years
of my life, I think I should have known if the Dutch call it "apeklootje"
(mind the trailing "e"!). But in fact, this is the first time I've ever seen
that term.

Best, Hugo




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Christopher Carson
December 7th, 2005, 07:28 AM
Hello Hugo,

>>I'd love to see a confirmed source for that.

The referenced web site lists that as well as "a-krol" or "a-krul" and "slinger-atje" as "other names attested". I'm not sure exactly what that means but they list 13 "also heard" terms in English, most of which I've never heard before. It says the original Dutch name was "een a met een slinger" and that the popular term soon became "apestaart" or "apestaartje" or "slingeraap". Since my knowledge of Dutch is pretty much limited to things chocolate and Friesian horses, I couldn't attest to Herodius' accuracy. The website seems to be under construction at the moment and only has two articles on it - "A Natural History of the @ Sign, Part 1" and "Technical Writing and the Pronoun Problem", a treatise on avoiding gender specific pronouns. The @ sign article was actually referenced in an article from the Washington Post from October that I can't find a link for, although I have a PDF copy in my archives. My favorite term is evidently Israeli where (at least according to the Post article) it's known as a "strudel".

Chris


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Paul Keating
December 7th, 2005, 04:19 PM
No, it is a stupidity visited on us by spammers.

In a spam-free world, people would be happy to put their email addresses in
a message addressed to a small list.

But most of the people here are or were CIS subscribers.

CompuServe forums were built on trust (and the willingness to pay $8 a
month). This made them wide open to spammers. That is why the old-style
CompuServe forums that we loved could not survive. They were a spammer's
playground. That is also why many ex-CIS subscribers, and especially
ex-sysops, are cagey to the point of obscurity (in this case) or appalling
rudeness (in others) when they need to put an email address in a message
that goes to a group.

This is all so sad. If you post your email address on Yahoo in a message, it
will be truncated to three dots after the @ in the displayed message,
unless the reader is signed in, and possibly even then. An interloper cannot
harvest your address from a Yahoo group, and in fact, spelling it as
myaccount (at) mydomain (dot) com is probably more dangerous than writing it
out properly and having Yahoo truncate it. Scanning software is stupid, but
it's not that stupid. And I'm sure the trawlers have already worked out (as
you did not) that "snail" is a synonym for "(at)" which in turn is a synonym
for "@".

(If you post your address in a message on tapcis.com, it will translate your
posted address as myaccount (at) mydomain (dot) com; which, when forwarded
to Yahoo, will defeat Yahoo's truncation.)

Alas, the fact that many spammers used to use free Yahoo mail addresses to
send their spam from (about 2 years ago) has led some people to believe that
Yahoo groups are as wide open to email address harvesters as CompuServe
forums once were.

They're not, of course. I've never, ever, even once, been spammed at the
addresses I have for this and a few other Yahoo groups. I can say this with
confidence because I create a new, unique address for everybody who asks for
one, so that I can cheerfully bin that address if it gets abused. Believe it
or not, I've never had to bin even one. Most if not all of the people who
ask for your email address are really, really careful with it. They may make
mistakes, of course. Everyone does. But they are generally honest mistakes.

--
Paul Keating
The Hague
----- Original Message -----
From: "nancy shepherdson" <sjnanner (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>
To: <coryphaeus (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:07 AM
Subject: [Dixonary] Snail?


> Is "snail" another horror visited on us by programmers?
>



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Guerri Stevens
December 8th, 2005, 05:36 AM
I find that many people who have my Email address are *not* careful with
it. They will happily put it in a mailing list that includes people
unknown to me in order to send out a joke or cartoon or something that
seems interesting to them. Whether it is possible to harvest Email
addresses from something like that, I don't know. Some recipients may
then decide to forward the message to one or more unknown people, and
include the original mailing list as part of the forwarded material.

And people will use "reply to all" inappropriately. The recent Email
from Dodi, with the addresses for group members, was treated like that
by a couple of people. Granted, these were members of the group and
their messages were going to other members of the group, so it's no big
deal. But others who get a message addressed to a group of people will
also "reply to all" without thinking.

Guerri



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jmadnick@nycap.rr.com
December 8th, 2005, 08:06 AM
----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Guerri Stevens" <guerri (AT) tapcis (DOT) com>

<< I find that many people who have my Email address are *not* careful with
<< it. They will happily put it in a mailing list that includes people
<< unknown to me in order to send out a joke or cartoon or something that
<< seems interesting to them.

They fail to use "blind carbon copy" -- I have the same complaint and frequently try to educate friends to use the "bcc" feature.

<< And people will use "reply to all" inappropriately. The recent Email
<< from Dodi, with the addresses for group members, was treated like that
<< by a couple of people. Granted, these were members of the group and
<< their messages were going to other members of the group, so it's no big
<< deal. But others who get a message addressed to a group of people will
<< also "reply to all" without thinking.

Um, I believe I "replied to all" -- but the only reason that works is because all those addresses were in the "to" field and all recipients already had access to the entire group of addressees. Besides, I *wanted* everyone to whom Dodi had written to have my new address. The only time that I use "reply to all" is when I'm replying to a specific group of people. If, for example, someone sends me a joke (ugh!) with multiple names in the "to" field, I do not "reply to all" but just to the sender.

Judy


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