[Dixonary] OT: Adobe Flash Player

[Guerri Stevens]

Is there anyone here who has a recent version (mine is 11.9.9) and would
be willing to exchange a few Emails with me about it outside of the
Dixonary game? I am beyond being nagged to update, and web sites are now
refusing to run my outdated version unless I specifically demand that
they do it. But I have a question about the newer version, which is why
I have refused to update.

I am willing to continue the discussion here, but feel that I am doing
this kind of "OT" thing way too much.
--
Guerri

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[Tim Lodge]

Guerri

I don't see a problem with OT messages - I often learn new things from them. Go ahead and ask your question here.

-- Tim L

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[Guerri Stevens]

OK, I'll ask it:

The update announcements automatically sent to me usually say very
little about what is being updated, often simply "security updates" and
the fact that lots of sites use the Flash Player and I will feel
deprived if I don't have it because my online experience will not be
properly enriched.

The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash
Player will now keep my friends up to date on my favorite games. I don't
want Adobe notifying my friends, or enemies for that matter, about games
I might play. I think what I tell my friends is my business, not
Adobe's. Furthermore, how does Adobe know who my friends are?

In short, I want the ability to turn this feature off and if it cannot
be turned off, I don't want the update.

Now - I may be overreacting here. I know about Facebook, and Twitter and
all that stuff. I have chosen not to participate in any of them.
Possibly, that's what Adobe is talking about with the "friend" comment -
i.e. if I have a Facebook "friend", Adobe will save me the trouble of
telling that friend about games I am playing. So if I am not involved in
those services, the new feature will simply not apply to me. Unless, of
course, Adobe will set me up with accounts in Facebook et al.

I think this is a misguided feature even for people who do participate
in those services. Certainly some participants would want to choose what
information is available about them, and not have Adobe or anyone else
automatically placing data in their accounts.

Guerri
On 12/14/2014 6:33 AM, Tim Lodge wrote:
> Guerri
>
> I don't see a problem with OT messages - I often learn new things from them. Go ahead and ask your question here.
>
> -- Tim L
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8704 - Release Date: 12/08/14

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[Tim Lodge]

Guerri

I'm definitely not an expert here, and I couldn't find anything about the
"friends" feature in Flash with a Google search (except your posting in the
Adobe support forum!).

However, I suspect that you're right, and if you don't play games or belong
to Facebook, the new feature won't affect you. I do have a Facebook
account, but it's only so that I can see the pictures of my grandchildren
that my daughter posts - I've applied all the privacy settings to my
account so my Facebook homepage shouldn't tell you very much at all.

I'm impressed that you spotted the new feature in the update information -
I certainly missed it myself! Most of us are a bit too casual when it
comes to terms and conditions.

-- Tim



On Sunday, December 14, 2014 12:46:17 PM UTC, Guerri wrote:
>
> OK, I'll ask it:
>
> The update announcements automatically sent to me usually say very
> little about what is being updated, often simply "security updates" and
> the fact that lots of sites use the Flash Player and I will feel
> deprived if I don't have it because my online experience will not be
> properly enriched.
>
> The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash
> Player will now keep my friends up to date on my favorite games. I don't
> want Adobe notifying my friends, or enemies for that matter, about games
> I might play. I think what I tell my friends is my business, not
> Adobe's. Furthermore, how does Adobe know who my friends are?
>
> In short, I want the ability to turn this feature off and if it cannot
> be turned off, I don't want the update.
>
> Now - I may be overreacting here. I know about Facebook, and Twitter and
> all that stuff. I have chosen not to participate in any of them.
> Possibly, that's what Adobe is talking about with the "friend" comment -
> i.e. if I have a Facebook "friend", Adobe will save me the trouble of
> telling that friend about games I am playing. So if I am not involved in
> those services, the new feature will simply not apply to me. Unless, of
> course, Adobe will set me up with accounts in Facebook et al.
>
> I think this is a misguided feature even for people who do participate
> in those services. Certainly some participants would want to choose what
> information is available about them, and not have Adobe or anyone else
> automatically placing data in their accounts.
>
> Guerri
> On 12/14/2014 6:33 AM, Tim Lodge wrote:
> > Guerri
> >
> > I don't see a problem with OT messages - I often learn new things from
> them. Go ahead and ask your question here.
> >
> > -- Tim L
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8704 - Release Date:
> 12/08/14
>
>

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[Guerri Stevens]

I suppose it is possible that I am not the only one to be wary of the
"friends" feature, so maybe it is now history. I suppose I could go to
the Adobe site and look for any information on the new version. I know
there were complaints there about unwanted other products, and I have
heard that elsewhere. I.e. when you install a new version of Flash,
Adobe installs other stuff as well. I have always installed right from
the notice I receive about the new version, and maybe that does not
install other, unwanted stuff.



I am surprised you found my post at Adobe. I had trouble finding it
myself, being totally unfamiliar with the site, and finding nothing
there that is intuitive to me! Anyway, thanks for your comments about
the "friends". I will see what others have to say and maybe will grit my
teeth and go back to the site to see what information I can find.

Guerri
On 12/14/2014 10:44 AM, Tim Lodge wrote:
> Guerri
>
> I'm definitely not an expert here, and I couldn't find anything about
> the "friends" feature in Flash with a Google search (except your
> posting in the Adobe support forum!).
>
> However, I suspect that you're right, and if you don't play games or
> belong to Facebook, the new feature won't affect you. I do have a
> Facebook account, but it's only so that I can see the pictures of my
> grandchildren that my daughter posts - I've applied all the privacy
> settings to my account so my Facebook homepage shouldn't tell you very
> much at all.
>
> I'm impressed that you spotted the new feature in the update
> information - I certainly missed it myself! Most of us are a bit too
> casual when it comes to terms and conditions.
>
> -- Tim
>

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[Paul Keating]

Guerri,

I'm sorry but I think you're overreacting.

Flash Player has no way to tell who your friends are, except via Facebook et al. I suspect that in any case it only applies to Facebook games. If you have your Facebook locked down, as I expect you have, the software's threat is an empty one. If you tell Facebook it can't broadcast what games you play, it really won't, whatever Flash Player thinks.

> The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash Player will now keep my friends up to date on my favorite games. I don't want Adobe notifying my friends, or enemies for that matter, about games I might play. I think what I tell my friends is my business, not Adobe's. Furthermore, how does Adobe know who my friends are?

--
Paul Keating
The Hague

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[Guerri Stevens]

I don't have a Facebook account at all. Nor do I have the Google
equivalent, whatever it is. So if that is what Flash Player is going to
do, I am safe. I notice that the CompuServe Windows forum now has
something about "friends" in it, which I didn't bother to investigate,
but that is not automated.

As far as how Flash Player would know about friends other than Facebook
et al, what about Google Groups? Who knows where and when the blasted
thing runs. Firefox evidently considers it a plug in. Because I am now
delinquent as far as updating it is concerned, I am now getting warnings
from anything that wants to use it. And today I saw one from something I
didn't expect and I *think* it was Gmail, but I will try to pay better
attention and make notes. Why would Gmail need the player? If it runs in
Gmail, it could, conceivably, collect names of my correspondents.

Guerri
On 12/14/2014 5:37 PM, Paul Keating wrote:
> Re: [Dixonary] OT: Adobe Flash Player Guerri,
>
> I'm sorry but I think you're overreacting.
>
> Flash Player has no way to tell who your friends are, except via
> Facebook et al. I suspect that in any case it only applies to Facebook
> games. If you have your Facebook locked down, as I expect you have,
> the software's threat is an empty one. If you tell Facebook it can't
> broadcast what games you play, it really won't, whatever Flash Player
> thinks.
>
> > The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash Player will now keep my friends
> up to date on my favorite games. I don't want Adobe notifying my
> friends, or enemies for that matter, about games I might play. I think
> what I tell my friends is my business, not Adobe's. Furthermore, how
> does Adobe know who my friends are?
>
> /--
> Paul Keating
> The Hague
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8704 - Release Date: 12/08/14
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Dixonary" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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> /

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[JohnB]

Slightly off the OT topic ---

there are some nasty people around...

I maintain a small local website which like nearly everyone nowadays
uses gmail as its mail server. On Friday one of our "users" started
sending mails saying (words to the effect) "the doc was too big so I
put it up on Google Docs, click here <xyz link> to read it"

1. a) if you did click on the link you got virused **** if your browser
allowed your to open it ****
1. b) - most anti virus software could handle the virus but unless
you dealt with it in about 15 minutes you ended up with the same
problem
2. c) The link said it was to "Google docs" but actually pointed to
a site in Brazil and the hacker was actually operating in South
Africa as far as I could tell
2. a) the hacker had actually really taken over the email account so
that you couldn't do things like change your password (and as a
corollary of that, if you logged out, closed your browser etc then
you could no longer log in again)
1. b) If the person who received the false email didn't click the
link but replied asking the originator what it was all about
then the hacker replied with some anodyne message (the English
was a bit of a give away( - the only way to realise that it was
the hacker was to ask a question which he could not know the
answer (but the real person would know) - even then the reply
was a possible reply
3. a) even when I (as webmaster) had sorted it out so that the real
person was back in control of his email account with a new password
etc he had lost all his email address
1. b) because he used both a computer and a mobile phone for his
email then because they are the same email account he had
necessarily lost his email addresses on the phone too
2. c) because in Google's wisdom his phone numbers on his mobile
phone were linked to his address book he also lost his
phone-book on the mobile phone
4. He had not backed up anything except on google and the hacker had
cleared the drive store too - before I managed to chop him off

So be warned.... all this cross-linking is very vulnerable - if you do
get caught then it can be a lot of things that are affected

--- I am still mopping up queries from people all over the world as a
result of that mailing

*JohnnyB*
On 15/12/2014 13:19, Guerri Stevens wrote:
> I don't have a Facebook account at all. Nor do I have the Google
> equivalent, whatever it is. So if that is what Flash Player is going
> to do, I am safe. I notice that the CompuServe Windows forum now has
> something about "friends" in it, which I didn't bother to investigate,
> but that is not automated.
>
> As far as how Flash Player would know about friends other than
> Facebook et al, what about Google Groups? Who knows where and when the
> blasted thing runs. Firefox evidently considers it a plug in. Because
> I am now delinquent as far as updating it is concerned, I am now
> getting warnings from anything that wants to use it. And today I saw
> one from something I didn't expect and I *think* it was Gmail, but I
> will try to pay better attention and make notes. Why would Gmail need
> the player? If it runs in Gmail, it could, conceivably, collect names
> of my correspondents.
>
> Guerri
> On 12/14/2014 5:37 PM, Paul Keating wrote:
>> Re: [Dixonary] OT: Adobe Flash Player Guerri,
>>
>> I'm sorry but I think you're overreacting.
>>
>> Flash Player has no way to tell who your friends are, except via
>> Facebook et al. I suspect that in any case it only applies to
>> Facebook games. If you have your Facebook locked down, as I expect
>> you have, the software's threat is an empty one. If you tell Facebook
>> it can't broadcast what games you play, it really won't, whatever
>> Flash Player thinks.
>>
>> > The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash
>> Player will now keep my friends up to date on my favorite games. I
>> don't want Adobe notifying my friends, or enemies for that matter,
>> about games I might play. I think what I tell my friends is my
>> business, not Adobe's. Furthermore, how does Adobe know who my
>> friends are?
>>
>> /--
>> Paul Keating
>> The Hague
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8704 - Release Date:
>> 12/08/14
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Dixonary" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to dixonary+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
>> <mailto:dixonary+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com>.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> /
>

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[Guerri Stevens]

Where did we get the idea that the Internet was helpful in any way????
Guerri
On 12/15/2014 10:56 AM, JohnB wrote:
> Slightly off the OT topic ---
>
> there are some nasty people around...
>
> I maintain a small local website which like nearly everyone nowadays
> uses gmail as its mail server. On Friday one of our "users" started
> sending mails saying (words to the effect) "the doc was too big so I
> put it up on Google Docs, click here <xyz link> to read it"

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[davidh]

I have not studied this thread in detail, but I don't think using the latest updates to Flash and/or Firefox is dangerous. In fact not updating could sometimes be more insecure.

For example, the most recent versions of Firefox allow you to go to Tools, Add-Ons, Plug Ins and tell FF that you want it to ask permission to run a particular plug in such as Flash on a particular site, yes or no, just this once or remember to allow permanently for a particular site. Very cool. Mozilla is aware of the relative hole-i-ness of plug ins and has adapted accordingly.

I tend to be paranoid and say either always ask permission for Flash on most site or 'never' run, e.g. for Java.

(BUt I do use Java OFFLINE for a program to fancy print stuff, etc.)

For one or two sites where I always use a Flash plug in program I tell FF to remember to allow it in future, but otherwise I let FF keep asking me to give permission.

If Flash were really promiscuously violating privacy, I think many anti-malware (AV) programs would detect it as a PUP, Possibly Unwanted Program, leading to a big fight between Adobe and the AV Co., which does not actually happen in practice AFAIK.

OK, I'll ask it:

The update announcements automatically sent to me usually say very
little about what is being updated, often simply "security updates" and
the fact that lots of sites use the Flash Player and I will feel
deprived if I don't have it because my online experience will not be
properly enriched.

The latest update notice had something new: it said that the Flash
Player will now keep my friends up to date on my favorite games. I don't
want Adobe notifying my friends, or enemies for that matter, about games
I might play. I think what I tell my friends is my business, not
Adobe's. Furthermore, how does Adobe know who my friends are?

In short, I want the ability to turn this feature off and if it cannot
be turned off, I don't want the update.

Now - I may be overreacting here. I know about Facebook, and Twitter and
all that stuff. I have chosen not to participate in any of them.
Possibly, that's what Adobe is talking about with the "friend" comment -
i.e. if I have a Facebook "friend", Adobe will save me the trouble of
telling that friend about games I am playing. So if I am not involved in
those services, the new feature will simply not apply to me. Unless, of
course, Adobe will set me up with accounts in Facebook et al.

I think this is a misguided feature even for people who do participate
in those services. Certainly some participants would want to choose what
information is available about them, and not have Adobe or anyone else
automatically placing data in their accounts.

Guerri
On 12/14/2014 6:33 AM, Tim Lodge wrote:
> Guerri
>
> I don't see a problem with OT messages - I often learn new things from them. Go ahead and ask your question here.
>
> -- Tim L
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3495 / Virus Database: 4235/8704 - Release Date: 12/08/14

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[Guerri Stevens]

Approximately every week or 10 days the Adobe Flash Player demands to be
updated. Yes, I realize that I can (probably) change my settings to stop
that. But my question is this: why are there such frequent updates?
--
Guerri

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[Efrem Mallach]

The recent industry trend is to small, frequent updates rather than rarer, but much larger, ones. If you use Chrome or Firefox as your browser, you will typically see an update every six weeks or so (even if you choose not to install it). Often a package will tell you what's new in the new version, so you can ignore it if you don't need to spell-check Czech, but not always - and sometimes the updates have useful security improvements.

This trend is creating issues for some information technology departments that check out every release of a package before it's deployed to their users. They often choose to deploy every third or fourth release of a package unless there's an urgent security issue that requires deploying an intermediate version right away.

In most cases you can ignore these requests, but there's hardly any harm in accepting them, and it stops the annoying prompts for a while.

Efrem

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> On Nov 12, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Guerri Stevens <guerri (AT) guerristevens (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> Approximately every week or 10 days the Adobe Flash Player demands to be updated. Yes, I realize that I can (probably) change my settings to stop that. But my question is this: why are there such frequent updates?
> --
> Guerri
>
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[Guerri Stevens]

Amazing that we should be updating primarily to stop annoying prompts!

I didn't make a note of the update prompt for the flash player, but
usually the wording says something about "security".

Guerri

On 11/12/2016 10:49 AM, Efrem Mallach wrote:
> The recent industry trend is to small, frequent updates rather than rarer, but much larger, ones. If you use Chrome or Firefox as your browser, you will typically see an update every six weeks or so (even if you choose not to install it). Often a package will tell you what's new in the new version, so you can ignore it if you don't need to spell-check Czech, but not always - and sometimes the updates have useful security improvements.
>
> This trend is creating issues for some information technology departments that check out every release of a package before it's deployed to their users. They often choose to deploy every third or fourth release of a package unless there's an urgent security issue that requires deploying an intermediate version right away.
>
> In most cases you can ignore these requests, but there's hardly any harm in accepting them, and it stops the annoying prompts for a while.
>
> Efrem
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Guerri Stevens <guerri (AT) guerristevens (DOT) com> wrote:
>>
>> Approximately every week or 10 days the Adobe Flash Player demands to be updated. Yes, I realize that I can (probably) change my settings to stop that. But my question is this: why are there such frequent updates?
>> --
>> Guerri
>>
>> --
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[Guerri Stevens]

I didn't make a note of the exact wording of the reason for the update.
As I recall, the reasons almost always, if not always, mention
"security". Regarding the "harm" issue, the harm is the issue of time.
Mine, that is. Admittedly there is not a lot of time involved, but the
updating takes time and dealing with it takes time. It seems to me that
my best course of action is to either read the detailed reason for the
update, which might take more time that installing the thing, or simply
update less frequently. I do make notes of the updates, so it would be
easy, for example, to skip every other one.

I can't remember the last time I updated Firefox. I wonder if I have a
setting that has turned off the update notifications.

Guerri

On 11/12/2016 10:49 AM, Efrem Mallach wrote:
> The recent industry trend is to small, frequent updates rather than rarer, but much larger, ones. If you use Chrome or Firefox as your browser, you will typically see an update every six weeks or so (even if you choose not to install it). Often a package will tell you what's new in the new version, so you can ignore it if you don't need to spell-check Czech, but not always - and sometimes the updates have useful security improvements.
>
> This trend is creating issues for some information technology departments that check out every release of a package before it's deployed to their users. They often choose to deploy every third or fourth release of a package unless there's an urgent security issue that requires deploying an intermediate version right away.
>
> In most cases you can ignore these requests, but there's hardly any harm in accepting them, and it stops the annoying prompts for a while.
>
> Efrem
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> On Nov 12, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Guerri Stevens <guerri (AT) guerristevens (DOT) com> wrote:
>>
>> Approximately every week or 10 days the Adobe Flash Player demands to be updated. Yes, I realize that I can (probably) change my settings to stop that. But my question is this: why are there such frequent updates?
>> --
>> Guerri
>>
>> --
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[davidh]

It's not so very hard for bad guys to put Flash content on legit web sites which content exploits security holes in unpatched Flash installations that allow them to do bad things to your computer and files.

The following Mozilla support article explains how to tell Firefox to ask your permission to run any given particular Flash file/content on your PC. The idea is that if Flash content automatically tries to play on your PC and you yourself did not initiate (click) the request to do so, then this constitutes 'suspicious' behavior and might indicate an attempt to harm you. In which case you could 'protect' yourself by not giving permission when Firefox asks for your permission to play the Flash content in question.

Unfortunately this safety feature is not in older versions of Firefox so you would have to update Firefox (highly recommended).

Flash player is so notoriously buggy and insecure that it would be also highly recommended to both keep it patched up to date AND also make use of this safety feature of Firefox. I personally have all my FF plugins, not just Flash, set to "ask to activate" (or "never activate" i.e. block).


Some websites use Adobe Flash to display content. However, attackers can also use the security flaws in Flash to run malicious sofware on your computer and gain access to your system.

One way to protect yourself is by disabling or removing Flash, but if your trusted websites require Flash, you can change your plugin settings so that Flash runs only when you click to activate it.

Here’s how to set Flash to run on demand:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/set-adobe-flash-click-play-firefox

[Guerri Stevens]

Every time there is a new version of the Flash Player, I get notified.

At the same time I also get a message that my update options have been
changed.

In fact, I *never* change my update options. They are set to "notify
when there's a new version".

Am I missing something here?

What they really mean is "Adobe wants you to set your options to update
automatically" whenever we feel like having you do so, even if we
hijack whatever you happen to be doing at the moment."
--
Guerri

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[Johnb - co.uk]

Guerri

whenever you do update anything from Adobe

a) make sure that when you say 'download' off their screen that you have
un-ticked "install Mcaffee" --- they have defaulted to install ---
personally I think this (words fail me... maybe "pernicious" is correct
for Mcaffee screws up any other malware-detector and is very difficult
to do a totally clean uninstall and get rid of it altogether)

b) having completed the install as you exit it always defaults to
install without asking and you have to change it back to whatever you wish


*JohnnyB
*(I once tried to get rid of Mcafee**and after a control-panel uninstall
followed by a good program that looks for unfulfilled links in the
registry and removes them I then went through my registry by hand -
there were still 283 references to Mcaffee which I removed by hand)

On 28/02/2017 15:09, Guerri Stevens wrote:
> Every time there is a new version of the Flash Player, I get notified.
>
> At the same time I also get a message that my update options have been
> changed.
>
> In fact, I *never* change my update options. They are set to "notify
> when there's a new version".
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> What they really mean is "Adobe wants you to set your options to
> update automatically" whenever we feel like having you do so, even if
> we hijack whatever you happen to be doing at the moment."

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[Guerri Stevens]

Whose computer is it, anyway?

I notice the McAfee thing every time and I uncheck it every time. Maybe
that is what they mean about having changed my update options. I would
not consider that an update option, but what do I know? Less and less as
time goes by. I'm not sure "pernicious" is a strong enough word.

Guerri

On 2/28/2017 11:41 AM, Johnb - co.uk wrote:
>
> Guerri
>
> whenever you do update anything from Adobe
>
> a) make sure that when you say 'download' off their screen that you
> have un-ticked "install Mcaffee" --- they have defaulted to install
> --- personally I think this (words fail me... maybe "pernicious" is
> correct for Mcaffee screws up any other malware-detector and is very
> difficult to do a totally clean uninstall and get rid of it altogether)
>
> b) having completed the install as you exit it always defaults to
> install without asking and you have to change it back to whatever you wish
>
>
> *JohnnyB
> *(I once tried to get rid of Mcafee**and after a control-panel
> uninstall followed by a good program that looks for unfulfilled links
> in the registry and removes them I then went through my registry by
> hand - there were still 283 references to Mcaffee which I removed by
> hand)
>

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