[Dixonary] OT: looking for telex videos

[Jim Hart]

When google doesn't work I turn to Dixonary for obscure technical stuff.
I'm hoping someone here can help me find a video showing what telex
machines of the 60s or 70s or even early 80s looked like, ie before they
got killed of by the fax.

Ideally I'd like it to be the 'classic' electromechanical telex. ASR-32
or 33 seem to be typical models. We had one at our office for a year or
two in the early 80s - it was a big metal box (grey from memory, maybe
blue?) that made a wonderful noise, first a low-key chk-chk-chk when an
incoming message woke it up followed by a raucous clack-clack as the
typing began. Sophisticated quiet electronic models were available by
then but we were happy with the low-cost base model that hadn't changed
much in at least 20 years.

Why the quest? The other night a bunch of friends got together to watch
'Local Hero' which most of you may recall was an early 80s movie about a
young oil executive who gets sent to Scotland to close a deal. He
resents going and would prefer to stay in Houston and do it all over the
wires, ie phone and telex. At one point he says to his Scottish
colleague "I'm more of a telex man myself. I need electricity." Which
really dates the movie of course. That and phones with cords.

Talking to two of my friends later I was kind of shocked to find that
they didn't really know what telex was - might have heard of it in their
childhood perhaps but had never actually seen it in action let alone
knew how it worked. And these are intelligent men not that much younger
than me - well OK, they were born in the 60s so they are barely out of
adolescence, whereas I'm a classic baby-boomer - a 49er to be precise.

So I went to google and I went to youtube thinking surely there will be
plenty of old video to illustrate how telex worked, maybe some
advertising documentary from a phone company, something that would show
the wonders of this technology. Very disappointing - all I found were a
few shots of messages being printed out, a bit of paper tape being
punched, but nothing that usefully demonstrated the simple sequence of
preparing a message offline on tape, calling up the recipient,
transmitting the tape, and then seeing how it arrived at the other end.
And no clack-clack.

I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Any suggestions?

Jim



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[Stephen Dixon]

I think, in the movie *Charlie Wilson's War, *Charlie pulls a news bulletin
off a Telex that used to be somewhere i the halls of the Russell Building.
If that's the machine you are looking for, it would be the highest fidelity
image.

I'm pretty sure they showed at least a partial image of one typing out a
message in *Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.* It occurs when the big political
machine starts its smear campaign to silence Jefferson Smith.

Got Washington DC on the brain. I am headed there, today.


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Jim Hart <jfshart (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> When google doesn't work I turn to Dixonary for obscure technical stuff.
> I'm hoping someone here can help me find a video showing what telex
> machines of the 60s or 70s or even early 80s looked like, ie before they
> got killed of by the fax.
>
> Ideally I'd like it to be the 'classic' electromechanical telex. ASR-32 or
> 33 seem to be typical models. We had one at our office for a year or two in
> the early 80s - it was a big metal box (grey from memory, maybe blue?) that
> made a wonderful noise, first a low-key chk-chk-chk when an incoming
> message woke it up followed by a raucous clack-clack as the typing began.
> Sophisticated quiet electronic models were available by then but we were
> happy with the low-cost base model that hadn't changed much in at least 20
> years.
>
> Why the quest? The other night a bunch of friends got together to watch
> 'Local Hero' which most of you may recall was an early 80s movie about a
> young oil executive who gets sent to Scotland to close a deal. He resents
> going and would prefer to stay in Houston and do it all over the wires, ie
> phone and telex. At one point he says to his Scottish colleague "I'm more
> of a telex man myself. I need electricity." Which really dates the movie of
> course. That and phones with cords.
>
> Talking to two of my friends later I was kind of shocked to find that they
> didn't really know what telex was - might have heard of it in their
> childhood perhaps but had never actually seen it in action let alone knew
> how it worked. And these are intelligent men not that much younger than me
> - well OK, they were born in the 60s so they are barely out of adolescence,
> whereas I'm a classic baby-boomer - a 49er to be precise.
>
> So I went to google and I went to youtube thinking surely there will be
> plenty of old video to illustrate how telex worked, maybe some advertising
> documentary from a phone company, something that would show the wonders of
> this technology. Very disappointing - all I found were a few shots of
> messages being printed out, a bit of paper tape being punched, but nothing
> that usefully demonstrated the simple sequence of preparing a message
> offline on tape, calling up the recipient, transmitting the tape, and then
> seeing how it arrived at the other end. And no clack-clack.
>
> I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Any suggestions?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
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--
Stephen Dixon
email: stevedixon46 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

--- Ignorance and smugness are usually found together, like dampness and
mold. ---

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[endash@verizon.net]

Try this URL: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=telex&amp;qpvt=telex&amp;FORM=IGRE

When I ws doing some new beroadcasting over the university radio station back in the 1950s, I would get the copy right off our telext and edit it for my broad cast. As I recall, we had only terminals that printed the text out on continues paper. I don't think we had any sending capability.





&nbsp;



&nbsp;





On 07/21/14, Jim Hart&lt;jfshart (AT) gmail (DOT) com&gt; wrote:

&nbsp;



When google doesn't work I turn to Dixonary for obscure technical stuff.
I'm hoping someone here can help me find a video showing what telex
machines of the 60s or 70s or even early 80s looked like, ie before they
got killed of by the fax.

Ideally I'd like it to be the 'classic' electromechanical telex. ASR-32
or 33 seem to be typical models. We had one at our office for a year or
two in the early 80s - it was a big metal box (grey from memory, maybe
blue?) that made a wonderful noise, first a low-key chk-chk-chk when an
incoming message woke it up followed by a raucous clack-clack as the
typing began. Sophisticated quiet electronic models were available by
then but we were happy with the low-cost base model that hadn't changed
much in at least 20 years.

Why the quest? The other night a bunch of friends got together to watch
'Local Hero' which most of you may recall was an early 80s movie about a
young oil executive who gets sent to Scotland to close a deal. He
resents going and would prefer to stay in Houston and do it all over the
wires, ie phone and telex. At one point he says to his Scottish
colleague &quot;I'm more of a telex man myself. I need electricity.&quot; Which
really dates the movie of course. That and phones with cords.

Talking to two of my friends later I was kind of shocked to find that
they didn't really know what telex was - might have heard of it in their
childhood perhaps but had never actually seen it in action let alone
knew how it worked. And these are intelligent men not that much younger
than me - well OK, they were born in the 60s so they are barely out of
adolescence, whereas I'm a classic baby-boomer - a 49er to be precise.

So I went to google and I went to youtube thinking surely there will be
plenty of old video to illustrate how telex worked, maybe some
advertising documentary from a phone company, something that would show
the wonders of this technology. Very disappointing - all I found were a
few shots of messages being printed out, a bit of paper tape being
punched, but nothing that usefully demonstrated the simple sequence of
preparing a message offline on tape, calling up the recipient,
transmitting the tape, and then seeing how it arrived at the other end.
And no clack-clack.

I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Any suggestions?

Jim



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[Jim Hart]

Thanks Steve, I'll have a look. Still hoping to find something more
descriptive rather than incidental.
Jim


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[Efrem Mallach]

As I recall those things from back in the day, there were two versions. The base model was the KSR, Keyboard Send-Receive. Adding the optional paper tape equipment turned it into an ASR, Automatic (Automated?) Send-Receive. I don't recall a model 32, but the 33 ran at 10 characters/second (plenty to keep up with human typists) while the 35 went up to 300 (about as fast as the modems of the day could transmit). The 35s had the characters on an ingenious 4x16 grid. The desired character was positioned in front of a single pin that pushed it into an inked ribbon. Neat stuff.

I found a video of a telex printing from a paper tape here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMbGzBf2JrU and a longer one, with close-up shots of the ASR-35 mechanism, here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFMQ1qT_RFM . Those are probably like the ones you found, perhaps the same ones. Also found a lot of stuff about a Belgian pop band named Telex. Who would have guessed?

I also found this video about preparing a radiotelegram http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYelNQduHQc . It's not Telex gear, but it's similar, and it goes through the whole process. (Narrated by someone old enough to have used the technology when it was the latest thing.) Maybe it will help demonstrate the process.

Good luck,

Efrem

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Jul 21, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Jim Hart <jfshart (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> When google doesn't work I turn to Dixonary for obscure technical stuff. I'm hoping someone here can help me find a video showing what telex machines of the 60s or 70s or even early 80s looked like, ie before they got killed of by the fax.
>
> Ideally I'd like it to be the 'classic' electromechanical telex. ASR-32 or 33 seem to be typical models. We had one at our office for a year or two in the early 80s - it was a big metal box (grey from memory, maybe blue?) that made a wonderful noise, first a low-key chk-chk-chk when an incoming message woke it up followed by a raucous clack-clack as the typing began. Sophisticated quiet electronic models were available by then but we were happy with the low-cost base model that hadn't changed much in at least 20 years.
>
> Why the quest? The other night a bunch of friends got together to watch 'Local Hero' which most of you may recall was an early 80s movie about a young oil executive who gets sent to Scotland to close a deal. He resents going and would prefer to stay in Houston and do it all over the wires, ie phone and telex. At one point he says to his Scottish colleague "I'm more of a telex man myself. I need electricity." Which really dates the movie of course. That and phones with cords.
>
> Talking to two of my friends later I was kind of shocked to find that they didn't really know what telex was - might have heard of it in their childhood perhaps but had never actually seen it in action let alone knew how it worked. And these are intelligent men not that much younger than me - well OK, they were born in the 60s so they are barely out of adolescence, whereas I'm a classic baby-boomer - a 49er to be precise.
>
> So I went to google and I went to youtube thinking surely there will be plenty of old video to illustrate how telex worked, maybe some advertising documentary from a phone company, something that would show the wonders of this technology. Very disappointing - all I found were a few shots of messages being printed out, a bit of paper tape being punched, but nothing that usefully demonstrated the simple sequence of preparing a message offline on tape, calling up the recipient, transmitting the tape, and then seeing how it arrived at the other end. And no clack-clack.
>
> I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Any suggestions?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
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[Efrem Mallach]

Duh ... of course.

All I can offer by way of apology (though this wasn't addressed to me personally, perhaps out of courtesy) is "it's been a while."

Efrem

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Jul 21, 2014, at 11:17 AM, "Steve Graham" <sdsgraham (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> I think you mean "Teletype or "teleprinter," rather than "Telex," Dick.
>
> "Telex" was a switched service run by the PTT (telephone company) rather than a particular make of machine and my experience is that the service was not well-known in the U.S., despite being universal elsewhere.
>
> As you can see from the photos in the link you provide, it was not restricted to any one make of machine.
>
> Both my outfit (AP) and UPI provided keyboard-less (receive-only) Teletype M15 teleprnters for receive-only operation on their dedicated circuits to broadcast stations for many years.
>
> The ASR-series machines from Teletype were quite versatile, including their use as computer terminals with early computers. See: http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml
>
>
> Steve Graham
>
> From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of endash (AT) verizon (DOT) net
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 07:23
> To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [Dixonary] OT: looking for telex videos
>
> Try this URL: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=telex&qpvt=telex&FORM=IGRE
>
> When I ws doing some new beroadcasting over the university radio station back in the 1950s, I would get the copy right off our telext and edit it for my broad cast. As I recall, we had only terminals that printed the text out on continues paper. I don't think we had any sending capability.
>
> it https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
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[Johnb - co.uk]

This isn't going to be helpful but it is memory.

1961: my first computer (after a 66 sequence front-panel switch boot)
read from a paper tape reader. It only produced paper-tape output which
we had to put through a telex to read it. PT punches were slower that
the telex so we couldn't just link the two together.

Later (1968) on a much bigger machine I was part of a small group who
were experimenting with remote access to the computer - using land-line
linked teletypes - they were identical to the operators console on the
machine itself (and the first program we had to write was to let the
main console override the remotes and in fact refuse some instructions
from them) ... then the game was to cause operator panic by finding ways
to send the machine into a loop or some apparently random behaviour. My
favourite success was to load a small program which seized memory every
time it was accessed... and as all program names were 4 characters call
it xxx<space> - it was a bright operator who worked out that he needed
the space on the command DEL ABC - meanwhile each time they tried and
got it wrong the computer had less and less available memory - it only
had 96K to begin with. Later when the hardware methodology was
established the system was widened but now only primitive BASIC was
interactive (with ALGOL, FORTRAN and COBOL allowed for job submission)

*JohnnyB

*
On 21/07/2014 10:20, Jim Hart wrote:
> When google doesn't work I turn to Dixonary for obscure technical
> stuff. I'm hoping someone here can help me find a video showing what
> telex machines of the 60s or 70s or even early 80s looked like, ie
> before they got killed of by the fax.
>
> Ideally I'd like it to be the 'classic' electromechanical telex.
> ASR-32 or 33 seem to be typical models. We had one at our office for a
> year or two in the early 80s - it was a big metal box (grey from
> memory, maybe blue?) that made a wonderful noise, first a low-key
> chk-chk-chk when an incoming message woke it up followed by a raucous
> clack-clack as the typing began. Sophisticated quiet electronic models
> were available by then but we were happy with the low-cost base model
> that hadn't changed much in at least 20 years.
>
> Why the quest? The other night a bunch of friends got together to
> watch 'Local Hero' which most of you may recall was an early 80s movie
> about a young oil executive who gets sent to Scotland to close a deal.
> He resents going and would prefer to stay in Houston and do it all
> over the wires, ie phone and telex. At one point he says to his
> Scottish colleague "I'm more of a telex man myself. I need
> electricity." Which really dates the movie of course. That and phones
> with cords.
>
> Talking to two of my friends later I was kind of shocked to find that
> they didn't really know what telex was - might have heard of it in
> their childhood perhaps but had never actually seen it in action let
> alone knew how it worked. And these are intelligent men not that much
> younger than me - well OK, they were born in the 60s so they are
> barely out of adolescence, whereas I'm a classic baby-boomer - a 49er
> to be precise.
>
> So I went to google and I went to youtube thinking surely there will
> be plenty of old video to illustrate how telex worked, maybe some
> advertising documentary from a phone company, something that would
> show the wonders of this technology. Very disappointing - all I found
> were a few shots of messages being printed out, a bit of paper tape
> being punched, but nothing that usefully demonstrated the simple
> sequence of preparing a message offline on tape, calling up the
> recipient, transmitting the tape, and then seeing how it arrived at
> the other end. And no clack-clack.
>
> I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Any suggestions?
>
> Jim
>
>
>

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[Efrem Mallach]

Around 1963, Applied Logic Corporation of Princeton, N.J., ordered one of the first PDP-6 computers. (The PDP-6 was a large machine for the day, the predecessor of the better-known PDP-10.) The Digital sales rep had touted how this new computer was device-independent: any file could be sent to or read from any type of device. You didn't need any specific peripherals, the machine would work with what it had. Applied Logic didn't need a paper tape reader, so they didn't order one.

Anyhow, it turned out that PDP-6 device independence was real - once its OS was up and running. Unfortunately, paper tape was hard-coded into the hardware boot sequence. Working around that would have cost Digital a lot more than $2,000, so they gave Applied Logic a free paper tape reader. They probably also gave their sales reps an updated sales reference manual.

Memories ...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Jul 21, 2014, at 11:35 AM, "Johnb - co.uk" <johnb (AT) john-barrs (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

> This isn't going to be helpful but it is memory.
>
> 1961: my first computer (after a 66 sequence front-panel switch boot) read from a paper tape reader. It only produced paper-tape output ...

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[Efrem Mallach]

Spoken like a true curmudgeon. Welcome to the club.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On Jul 21, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Steve Graham <sdsgraham (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

....

> At least back in those days, the aisles of supermarkets weren't blocked by texting teenagers........
>
>
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[endash@verizon.net]

Could be. It was a very long time ago, and the machines and wire services we used were as you describe.




&nbsp;





On 07/21/14, Steve Graham&lt;sdsgraham (AT) gmail (DOT) com&gt; wrote:

&nbsp;







I think you mean &quot;Teletype or &quot;teleprinter,&quot;&nbsp; rather than &quot;Telex,&quot;&nbsp; Dick.



&nbsp;



&quot;Telex&quot;&nbsp; was a switched service run by the PTT (telephone company) rather than a particular make of machine and my experience is that the service was not well-known in the U.S., despite being universal elsewhere.



&nbsp;



As you can see from the photos in the link you provide, it was not restricted to any one make of machine.



&nbsp;



Both my outfit (AP) and UPI provided keyboard-less (receive-only) Teletype M15 teleprnters for receive-only operation on their dedicated circuits to broadcast stations for many years.



&nbsp;



The ASR-series machines from Teletype were quite versatile, including their use as computer terminals with early computers. See: http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml



&nbsp;



&nbsp;



Steve Graham



&nbsp;





From: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com [mailto:dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of endash (AT) verizon (DOT) net
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 07:23
To: dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] OT: looking for telex videos





&nbsp;







Try this URL: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=telex&amp;qpvt=telex&amp;FORM=IGRE

When I ws doing some new beroadcasting over the university radio station back in the 1950s, I would get the copy right off our telext and edit it for my broad cast. As I recall, we had only terminals that printed the text out on continues paper. I don't think we had any sending capability.







it https://groups.google.com/d/optout.







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[Tony Abell]

On 2014-07-21 at 11:17 Steve Graham wrote:

> "Telex"* was a switched service run by the PTT (telephone company) rather
> than a particular make of machine and my experience is that the service was
> not well-known in the U.S., despite being universal elsewhere.

I think this is correct. The name Telex does not have strong associations for
me. I think of it as being vaguely associated with what I knew as Teletype
machines or that kind of service, but I was never quite sure.

IIRC, Teletype was uppercase letters only. To this day, the National Weather
Service issues its various forecast products in uppercase letters only, even
though they are mostly distributed through systems that allow mixed case.
Perhaps there are still some channels accessed through Teletype or some even
more primitive system.

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[Jim Hart]

Thanks to everyone for the links, comments and general discussion. I've
been a bit occupied on other work (and nursing a persistent cold) for a day
or two so it was a pleasant surprise to see so many responses this morning.

Steve, I'd forgotten that telex wasn't as widely used in the US as it was
elsewhere. As I found when we (ie Lonely Planet) first opened an office in
California in the early 80s and I was trying to find a local bureau to
send/receive telexes. The problem was soon irrelevant thanks to the fax but
in the meantime I had a crash course in data comms via the serial port on
our state-of-the-art 8-bit Kaypros.

Jim




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