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Jim Hart
May 28th, 2012, 10:10 AM
Since there are clearly several knowledgable and experienced Thunderbird
users here, perhaps someone can shed a little light here.

Background: I'm a recent Tbird convert. I use it at home on my newish
laptop (Win7) with an IMAP link to my Gmail account. Other times I read my
mail directly on the gmail site.

Today the indexing seems to have gone awry.

Example 1. A daily newsletter appeared as usual in the inbox - subject,
sender, time all consistent with each other but when I opened it the
content was totally different - a note from about three years ago to do
with (coincidentally) Coryphaeus.

Ex 2. Inbox list showed an email from a friend with a fwd from someone else
and dated today. Sender and subject matched the content but the date was in
fact much older. Not surprisingly the link in the message no longer worked.

Ex. 3. Subject and date agreed with the content but Tbird changed the
sender. (It did seem odd that mail about this week's New Yorker should be
sent from Australian Flight Safety magazine!)

My prime suspect is this afternoon I allowed Tbird to compact the folders.
Could this be the cause? However two (possibly all three) of the problems
noted above arrived after the compacting was done.

Fortunately this hasn't affected the mail on the gmail server, my inbox at
the Gmail site is looking perfectly normal and provides a reliable backup.

Any thoughts about why and what to do about it? And BTW as you might guess
my inbox is a bit of a misnomer - mail goes in there and mostly it later
gets filed elsewhere but some random things seem to hang around
indefinitely. The Coryphaeus item was an extreme example and was in fact
the very oldest message in there - is that a clue?


Jim

John Barrs
May 28th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Jim

all I can say at the moment is that my comment about guerri "from address"
changing overnight was nothing to do with TB - all this email is only read
in gmail (ie on-site) --- my only explanation is that gmail must have
changed the addressing when it rethreaded the stuff - and I will admit that
I do not trust google not to change things retroactively - the penalty one
pays for leaving things on their servers - I have evidence of long ago
changes by comparing downloaded archived on my computer threads and what is
there in those accounts now - not a loss of content but date-stamp changes
and a reordering and re-threading... As a software developer, all really
important stuff is sealed, snailmailed to self and date-stamped that way
and then the still-sealed mailed stuff is stored in bank vaults... this has
saved me a couple of litigations

As far as TB is concerned, I only use pop3 and I usually (but not always)
do an onsite "archive on send"

JohnnyB

On 28 May 2012 16:10, Jim Hart <jfshart (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Since there are clearly several knowledgable and experienced Thunderbird
> users here, perhaps someone can shed a little light here.
>
> Background: I'm a recent Tbird convert. I use it at home on my newish
> laptop (Win7) with an IMAP link to my Gmail account. Other times I read my
> mail directly on the gmail site.
>
> Today the indexing seems to have gone awry.
>
> Example 1. A daily newsletter appeared as usual in the inbox - subject,
> sender, time all consistent with each other but when I opened it the
> content was totally different - a note from about three years ago to do
> with (coincidentally) Coryphaeus.
>
> Ex 2. Inbox list showed an email from a friend with a fwd from someone
> else and dated today. Sender and subject matched the content but the date
> was in fact much older. Not surprisingly the link in the message no longer
> worked.
>
> Ex. 3. Subject and date agreed with the content but Tbird changed the
> sender. (It did seem odd that mail about this week's New Yorker should be
> sent from Australian Flight Safety magazine!)
>
> My prime suspect is this afternoon I allowed Tbird to compact the folders.
> Could this be the cause? However two (possibly all three) of the problems
> noted above arrived after the compacting was done.
>
> Fortunately this hasn't affected the mail on the gmail server, my inbox at
> the Gmail site is looking perfectly normal and provides a reliable backup.
>
> Any thoughts about why and what to do about it? And BTW as you might guess
> my inbox is a bit of a misnomer - mail goes in there and mostly it later
> gets filed elsewhere but some random things seem to hang around
> indefinitely. The Coryphaeus item was an extreme example and was in fact
> the very oldest message in there - is that a clue?
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Guerri Stevens
May 28th, 2012, 01:56 PM
I don't use IMAP myself, so if that has something to do with your
problem, I can't help. Not that I can help anyway <g>. For most of my
Gmail accounts, I have Tbird collect messages and delete them from the
server ("leave on server" not checked). I figure that if I lost
something, it would still be in the trash at Gmail. Assuming it was
discovered within 30 days - Gmail claims to delete stuff that's been
there longer, but I don't think that is strictly true. FWIW, my
tapcis.com Email account was really Gmail behind the scenes.

Guerri

Jim Hart wrote:
> Since there are clearly several knowledgable and experienced Thunderbird
> users here, perhaps someone can shed a little light here.
>
> Background: I'm a recent Tbird convert. I use it at home on my newish
> laptop (Win7) with an IMAP link to my Gmail account. Other times I read
> my mail directly on the gmail site.
>
> Today the indexing seems to have gone awry.
> ...

Dodi Schultz
May 28th, 2012, 04:53 PM
On 5/28/2012 11:10 AM, Jim Hart wrote:
> Since there are clearly several knowledgable and experienced Thunderbird
> users here, perhaps someone can shed a little light here.

I've been using Tbird for ages (currently 11.0, Win 7), which makes me
experienced, I guess, but hardly knowledgeable.

> Background: I'm a recent Tbird convert. I use it at home on my newish
> laptop (Win7) with an IMAP link to my Gmail account. Other times I read
> my mail directly on the gmail site.

I never go to Verizon's site (that's my ISP); I rely on Tbird to fetch the
mail.

> Today the indexing seems to have gone awry.

I don't know what indexing is, but what you describe (opening mail and
finding the content to be something totally unconnected to what the header
says) has never happened to me. And I am grateful, because I'd be in a
state of extreme panic. Not to mention hysteria.

> My prime suspect is this afternoon I allowed Tbird to compact the
> folders. Could this be the cause? However two (possibly all three) of the
> problems noted above arrived after the compacting was done.

I see that "compacting" is a choice under "File", but I don't know what it
is, so I doubt if I'd do it. What is it, and what is its purpose? I'd sure
figure that if I did something, and then weird stuff happened, the weird
stuff probably resulted from the something I'd done. So I'd try to undo it.
Can "compacting" be undone?

Jim Hart
May 28th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Thanks Dodi.

> I never go to Verizon's site (that's my ISP); I rely on Tbird to fetch
the mail.

I use both: Tbird (and previously Outlookexpress) to pick up the mail for
my home computer, and the server when I'm elsewhere or at times like this
as a backup.

> I don't know what indexing is,

I don't know if that's the official name. Tbird must use some kind of
indexed database so you can sort by sender, date, subject or whatever.

> I see that "compacting" is a choice under "File", but I don't know what
it is, so I doubt if I'd do it.

I didn't go looking for it, Tbird suggested it when I opened the program
yesterday and I said OK. AFIK it's a process where it rewrites the files to
eliminate deleted emails and other 'holes' so as to enhance storage and
efficiency. Sort of like defragmenting your hard disk on a smaller scale.

> Can "compacting" be undone?

Don't know but probably not. However I could always empty the inbox on my
computer and download again from the Gmail server. Which would be tedious
so I'll wait and see if there's a simpler way. If it seems to be a
momentary glitch yesterday it would be simpler just to reload the few
offenders - if I can.

It may also be something to do with now having an IMAP connection (not a
POP account as I did with Outlook) which supposedly keeps my local files in
sync with the server.

We shall see.

Jim Hart
May 28th, 2012, 07:12 PM
Johnny - thanks for your comments.

I didn't think my problem was in any way related to Guerri's, but hers
reminded me that there are a few experienced Thunderbirders in these parts.

> my only explanation is that gmail must have changed the addressing when
it rethreaded the stuff -

No, it's not Gmail's fault it was Tbird that compacted (?) the local files.
The files on the Gmail server are OK and are now my backup.

> I do not trust google not to change things retroactively - the penalty
one pays for leaving things on their servers - I have evidence of long ago
changes

Interesting, and the reverse of my problem. I wouldn't rely on them as a
long-term archive but I've never known any problem in the shorter term of
say a couple of years, not that I've had reason to really analyse it.

> As a software developer, all really important stuff is sealed,
snailmailed to self and date-stamped that way and then the still-sealed
mailed stuff is stored in bank vaults... this has saved me a couple of
litigations

That is extremely thorough. Is this to establish that you wrote the
software on a particular date? - essential for copyright disputes I imagine.

As I mentioned to Dodi, I think it's just a minor glitch in my local
database files, so it's easier to reload a couple of individual emails not
worry about redbuilding it all from scratch. (Pile driver vs peanut, or
some such analogy.)

Jim

Dodi Schultz
May 28th, 2012, 07:27 PM
On 5/28/2012 7:56 PM, Jim Hart wrote:

> I don't know if [indexing is] the official name. Tbird must use some kind
> of indexed database so you can sort by sender, date, subject or whatever.

Hm. I just told it to list stuff in the inbox (and, for that matter, in
"Sent" and all other places) in chronological order.

> I didn't go looking for [compacting], Tbird suggested it when I opened
> the program yesterday and I said OK. AFAIK it's a process where it
> rewrites the files to eliminate deleted emails and other 'holes' so as to
> enhance storage and efficiency. Sort of like defragmenting your hard disk
> on a smaller scale.

When I delete stuff from the Inbox or anywhere, it goes to "Trash". When I
delete stuff from "Trash" (which I try to remember to do every couple of
days), I assume it goes to that wastepaper basket on the desktop. I don't
know where it goes from there, but the basket never seems to overflow.
(Where /does/ it go from there?) (And did the word "does" come through in
Italics for you?)

BTW: I got two copies of your message, since a cc: to me personally was
indicated. I definitely think that's some dumb thing GoogleGroups is doing.
As this leaves here, it is addressed only to Dixonary; no copy to you or
anyone else.

Guerri Stevens
May 29th, 2012, 06:08 AM
Dodi, yes the "does" did come through in italics, although the word was
surrounded by slashes (/). I assume those are how one asks for italics,
as one asks for bold by using *asterisks*.

It appears that the CC issue is still alive and well with none of us
having found a common theme to it. But that's a discussion elsewhere.

Guerri

Dodi Schultz wrote:
> ...
> When I delete stuff from the Inbox or anywhere, it goes to "Trash". When
> I delete stuff from "Trash" (which I try to remember to do every couple
> of days), I assume it goes to that wastepaper basket on the desktop. I
> don't know where it goes from there, but the basket never seems to
> overflow. (Where /does/ it go from there?) (And did the word "does" come
> through in Italics for you?)
>
> BTW: I got two copies of your message, since a cc: to me personally was
> indicated. I definitely think that's some dumb thing GoogleGroups is
> doing. As this leaves here, it is addressed only to Dixonary; no copy to
> you or anyone else.
>
>
>
>

Dodi Schultz
May 29th, 2012, 07:25 AM
On 5/29/2012 7:08 AM, Guerri Stevens wrote:
> Dodi, yes the "does" did come through in italics, although the word was
> surrounded by slashes (/). I assume those are how one asks for italics,
> as one asks for bold by using *asterisks*.

The message didn't leave here with slashes; I think that was done by
Google. No matter. I was just curious.

> It appears that the CC issue is still alive and well with none of us
> having found a common theme to it. But that's a discussion elsewhere.

I received only one copy of your message above. No cc: to me was indicated.

Jim Hart
May 29th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Dodi,

> [indexing] Hm. I just told it to list stuff in the inbox ... in
chronological order.

That's what I do except if need to sort by sender to find something. Either
way there are probably index files to make it happen.

> When I delete stuff from the Inbox or anywhere, it goes to "Trash".

'Delete' is relative. The Tbird trash folder is just another folder so you
can open it if you wish, like retrieving a piece of paper from the waste
basket beside your desk. The Windows trash folder on your desktop is more
like the big dirty bin outside your apartment - accessible if you
absolutely have to but only until the big truck takes it all to a toxic
landfill site. Whatever happens, deleted emails leave untidy files that
Tbird later likes to clean up. Or something like that - remember, I make
this stuff up.

> where /does/ it go from there?) (And did the word "does" come through in
Italics for you?)

No italics on the Google groups site. Possibly in tomorrow's email digest
version.

> BTW: I got two copies of your message, since a cc: to me personally was
indicated.

This time the cc is definitely not checked, so you should only get the one
to Dixonary.

Jim

Dodi Schultz
May 29th, 2012, 12:28 PM
On 5/29/2012 8:59 AM, Jim Hart wrote:
> Dodi,
>
> > [indexing] Hm. I just told it to list stuff in the inbox ... in
> chronological order.
>
> That's what I do except if need to sort by sender to find something.
> Either way there are probably index files to make it happen.

Being compulsive, I handle all the stuff in my inbox in some way as soon as
I see it. "Handle" doesn't mean "answer." (If it needs an answer and I can
do so briefly and instantly, I do.) Most gets immediately deleted. For
other stuff, the tags are wonderfully helpful (I killed the titles Tbird
assigned to them, because they didn't correspond to my needs). Red, for
example, means it's pretty urgent. Blue is a communication from a friend /
regular correspondent that I'll answer in the fairly-soon future. The other
colors (and I've created some additional ones) mean various other things,
like keep this in the in-box for a while, et al. I also have folders in the
left-hand column for people and subjects I deal with repeatedly; that
includes a Dixonary folder, to which all defs and votes get dragged when
I'm dealing, for my reference and in case questions arise.

> 'Delete' is relative. The Tbird trash folder is just another folder so
> you can open it if you wish, like retrieving a piece of paper from the
> waste basket beside your desk.

Yes, I realize that (especially when I've sent something there by mistake).

> The Windows trash folder on your desktop is more like the big dirty bin
> outside your apartment - accessible if you absolutely have to but only
> until the big truck takes it all to a toxic landfill site.

How and when should one summon the big truck?

P.S.: The unwanted cc:'s seem to have ceased! (Of course now that I've said
that, we'll see another one pop up.)

—Dodi

Guerri Stevens
May 29th, 2012, 07:13 PM
Yes, you did receive only one message from me (no cc). But the ccs were
never in my messages, and I think only a few players were affected.

Guerri

Dodi Schultz wrote:
>
> I received only one copy of your message above. No cc: to me was indicated.
>
>
>

Jim Hart
May 29th, 2012, 07:15 PM
No italics in the mail digest version either, just plain /does/ with
slashes both times.


On Tuesday, 29 May 2012 10:27:18 UTC+10, Dodi Schultz wrote:
>
> (Where /does/ it go from there?) (And did the word "does" come through in
> Italics for you?)
>

Jim Hart
May 29th, 2012, 07:23 PM
Dodi:

> How and when should one summon the big truck?

You don't need to. I think Bill Gates does it when you're not looking. But
you can do it yourself if you wish. Right-click on the recycle bin on the
desktop, select "empty bin". But even then all that happens is Bill puts a
'vacant' sign on those bits of the disk to show they can be used for other
data. Until they get written over a data sleuth could with not much effort
reconstruct the 'deleted' data. Copy everything on to a backup disk and
reformat if you are feeling paranoid about your privacy.

- Jim

Dodi Schultz
May 29th, 2012, 07:36 PM
On 5/29/2012 8:23 PM, Jim Hart wrote:
> Dodi:
>
> > How and when should one summon the big truck?
>
> You don't need to. I think Bill Gates does it when you're not looking.
> But you can do it yourself if you wish. Right-click on the recycle bin on
> the desktop, select "empty bin". But even then all that happens is Bill
> puts a 'vacant' sign on those bits of the disk to show they can be used
> for other data. Until they get written over a data sleuth could with not
> much effort reconstruct the 'deleted' data. Copy everything on to a
> backup disk and reformat if you are feeling paranoid about your privacy.

Uh-oh. This one arrived in duplicate, with an indicated cc: to me. I
thought GG had got that weird thing straightened out. Guess not.

Thanks for the information about the recycle bin. I was just curious. Nah,
not paranoid. The stuff I've deleted is worth nothing to me, let alone
anyone else. And I use so few pieces of software that my disk is mostly
undeveloped real estate.

Jim Hart
May 29th, 2012, 10:01 PM
> Uh-oh. This one arrived in duplicate, with an indicated cc: to me. I
thought GG had got that weird thing straightened out. Guess not.

Partly my fault, partly GG's. For some reason when I reply to your messages
GG adds the cc: line by default. I can deselect ths if I remember which
obviously I didn't. Yet for most (all?) other replies it does not add a
cc: though I could select one if I want to. Don't know what determines it,
or if you are the only lucky recipent.

Jim

Dodi Schultz
May 29th, 2012, 10:42 PM
On 5/29/2012 11:01 PM, Jim Hart wrote:
> > Uh-oh. This one arrived in duplicate, with an indicated cc: to me. I
> thought GG had got that weird thing straightened out. Guess not.
>
> Partly my fault, partly GG's. For some reason when I reply to your
> messages GG adds the cc: line by default. I can deselect ths if I
> remember which obviously I didn't. Yet for most (all?) other replies it
> does not add a cc: though I could select one if I want to. Don't know
> what determines it, or if you are the only lucky recipient.

Hm. If you direct-reply to a Dixonary message posted by Guerri, does SHE
get the dupe then?

Jim Hart
May 29th, 2012, 11:43 PM
Dodi:

> Hm. If you direct-reply to a Dixonary message posted by Guerri, does SHE
get the dupe then?

No, and nor judging by a quick random test do most players. But a test
reply to (e.g.) Tim B would. And further mystery: sometimes the cc: is to
dixonary and the individual, sometimes to one or the other.





>
>
>

Guerri Stevens
May 30th, 2012, 07:20 AM
This probably belongs in a separate discussion, but ...

Do we think this cc business is a Tbird issue or a Google Groups issue?
At the moment, it is happening to Jim, and it happens when he replies to
a message posted to the group by Dodi. It doesn't happen when he
composes a brand new message and it doesn't happen when he replies to a
message posted to the group by anyone else (me, for instance). Jim, is
that a correct statement?

If so, it seems unlikely to me that it could be a Google Groups issue.

However, there is a "new" Google Groups. Did you switch to that Jim? Did
Dodi switch to it? I have not switched. If either of you did switch, it
is possible that there are new settings in the group that could be
affecting you. I'd expect that they would be things you would have to
set up, though, especially as the problem is not universal, and I'd
expect the cc would be added by Google as the message arrived there, not
while Jim is creating it.

Here is some of my thinking: I am assuming Jim is using Thunderbird to
create his messages. If so, I would suspect Tbird to be adding the cc,
not Google. After all, you could be reading and creating replies to
messages without even having the internet turned on. And even if you
were connected to the Internet, if Google were putting that cc in your
message while you were creating the message in Tbird, that is akin to
saying Google could put something into your spreadsheet in Excel or your
document while you're writing in Word.

Come to think of it, Jim is saying when he goes to reply to a group
message, the cc is automatically placed in his reply, at least for
messages from Dodi to which he's replying. Jim, is that correct - the
cc is there when you write the message, not appearing after it is sent?
If so, that sounds to me more like some problem with Thunderbird, if
that's what you're using. How do you go about replying - do you click on
"reply", press Ctrl+R, use the Message menu? Do you Send or do you do a
"send later"?

I did a quick search of the Tbird settings to see if something there
might automatically add cc. I found a setting under "copies and folders"
that would "bcc these Email addresses" but I'd think if that were
invoked, we wouldn't see "cc" in the messages. I should mention here
that I am using a relatively old version of Tbird.

The only other thing I considered was return receipts, about which I
know nothing, although I do get some mail that says the sender wishes to
be notified that this message has been read.

I should mention here that I am using a relatively old version of Tbird.

I will try an experiment or two.

Guerri

Jim Hart wrote:
> Dodi:
>
> > Hm. If you direct-reply to a Dixonary message posted by Guerri, does
> SHE get the dupe then?
>
> No, and nor judging by a quick random test do most players. But a test
> reply to (e.g.) Tim B would. And further mystery: sometimes the cc: is
> to dixonary and the individual, sometimes to one or the other.

Guerri Stevens
May 30th, 2012, 07:24 AM
I pressed Ctrl+R to a message posted in the Dixonary Group by Dodi. I am
composing this message in Thunderbird. I see the group as the "to", and
there are no other recipients indicated. I am now hitting "send".

Guerri

Dodi Schultz wrote:
> ...
> Hm. If you direct-reply to a Dixonary message posted by Guerri, does SHE
> get the dupe then?

Guerri Stevens
May 30th, 2012, 07:29 AM
Replying again, but I have changed my tbird settings to automatically
send a BCC to Dodi. As I write this message, I see the Bcc in the list
of recipients. I have not included a quote from Dodi's original message.

Guerri

Tim B
May 30th, 2012, 07:57 AM
I'm using TB, though on this netbook mine is an old version (12.0.1). When I click on Reply, To
shows dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com, and there is no cc. When I click on Reply All, To is as before, and
Cc has the address of the original poster, e.g. Guerri. All that is as it should be.

I suppose it's possible that a new version of TB is doing something different, but it seems
unlikely. It's also possible that Google Groups is putting something in the message headers that is
confusing TB, but I can't see anything amiss.

Best wishes,
Tim Bourne.

Dodi Schultz
May 30th, 2012, 08:19 AM
On 5/30/2012 8:20 AM, Guerri Stevens wrote:
> Do we think this cc business is a Tbird issue or a Google Groups issue?
> At the moment, it is happening to Jim, and it happens when he replies to
> a message posted to the group by Dodi. It doesn't happen when he composes
> a brand new message and it doesn't happen when he replies to a message
> posted to the group by anyone else (me, for instance). Jim, is that a
> correct statement?
>
> If so, it seems unlikely to me that it could be a Google Groups issue.
>
> However, there is a "new" Google Groups. Did you switch to that Jim? Did
> Dodi switch to it?

Dodi plays strictly by e-mail. Dodi hasn't been to the GG site since the
last time we had a messages-not-received problem, way back, and I went to
take a look at threads. I've never actually USED the site.

Dodi Schultz
May 30th, 2012, 08:22 AM
On 5/30/2012 8:57 AM, Tim B wrote:
> I'm using TB, though on this netbook mine is an old version (12.0.1).

Nope, that's the latest version, to which Mozilla has lately been urging me
to upgrade. I'm using 11.0.

Guerri Stevens
May 30th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Tim, I think you have just figured out why Jim's reply (or replies) are
getting that cc: he is using Reply All, not simply "reply".

Having said that, I decided to experiment. Your message, as read in my
ancient version of Tbird (2.0.0.12), has you as the "from", and Dixonary
as the "sender", "reply-to", and "to".

If I hover over "reply all" at the top of the screen, it says "reply to
sender and all recipients". Well, Dixonary is the sender and the only
recipient. If I click "reply all" I get only Dixonary as the "to" in my
reply. Apparently my version of Tbird does not consider the "from" to be
a sender. Or perhaps the actual internal coding set up by the Google
Group doesn't identify the poster of the message as a "sender".

Dodi can experiment with Reply All and see what she gets. Jim has been
playing for awhile, and the CC behavior is new, so maybe he recently
updated Tbird. Maybe I should update too. I keep saying that, and it
keeps not happening <g>.


Guerri

Tim B wrote:
> I'm using TB, though on this netbook mine is an old version (12.0.1).
> When I click on Reply, To shows dixonary (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com, and there is
> no cc. When I click on Reply All, To is as before, and Cc has the
> address of the original poster, e.g. Guerri. All that is as it should be.
> ...

Dodi Schultz
May 30th, 2012, 10:57 AM
On 5/30/2012 9:54 AM, Guerri Stevens wrote:

> Dodi can experiment with Reply All and see what she gets. Jim has been
> playing for awhile, and the CC behavior is new, so maybe he recently
> updated Tbird. Maybe I should update too. I keep saying that, and it
> keeps not happening <g>.

Dodi just did. The header on this message shows I'm sending to Dixonary
with a cc: to Guerri.

Jim Hart
May 30th, 2012, 11:36 PM
This thread has wandered somewhat, so I'm sending this as a reply to my
original message though it mainly addresses the most recent comments from
Guerri and Dodi.

First, my original question was about Thunderbird mail in general, not
about Dixonary messages. The anomolies I mentioned had nothing to do with
Dixonary but I asked the question here knowing there are some friendly
Tbird users. In hindsight it would have made more sense to ask it at a
Thunderbird forum. It hasn't happened again and I"m prepared to accept it
as a random glitch most likely brought on by compacting folders - possibly
I confused it by doing something else at the same time instead of leaving
it alone. I'll be more careful next time.

As for rogue cc: lines in Dixonary postings, that is a completely different
issue and has nothing to do with Thunderbird, at least as far as my own
messages are concerned. I read and write all my Dixonary messages from the
Google groups Dixonary site, and have done so ever since rejoining the game
a few years ago. (What I used to do back in the Tapcis/Compuserve days is
better left to the archaeologists.) For the past few months I've used the
'new' GGroups interface. And for full disclosure, I do also receive the
daily digest of Dixonary messages by email, but that's more by way of
backup and is irrelevant to this discussion.

I know this behaviour seems odd to many other players but that's another
story. The point here is that I don't use Tbird or any other email client
with Dixonary so all those cc: lines are coming from somewhere else. I
start by clicking on 'reply'; there is no 'reply all' option. As I
mentioned yesterday, sometimes there is a default cc: and sometimes there
ain't. Why this should be I cannot fathom, nor do I know if it's a recent
phenomenon, but now that I know I will try to watch out for it. If I forget
and some of you get multiple copies of my pearls you have my permission to
delete them.

Hep this holps.

Jim

Guerri Stevens
May 31st, 2012, 05:06 AM
Yes, the thread has wandered. But I'm glad you somewhat cleared up the
CC issue. At least one other person whose messages included them was
posting directly in the Google Group. So that issue may be with the new
group software.

Guerri

Jim Hart wrote:
> ... The point here is that I don't use Tbird or any other email
> client with Dixonary so all those cc: lines are coming from somewhere
> else. I start by clicking on 'reply'; there is no 'reply all' option.
> As I mentioned yesterday, sometimes there is a default cc: and sometimes
> there ain't. Why this should be I cannot fathom, nor do I know if it's a
> recent phenomenon, but now that I know I will try to watch out for it.
> If I forget and some of you get multiple copies of my pearls you have my
> permission to delete them.

John Barrs
May 31st, 2012, 05:50 AM
Guerri

like Jim, I never use TB for the game and only play by gmail - so if I too
have nbeen snding cc's then it is a newgroups issu. Howver, as no-one has
usggested that I am sending cc and I am using new groups then I don't think
new groups is the issue. - in fact, I can't see how to send a cc without it
being totally obvious (what I mean by that is that I can't see how to have
it set to auto cc)

JohnnyB

On 31 May 2012 11:06, Guerri Stevens <guerri (AT) guerristevens (DOT) com> wrote:

> Yes, the thread has wandered. But I'm glad you somewhat cleared up the CC
> issue. At least one other person whose messages included them was posting
> directly in the Google Group. So that issue may be with the new group
> software.
>
> Guerri
>
> Jim Hart wrote:
>
>> ... The point here is that I don't use Tbird or any other email client
>> with Dixonary so all those cc: lines are coming from somewhere else. I
>> start by clicking on 'reply'; there is no 'reply all' option. As I
>> mentioned yesterday, sometimes there is a default cc: and sometimes there
>> ain't. Why this should be I cannot fathom, nor do I know if it's a recent
>> phenomenon, but now that I know I will try to watch out for it. If I forget
>> and some of you get multiple copies of my pearls you have my permission to
>> delete them.
>>
>
>

Jim Hart
May 31st, 2012, 10:05 PM
Johnny:

> like Jim, I never use TB for the game and only play by gmail -

That sounds like you receive and send all dixonary messages by email
through your gmail account which you access via the gmail site - have I
read that right?

But you also say you are using new groups which suggest us read/write on
the Google Groups Dixonary site.

> I can't see how to send a cc without it being totally obvious (what I
mean by that is that I can't see how to have it set to auto cc)

Normally I'd agree. Most times if I wanted a cc: I'd have to deliberately
click on the little cc link which would bring up the box for entering the
address.However in a few instances when replying to someone a cc line is
there unbidden. Yes it is quite obvious but often I"m just looking at the
box where I am composing by glorious prose and the other stuff may have
scrolled off my screen. Then I hit 'post' and it's gone.

Jim

John Barrs
June 1st, 2012, 04:50 AM
Jim

yes. I only use this email address using google site mail - and yes I use
new groups - including the fact that I am a manager/sysop for the site so
also use new groups for those activities....

except that google has just decided - yesterday and today - that for
management tasks my browser is not modern enough and has reverted to 'old'
with a warning "not much longer" - the browser is OK for ordinary email
reading and writing in new groups (as now) and as the browser is a
completely up-to-date firefox then they are plain wrong === or is this the
begining of an 'only chrome will do for management' phase of unexplained
changes?

JohnnyB

On 1 June 2012 04:05, Jim Hart <jfshart (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Johnny:
>
>
> > like Jim, I never use TB for the game and only play by gmail -
>
> That sounds like you receive and send all dixonary messages by email
> through your gmail account which you access via the gmail site - have I
> read that right?
>
> But you also say you are using new groups which suggest us read/write on
> the Google Groups Dixonary site.
>
> > I can't see how to send a cc without it being totally obvious (what I
> mean by that is that I can't see how to have it set to auto cc)
>
> Normally I'd agree. Most times if I wanted a cc: I'd have to deliberately
> click on the little cc link which would bring up the box for entering the
> address.However in a few instances when replying to someone a cc line is
> there unbidden. Yes it is quite obvious but often I"m just looking at the
> box where I am composing by glorious prose and the other stuff may have
> scrolled off my screen. Then I hit 'post' and it's gone.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>

Tim Lodge
June 1st, 2012, 06:02 AM
Johnny

> except that google has just decided - yesterday and today - that for
> management tasks my browser is not modern enough and has reverted to 'old'
> with a warning "not much longer" - the browser is OK for ordinary email
> reading and writing in new groups (as now) and as the browser is a
> completely up-to-date firefox then they are plain wrong === or is this the
> begining of an 'only chrome will do for management' phase of unexplained
> changes?

I was getting the same red background warning for the last couple of
day, even though Firefox tells me that it is bang up to date. It was
still there initially when I visited the group this morning, but now
that I've visited a few pages, it has reverted to the standard blue
background warning about old groups disappearing soon, with no mention
of browser deficiencies. Could it be that Google has fixed something?

-- Tim L

Guerri Stevens
June 1st, 2012, 06:47 AM
Johnny, you are not sending CCs. Two people who are (or were) both were
playing directly at the Google Groups Dixonary site, whereas you are
playing by Email, albeit Google's Email.

There was one person, Scott (?) who was NOT playing at the Dixonary site
and who had a CC in at least one message.

Guerri

John Barrs wrote:
> Guerri
>
> like Jim, I never use TB for the game and only play by gmail - so if I
> too have nbeen snding cc's then it is a newgroups issu. Howver, as
> no-one has usggested that I am sending cc and I am using new groups then
> I don't think new groups is the issue. - in fact, I can't see how to
> send a cc without it being totally obvious (what I mean by that is that
> I can't see how to have it set to auto cc)

John Barrs
June 1st, 2012, 09:31 AM
Tim

I am wary of Google fixes -- rule one - if it ain't broke don't fix it

JohnnyB

On 1 June 2012 12:02, Tim Lodge <5sfwiyj02 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com> wrote:

> Johnny
>
> > except that google has just decided - yesterday and today - that for
> > management tasks my browser is not modern enough and has reverted to
> 'old'
> > with a warning "not much longer" - the browser is OK for ordinary email
> > reading and writing in new groups (as now) and as the browser is a
> > completely up-to-date firefox then they are plain wrong === or is this
> the
> > begining of an 'only chrome will do for management' phase of unexplained
> > changes?
>
> I was getting the same red background warning for the last couple of
> day, even though Firefox tells me that it is bang up to date. It was
> still there initially when I visited the group this morning, but now
> that I've visited a few pages, it has reverted to the standard blue
> background warning about old groups disappearing soon, with no mention
> of browser deficiencies. Could it be that Google has fixed something?
>
> -- Tim L

dgermann
June 2nd, 2012, 01:14 PM
Hi friends--

This is a long thread and I have not read all posts in detail, so if what I am about to suggest has already been suggested, please forgive me.

The first post asks about indexing problems. I have had what I take to be indexing problems since I have been using Tbird (about 3 months).

I discovered this (in the Linux version): I go to the folder with the problems (often, messages in imap disappear, or after deletion appear again), right click on the name of the folder (in this case, inbox), click on properties, click on "Repair Folder."

This solves it for me. Might have to do it several times.

HTH.